Could Pearl Harbor have been prevented?

>mfw Filipino-American.
>mfw the Bataan Death March anniversary is celebrated with the Bataan Fun Run.

Would've raised too many eyebrows

Butall you may have needed to do would be to avert the "mistakes" of the radarcrew missing the incoming Japanese planes or the men discovering the Japanese Subs.

youtube.com/watch?v=Nnbm_eELv1I

>japan attacks USA
>a country several times it's size with a bigger industrial base and population.

Japan was retarded

Literally how?

Is that fair dinkum?

they knew from the very start of the war they would lose, they simply hoped the US would get war weary and make peace before they got fucked up too badly

...what would the actual use of that have been? would it have helped their original problem somehow?

They wanted to take the European colonies in southeast Asia, but couldn't without fighting the US because the US would get involved over the Philippines. The hope was that the USA wouldn't care enough about saving euro colonial possessions to fully mobilize and finish them off.

kek

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Why do Japanese nationalists seem to almost worship Pearl Harbor? It makes no sense to me.
>tfw you punch someone in the back of the head and they proceed to beat you into a bloody pulp but you're still the mighty and powerful one because you got a single hit in

Was the Philippines even strategically important for the Americans?

>Large land mass in the middle of the South China Sea
Are you kidding me? Because the Philippines is very strategically important, the United States makes sure to keep a very healthy military relationship with them. This includes renting out naval bases and performing mixed military exercises. Well, it has been very healthy, until recently anyway, with the breakdown of relations surrounding Duterte's leadership.

Yes, by shooting down all the airplanes.

Are you retarded?

they should have never gave it up. an entire U.S state in Asia,able to project the American military might and also acts as a natural barrier against China.

It's also pretty much in the middle of east and southeast Asia,you can attack Vietnam,China,Japan,Indonesia,etc if you want to

>they should have never gave it up. an entire U.S state in Asia,able to project the American military might and also acts as a natural barrier against China.

Wasn't really going to happen due to the combo of Philippine Nationalism, the Great Depression BTFOing American farmers, but not Philippine ones, to whom American farmers felt threatened, and also American factions like the Anti-Imperialist League thinking that they're betraying their founding principles by having a colony, nor Protestant Fundies who thought the last thing America needs after all those fucking Irishmen are millions of Asian Catholics, and finally white supremacists who also think that America shouldn't make citizens out of millions of Flips.

what could possibly go wrong?

I mean, we made Hawaii into a state, and people talk about making Puerto Rico into a state, so it's not like it's outside the range of possibility. The Philippines are an archipelago anyway, so it's possible that we could have kept just one island. But none of our other colonial possessions had quite the population of the Philippines, and we shouldn't forget that we've released even less populous (and still strategic) nations, like the Marshall islands.

Releasing a nation while keeping favorable military alliances is a good middle ground. Don't have to deal with separatist screeching, liberal screeching, international diplomatic screeching, etc. at the expense of some tax income, but still get to keep the geopolitical advantage of having colonies all around the world.

That is, until you get a leader like Duterte that has his own plans.

>that file name

>Then deailing to deal a crippling blow to the Japanese fleet with their evacuated carriers

They did, at Midway, only six months later, after luring the Japanese carriers away from their battle fleet.

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Why would you wait six unpredictable months before dealing your blow to the Japanese forces when you may do it on day one?

>Why would you wait six unpredictable months before dealing your blow to the Japanese forces when you may do it on day one?

Because this is a real war, not your retarded fantasy.

Gotta have the self defence excuse in order to make it justifiable homicide.

>Real war is none in an enormous conspiracy leaking the beans about letting the enemy kill 3000 of your men without as much as fighting back
Sure pal

Why prevent it if you could just make it even better?

1) Kick Nagumo out of command, he is a battleship advocate not a carrier kind of guy. Put someone else in his place, someone who won't give the order to retreat before sending the final wave.
2)The Japanese knew the location of American ships prior to the attack, and Pearl Harbor base did not know of the incoming Japanese attack. Thus they should have taken the opportunity to make Pearl Harbor a night time attack. The night would cover the Japanese planes, Americans would take longer to react, and the damage would be more massive.
3) While they were at it, why did it have to stop at the air attack? The Combined Fleet had plenty of battleships, cruisers and destroyers. After the initial air attack, they could have sent battleships, cruisers and destroyers to finish off the remnants of the fleet, and maybe find the carriers as well.

Just these three things would have turned Pearl Harbor from a "strategic disaster" to "strategic miracle".

