Ancient Egypt

nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

When talking about ancient Egypt, it must be understood that it is more expansive than it's British assigned modern borders, and in the ancient context extends well into Sudan and arguably further.

Not really, the histories of Upper and Lower Egypt diverge drastically and early, the drying of the Sahara really took a toll on the region

If you read the study you'd know that all those sampled were from Faiyum, in Lower Egypt. Obviously Ethiopids would be found in Upper Egypt if they were to be found at all.

Ancient Egyptian culture has its roots in upper Egypt/lush via the nabta playa archeological site.

By the 6th millennium BC, evidence of a prehistoric religion or cult appears, with a number of sacrificed cattle buried in stone-roofed chambers lined with clay.[2] It has been suggested that the associated cattle cult indicated in Nabta Playa marks an early evolution of Ancient Egypt's Hathor cult. For example, Hathor was worshipped as a nighttime protector in desert regions (see Serabit el-Khadim). To directly quote professors Wendorf and Schild:[2]

Also Greek historians said Egyptians were Ethiopian colonists. The Egyptians themselves also said their roots were in the south.

IMO they would have been ethnically similar.
A lot more research is necessary though I don't deny that.
I think Ethiopians can be forgotten though. They are just way too SSA.

>SSA
>Doesn't realize how young the Sahara desert is.

Notice how half of these "Nubians" are the same color as the Egyptian.

Possibly
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjay

There has never been a wall between upper and lower Egypt, so given that there was no natural boundaries they would have blended seamlessly.

Beja people are an Ethiopid people that are native to Egypt, for example. Very possible they played some part in ancient times.

2/3 of Ethiopians have Aethio-Congoloid maternal lines.
99% of Ancient Egyptians had M/N derived maternal lines.
It seems insane to think that such a heavily Aethio-Congoloid people could have lived so close a purely Near Eastern one and even shared the same culture.

Most likely they are
1. not genetically analogous to heavily SSA Ethiopians despite superficial similarities
2. mixed with SSA people in the last 2000 years
3. not even native to their region

Distance my man, distance in the 1,000s of miles

The only thing that is insane is that people are taking those ancient samples from immigrants to Egypt all from one site as legit science and proof about all Egyptians. How come older mummies aren't used for the DNA basis? There is a ton of problems with the "study" that some people want to cite. It essentially confirmation bias trying to masquerade as science, and it is want some people want to believe so they are not looking at it objectively.

And development all along that distance. Lower and upper Egypt aren't single points.

Don't worry the Kangz will be tested eventually.
You'll be disappointed though.

SHILL

medjay were a small tribe that used to raid the civilisation that was already there long beffore they lived in it

go suck ubisofts cock you armchair historian

The two halves of Egypt border each other.

SHILL !

Medjay were a small tribe that used to raid the civilisation that was already there long before they lived in it

go suck ubisofts cock you armchair historian

Not him but excellent argumentation technique you absolute sperg

There were, sure, but given the time it took to travel the river over time disparate cultures rose over time and there's a reason the main empires rose in lower egypt.

I don't personally care, but it is crazy that given all the archeological evidence linking ancient Egypt with other Nile cultures, an odd agenda is still vehemently pushed.

Did you consider that your entire perspective on the subject is completely distorted by your racial bias?
There's no odd agenda, nobody's trying to take away Ancient Egypt from Black people as it was never theirs to begin with. Afrocentrists have always been a joke.

HAHAAH argument technique?

does change the fact I am right?

no?

Then fuck off

All evidence points to Egypt developing from south to north on a continume following the flow of the Nile. Human migration patterns alone would dictate that.

The migration pattern was from Near East to North Africa.

I never even mentioned race. I'm in no way an Afrocentric, but the way that Egyptians portrayed themselves looks clearly like upper Egyptians and Ethiopic. That is just an objective observation that one must be blind not to see.

That coupled with the archeological and written records stating that Egyptians were Ethiopian colonists do not coincide with this new "study" that is being paraded around as the end all be all for some odd reason.

I think it is you they may need to examine your racial bias.

That implies humans skipped Egypt left it uninhabited, then double backed.

Well Ethiopians have predominant Caucasoid influence but genetically they are still highly Paleo-African. I think you're imagining things though when you say they depicted themselves as Ethiopian looking.

This is false refer to here

Where do the Egyptians "say" they're from the south?.Youve ducked this question in the past 10 threads youve made.You Down syndromed sperg

>I think you're imagining things though when you say they depicted themselves as Ethiopian looking.
I wouldn't say "Ethiopian-looking" (which Ethiopians are we talking about?) but a lot of modern ethnic groups in Sudan and neighboring countries sure look awfully similar to Egyptian kangz as they were depicted.

