Is math discovered or invented?

Is math discovered or invented?

Math is simply an abstract language.

Invented. There aren't set values, but only means of measuring things.

Maths is by and large the result of the ability to measure things.

Math and Language(words and symbols) are metaphysical concepts.

It was invented in Egypt by the mighty KANGZ of old.

Discovered. Until invented-fags can invent their own alternative maths that let them build a network of computers to communicate their argument through they can fuck off.

>Invented
You contradicted yourself right after with
>but only means of measuring things.
that's literally a discovery. To measure something is not to create result, but to discover it.

Algebra is an invention, it's the human language of math. But the OP didn't ask if Algebra was invented, did he?

But these concepts are linked to any object or entity. There is no source code of universe. They were invented and exist only in human mind.

Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't change the nature of mathematics.

>Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world.
It's not a random accident that's true. Mathematics are discovered on the basis of logical consistency. If someone tried to 'invent' some new mathematics that weren't logically consistent then it'd be found out sooner or later that this someone was wrong and their non-maths wouldn't be useful in describing reality.

This.

Even if the human race went extinct, if, on some corner of the universe, an intelligent race of beings came into existence, if they were to draw a plane figure with three sides (on a plane surface), the sum of the internal angles of said figure would be equal to two right angles; and the ratio between the diameter and the circumference of a circle would always be pi, no matter where and when in the universe. Eventually said intelligent race would discover all laws of mathematics all over again the same way we have.

These are not invented, or agreed upon by some political body that can interpret and distort it at will, according to the dominant ideology of the day (and this probably triggers the humanities sophomore deeply). They are discovered.

> Assuming a shape's identity based on angles.

Spotted the cis white male.

Check your euclidean privilege.

Lmao

Math is a game of symbol manipulation, the rules (axioms) are created, the behavior of those rules is discovered.

An invention is just discovering something useful. It's a semantic quirk of the English language.

Both. We discover truths about our invented symbols that are slabstractions of real things.

My shit is consistent, there is no reason to think it should be useful. We only wouldn't be having this convo if math wasn't.

But than again that's a consqeunce, not a reason. There are no right angles in nature. Only the geometry of space can be approximated in language of euclidean geometry and once you want to go beyond naive approach to math you have to rigorously define and invent your theory THAT is useful to description of world, not the other way a around. Or it doesn't have to be useful, it may describe concepts that have no analogy anywhere. It can take someone else 100 years to find some new implications of your invention you weren't aware about at all, it doesn't change anything.

Every invention is discovered. It was possible to make cars in 1000bc, the system of parts and processes that make a car run was objectively still available. It just wasn't discovered by man yet.

>literally nobody mentions Gödel's Incompleteness

Obviously mathematics is invented.

Gödel proved there are true and unprovable statements, not that mathematics is invented.

It's a bit of both.

Axioms are defined. The consequences they imply are discovered.

>implying mathematical statements aren't invented

please go play somewhere while adults talk

yep, and that invalidates a notion of some singular mathematics that can be discovered by its virtue of logical consistency.

Godel thought exactly the opposite of what you stated.

The invention is the symbols and systems we use to discover math. Anyone who claims mathematics itself is "invented" is brain dead.

/thread

>Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world.

So is language. Do you think language is invented or discovered?

Natural languages are absolute garbage at describing the physical world. Try having physics or chemistry with nothing but English to work with, you won't get very far.

What a totally moronic thing to say. Literally anything you can express in one language, you can translate to another. This includes from the language of mathematics to any natural language.

>Literally anything you can express in one language, you can translate to another.
A) No. and B) Even if you could it won't be helpful if it requires a trillion more symbols to express the same thing completely. If English were really fine for formal use we wouldn't need mathematics.

So what you're saying is, a language carefully designed to describe phenomena as efficiently as possible is more efficient at doing so than a language not designed for that? Go fuck yourself, moron.

I'm saying you can't just make up shit and have it be the same as actual mathematics. And you literally couldn't 'translate' maths into a natural language regardless because natural language doesn't have formal definitions for its terms. That's why you can't program a computer by writing in regular English what you'd like it to do. Natural language is slippery bullshit.

Mathematics is not a language, you absolute fucking dunce. It's an field of knowledge!

You're a fucking cretin.

I like you.

holy fuck who cares, this is Veeky Forums shit not history nor humanities shit. fuck off.

Discovered. If it were invented, then we would be able to change its logic.

>if steam engine were invented we would be able to change its logic

Invented. Physics is applied Math and you can make discoveries in Physics.

>philosphy of math isn't humanities

And is an abstract language invented or discovered? :p

(You)'re quite amusing user :).

Math is analytical metaphysics. You're just engineers of the mind. The best engineers mind you, but engineers none the less.

>analytical metaphysics
these words literally don't mean anything

...

>these words literally don't mean anything

Woooooosh.

You're not even wrong.

Invented

Isn't an invention a discovery as well?

philosophy of math is to math what scientology is to science

Math is about discovering the properties of abstract (invented) systems.

So both in a way, though the invention of different systems is only interesting so far as there are interesting things to discover about them.

It's innate.

You discover within an invented set of axioms.

It's discovered.
A mathmatician only examines the possible relations of the forms of every thinkable axiom, and the possibilities were always existing (I think).

You can change a steam engine and you can change the superficial culture specific ways of interacting with mathematical reality. You can't change physics and you can't change mathematical reality.

Invented.

Mathematicians will find some mathematical phenomenon or method that won't have any use, and then years if not decades later scientists will find a use for it within the observable world.