2400*

>150+ carrier based planes in a never-been-done-before night time carrier strike on a pacific island.
>Landing, refueling and rearming for three waves

user pls, the mental image makes me giggle

Because Pearl Harbor stretched the limits of Japanese maritime logistics.

You basically may as well ask why the Japanese didn't have the Pearl Harbor attack coordinate with a full-scale Japanese invasion of the Hawaiian Islands.

>Landing, refueling and rearming for three waves
Take turns. Send in the original two waves, then send the surface combat detachment. While the battleships are sinking what is left of the US Pacific fleet, the carriers are preparing the third wave to bombard the docks, oil fields, anything the battleships didn't destroy.
>Because Pearl Harbor stretched the limits of Japanese maritime logistics.
Wrong. This is absurd. They had crossed thousands of miles of ocean in radio silence to get to the island, why not stiff a few more hundred miles to actually get there and sweep the wreckage after the aerial attack? Even if they were at the limit of their fuel, a tanker would be enough to do the job.
>You basically may as well ask why the Japanese didn't have the Pearl Harbor attack coordinate with a full-scale Japanese invasion of the Hawaiian Islands
Completely different operation which would have a completely different goal. Suggestions were made to improve the Pearl Harbor Plan without changing its fundamental nature (neutralizing the US Pacific Fleet), not some alternate history fantasy where Japan annexes California. Simply attacking the Harbor at night, sending in the surface combat vessels into the Harbor, among a few other things, is not anymore fantastic than what was actually done.

>Bataan fun-run

Holy shit, pics or you are lying, that is too funny to be true

>Even if they were at the limit of their fuel, a tanker would be enough to do the job.
You realize they had to bring eight of those along already, right?

That said, sending an additional wave would probably have been prudent, but would unlikely have been effective given the Japanese goals for the operation. The ships should not have been the real goal, and battleships should not have been prioritized over carriers; if anything, logistics and support buildings should have been the real target. Destroying Pearl Harbor the naval facility would've done far more to cripple the range of the American Pacific fleet than to destroy every last ship in Pearl Harbor.

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>You realize they had to bring eight of those along already, right?
Yes, they would need what, 2 more at best?
I would go as far as saying they spent a disproportional amount of resources hitting secondary targets like Wake. In hindsight, some of the resources spent on those smaller islands that are farther away from America would have done more proportional damage if used on Pearl.

ultra kek

They hoped Roosevelt would be like a Justin Trudeau. They hoped wrong.
They hoped a quick attack would demoralize the Allies in the Pacific. They hoped wrong.

Japan now took that role.

Mother of god.

>r, after luring the Japanese carriers away from their battle fleet.
Carriers were not "lured" away. They were meant to operate as a vanguard destroying the US carriers, after which the battleship fleet would sweep up the remnants.

>The ships should not have been the real goal, and battleships should not have been prioritized over carriers; if anything, logistics and support buildings should have been the real target

Do you think the fact that Japan didn't participate (for realz) in WW1 had something to do with that mistake?

Sending surface vessels straight into coastal artillery and mines is pretty fantastic.

Japan's war goal was to capture the Philippines.

>maybe find the carriers as well
I don't think you have any idea just how big the Pacific ocean is.

if you go to pearl harbor today they have a big picture up on a wall of joint US and Japanese naval exercises with the caption forgive but never forget

Why

Why is this allowed?

The loss of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse shortly after Pearl Harbor had a more demoralizing effect than the harbor attack. Nobody expected for a battleship and a battle-cruiser to be overwhelmed by Japanese aircraft so easily. Even the Japanese were kind of shocked at how easy it was.

I'm a Filipino but I've never heard of this kek

thumbnail looks like a llama

Specifically like a llama piñata.

How would it raise eyebrows?

>We had unconfirmed intelligence that the Japanese were planning an attack. We made preparations, but it was too little too late
Done.

You literally don't even need to let the attack happen, the US completely flipped from anti-war to pro-war over the Zimmerman telegram. Showing proof of an actual Japanese attack on the US being planned would of been enough.

>Destroying Pearl Harbor the naval facility would've done far more to cripple the range of the American Pacific fleet than to destroy every last ship in Pearl Harbor.
The odds of successfully pulling this off, even if focused on the task, are miniscule. Enormously heavy bombing raids by the British on occupied French ports in the ETO, which had the advantages of being able to drop far more tonnage of explosives and to do so repeatedly, only very rarely knocked naval facilities out for very long. The notion that a three wave CVP strike followed up with some battleship shelling could do better is hard to swallow.

Amelia Air Heart was a Japanese spy and is solely responsible for Pearl Harbour

Is that SZS?
>History channel
As if it couldn't get any funnier, lel.