>wow a sculpt with blue eyes from 5000 bc
>they must have been swedes
I get it you're """trolling""" but you're just humiliating yourself now

t.severe autism

Well, there was a Kushite Dynasty.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt
>The 25th dynasty was a line of rulers originating in the Nubian Kingdom of Kush – in present-day northern Sudan and southern Egypt – and most saw Napata as their spiritual homeland. They reigned in part or all of Ancient Egypt from 760–656 BC.[1] The dynasty began with Kashta's invasion of Upper Egypt and culminated in several years of both successful and unsuccessful war with the Mesopotamian based Assyrian Empire. The 25th Dynasty's reunification of Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt, and also Kush (Nubia) created the largest Egyptian empire since the New Kingdom. They assimilated into society by reaffirming Ancient Egyptian religious traditions, temples, and artistic forms, while introducing some unique aspects of Kushite culture.[2] It was during the 25th dynasty that the Nile valley saw the first widespread construction of pyramids (many in modern Sudan) since the Middle Kingdom.

So yeah, they wuz. And only them among the black Africans.

Pretty much the only thing notable about them is taking Egyptian Culture to asll of Nubia, and beating the shit out of Assyrian invasion attempts.

>human derive from Africa"""
>melanin""
>muh white devils"

Meant for

>implying half of Subsaharan Africa doesn't consider the other half blacker than they are while also laughing at the disgusting pink/pale-faces to the North

those are assyrians, they were always painted as verry white, now look up paintings with black people and you'll see the differance

Yoruba have nothing to do with the genetic reality you can see here

>those are assyrians, they were always painted as verry white
gee I wonder why those olive-skinned/light brown semitic people were consistently portrayed much whiter than Egyptians, it's almost like there were different skin shades

You're legally retarded

Oh shit, I must concede

In the Rosetta Stone translation they say they came from the Ethiopian highlands

yeah

not racially but definitely culturally. It was Egyptian expansion that led them from tribalism towards kingdom, and they learned engineering from Egyptians.

They weren't ancient egyptians proper, but they were basically sister cultures for a while.

I swear, Ethiopians are their own thing.

The expansion happened from south to north according to all ancient documentation. Although there were invasions from the north. Egyptians themselves have their roots in upper Egypt(Nubia) Sudan and Ethiopia this is very well documented.

proofs

gut tells me you are confusing OP's cushites with just egyptians form the sother part of the empire.

Irrelevant,Rosetta stone was 196 bc
You're retarded

Greek historians Herodotus and diodorus claimed that ancient Egyptians were Ethiopian colonists. Then you have the Egyptians themselves saying they were from he Ethiopian highlands via the Rosetta Stone translation. Then you have nabta playa. Then you have the elephant in the room of how they depicted themselves. There is literally a mountain of evidence.

There is no physical barrier to seperate Egyptians racially. They were likely racially diverse and on a spectrum, but Nubians were not a completely seperate and distinct people from them anymore than Sicilians are seperate and distinct from Italians.

I'm tired of beating this dead horse.

Why is this such a problem and a big deal? Because of something called Denialism. Denialism is when someone sees a irrefutable truth, but it makes them uncomfortable/hurts them/brings them pain, so they openly deny it. This is the equivalent of looking at a frog and screaming it’s a horse. Because frogs upset you.
Egyptians being categorically "black" or not IndoEuropean in any way is a taboo. It’s a personal issue, and a outrage that many people, whether right or wrong, have not dealt with. It’s like saying “Did Jesus drink alcohol?” If there was a Jesus, and we approach this completely neutral and with scientific thinking, we use probability and possibility. The simple answer is, he most likely did. But if you ask this, you will find a seething wave of people screaming he did not, or that he never existed. Because Jesus drinking alcohol, or any chance he existed, is a uncomfortable truth that brings them pain, and so instead of seeking a neutral, fair and legitimate answer, they will scream and argue otherwise, to make themselves comfortable.

The (un)comfortable truth here is that the Black Egypt hypothesis is motivated by racial hatred towards non-Sub Saharan people.

The artwork, documentation, and archeology says otherwise. The fact that misleading or outright unscientific DNA studies are trotted out to try to whitewash ancient Egyptians corroborates this.

Cushitic =/= "Ethiopian"

There are like 80+ ethnic groups in Ethiopia user.

>genetics isn't real muh feels are

This. But there are also some Pharaohs with strong African features.

>statue's features suffer from erosion
>THIS MEANS WE WUZ KANGZ AND SHIT
Why are negroids so retarded?

It's not that genetics are not real, but the "studies" that are being used to form the basis of ancient Egyptians are laughably flawed. In one of them sub-Saharan is defined as the absence of a certain trait, which would essentially render black Americans also not Subsaharan. In another one all the samples come from a single site in lower Egypt.

>genetics are really even if the "studies" are some cherry picked posts on stormfront
Post a peer reviewed study claiming Egyps were white. Just one.

>the nose is the result of erosion
>erosion
>in Egypt
>in secluded tombs

There are countless statues with "black" features, some are even colored, and are the same color as upper Egyptians.

They weren't white. They were genetically Near Eastern.

>genetically Near Eastern
What does that even mean? Also post some fucking proof for a reliable source already.

Egyptians were not near eastern they were Nilo/East African. Near easterners were near eastern, they weren't Egyptian.

nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

>Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History

It would be hard to imagine a more reliable source.

Although there was a northern component to ancient Egypt from very early on due to invasive forces.

This is the "study" where all the samples come from a single new kingdom lower Egypt gravesite.

Nobody says Egyptians were white you fucking retard.

>Civilization history spam thousand of years
>country was at the crossroad of multiple other civilization
>hurr it's impossible that one pharaoh once took a nubian pricess as one of his concubine and got a son with sub-saharian african feature
I imagine in 3000 years, if humanity still exist people would shitpost the same way about the USA, with people posting photo of Obama and other people shitposting about "we wuz freedom and shit"

Over a span of 1300 years with not a single individual having meaningful SSA admixture. It's fairly close to the center of the country. Shedet/Crocodilopolis was a very imporant place for Ancient Egyptians.

The issue is with the Nilo origins of ancient Egyptian culture and people being intentionally shifted northward and attributed to a completely different "whiter" people.

>after 1500 BC
This is not the time we are talking about, are we? The pyramids were constructed 1000 years earlier. Also the connection with Europeans/Near Easterners point to a relationship in neolithic times; not a relation in 1500 BC or today. So yeah, good stuff but the study doesn't say what you think it says

And yet, some retard responded with a study. Funny, innit?

Subsaharan is a flawed modern concept. The Sahara did not exist in its modern incarnation at that time. Also they define Subsaharan as the absence of a trait, which would essentially render black Americans also not Subsaharan per the "study". And lastly ethnically exclusive gravesite shave never been uncommon. Also they would still be categorically black via the one drop rule, he US sets the race policy the rest of the world follows. Then when the artwork, archeology, cultural continuity, and modern Egyptian genetics are taken into consideration there are simply far too many discrepancies to be ignored.

>he US sets the race policy the rest of the world follows
The rest of the world mostly don't care.

>Also they would still be categorically black via the one drop rule, he US sets the race policy the rest of the world follows.
American Education at it's best.

it's almost like you are saying that Blackness is a contemporary and historically contingent concept. Be careful you gonna trigger a lot of wiki-warriors.

Yes they do. Blacks the world over get called "African-Americans".

Is this legit? I'd be interested

Yes it is all legit.

No one but some stupid black twitter activists cares about the Black Egypt thing. This is also the reason there are no proper studies or papers on it. Alt-right faggots though, they look at the most extreme fringes of a "movement" and claim this is the mainstream. In this case they even go so far as saying that academia teaches "we wuz". It's literally the opposite of high level discourse. I mean this thread is shite for example but it's fun and enlightening when we talk about about studies, gravesides, definitions etc. At least this is fun to me. When people post racist cartoons, /pol/-macros and arbitrary wiki-quotes it's shit posting par excellence. Pol/fags/ don't know the difference between those two tho.

Except that's wrong.

It is.

It's wrong but true.

>Ethiopian colonists
Surely you know that Ethiopian didn't mean modern day Ethiopian at this time. I'm that Ethiopian posted who is tired of seeing your ethiocentric shit dude. Stop trying to shoehorn us into Egypt. At best, we are relatives. The way you did that sleight of hand with the word "Ethiopian" just now proves you are less than objective.

To be fair, these results do actually suggest that there was recent gene flow from the Near East by the Pre-Ptolemaic period.
However this isn't proof or even suggestive that 1000 years earlier the people were anything like East Africans which is an incredibly dumb belief to have.
Ethiopians and Somalis are largely a mixture of Middle Eastern men and local Paleo-African women.
These Paleo-African types didn't extend all the way to the Mediterranean or anywhere near it.

It really isn't. Even blacks in Africa emulate African American culture and call each other nigger. Call it cultural imperialism or not ( i wouldn't) but American culture radiates on every nation on this planet except North Korea. This is pretty much the only thing you guys still produce and export.

Also in academia the discourse is dominated by Anglo notions of race.

>these results do actually suggest that there was recent gene flow from the Near East by the Pre-Ptolemaic period.
Yeah, that's why the study is interesting and I learnt something.

How does that change anything? Ethiopia is still somewhere south of Egypt, on south-east. But I can't see why this has any bearing except if you mean that modern Ethiopians have nothing to with it.