Why should the oldest son inherit, and not the best-fitted son? The crown will suit him better...

See also: the entire Wars of the Roses

nobody wants a faggot on the throne

Go away David.

>remember when your older brother beat the fuck out of you at the bus stop?

No, I'm taller and stronger than him

How would you judge who is the bes fitted?

>this level of projecting

Traditionally civil war

Fuck off Weiss

At least 5 different characters say the same thing about Renly. He's pretty, he knows how to dress and how to be popular but he has zero actual understanding of ruling. The crown was just another fancy costume to him.

Brienne loved him because she was a romantic and he was the picture perfect, noble king to her naive eyes.

At least he's not an autistic muslim like Stannis.

Stannis isn't even zealot

Goddamn it Weiss i thought we told you to fuck off

>t. butthurt Tyrell

You mean Loras?

...

Who does Veeky Forums support

Why should the kings son inherit the throne? Shouldn't the best fitted man in the kingdom be chosen?

Why not a robot king? We have the technology

Stannis. The choice is obvious, really.

Stannis. Jephthah wins over Whore of Babylon every time

what, no he isn't

not by a long shot

>retarded zealot who burned his own daughter at the stake
vs
>retarded megalomaniac who burns everyone at the stake
can I pick neither?

>Every son will claim to be the best, and that's how you get inheritance wars
But what if you had a system where only sons with the genius trait are qualified

>show
>canon

Stannisfags BTFO

YAAAS QUEEN SLAY

dany tearing down stannis' nazi banner was the highlight of the premiere for sure

It was a pretty standard practice for a Roman emperor to "adopt" an heir from outside his family if he didn't have any sons of his own, or if he suspected that his actual son was going to be a rotten egg who would ruin everything. In practice though, most emperors tended to be heavily biased towards their own children for obvious reasons, but there were a surprisingly large number of exceptions to this as well. Being the eldest son of a Roman emperor did not necessarily guarantee that you'd inherit the title upon his death. It just made you the most likely candidate.

In the case of Augustus, the first emperor who set the standard for the rest to follow, he adopted the Roman General Tiberius as his "son" for the purpose of naming Tiberius as the proper heir to the title of Emperor.

That scene was like a final fuck you from D&D themselves to all the Stannis fanboys.

Childhood is choosing primogeniture
Adulthood is realizing gavelkind is the best system

>retarded zealot
He was desperate.

Seems like a surefire way to set up a civil war.

Right makes right. And Renly was Mighty

Man I just fucking hope Martin ending for a song ice and fire ends with Stannis winning

as are all zealots

>showfags

I read the first book, generally I enjoyed it but it was so bloated I couldn't stomach reading any more.

sure worked great for the frankish empire

The show was such a bad fanfic that it was harder to sit and watch further than the first season that it was reading Martin...

He fucking isn't. Also he wasn't just his little brother, he was a bastard.

Am I the only one who thinks that the title of Khaalesi should've been removed from the show? I swear half of the "fans" still believe it's her fucking name.

>implying westerosi shrikfags don't need to be civilized by monotheism

No. Its just shows how retarded danyfags are

Why wasn't the choice of heir left to the current ruling king? That way he could've picked whoever he thought was best, it sure seems better than letting fate decide or letting them fight and ruin the kingdom.

Also everyone in Westeros is shit at ruling, the only people who got it and weren't pretentious/idiotic shits were Tywin, Tyrion and Roose(to an extent)

That makes practical sense if and only if there is an established order for line of succession as a backup, in case no heir is appointed. Even still, I can imagine problems with disputed appointments. "He appointed me right before he died, I swear! These suddenly wealthy witnesses all agree!" Plus, it could make people doubt the legitimacy of the "divine right" in the first place, if somebody can just be chosen on a whim. And what if some senile king appoints his dog or something?

Stannis is legitimately the best choice for king. That's the entire point of his character. He's not the most popular, he's not the best looking, he's not the brave warrior king.

But he is the most effective administrator after Tywin. He has a sense of justice, duty, pragmatism, and is an experienced ruler and commander. Then through his time with Davos he learns how to compromise and meet in the middle.

Having a civil war every time the ruler of your country dies is generally not good for a nation.

my 5th sons iq is 50 lol rip

>Tyrion
>Good at ruling
Not really. The one time he had actual executive power, he spent a whole book weakening the government by playing Spy vs. Spy with his sister. Which isn't too say she's not also to blame, but Tyrion isn't shown to be a particularly good ruler

I must add Balon Greyjoy to that list.

Yeah, I know what you are all thinking "that guy is just a pirate who leads failed rebellions and loses sons" and you are right, but he obviously an amazing administrator too.

He lost a war in which his lands were ravaged and his fleet destroyed. Despite that in like a decade the Iron Islands have their migthy fleets back, the wooden structures of Theon´s memories are substituted by stone buildings, and he goes back to home in a merchant ship that show us that trade is flourishing.

In the meantime, Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon despite ruling during the Long Summer and having just fought a brief and victorious war (in which we can assume that reparations from the Iron Islands were demanded) managed to almost bankrupt the Seven Realms.

I don´t think that GRRM purposely intended to make Balon a great administrattor, but he did. He would make a great Master of Coin.

Robert and Jon didn't really bankrupt the realm. Littlefinger took an massive amounts of debt to stimulate the economy, quite successfully. Now, it's also quite likely that he was skimming huge amounts of money off the top of the Treasury, but the government's debt/income ratio was sound. The problem is that no one else in the realm has any idea how capitalism works (Which makes sense, since they're all feudal lords). So once Baelish was out of the picture, the whole thing came crashing down, because Tywin and Ceresi are about as good as managing money as they are at parenting

Well, Cersei began the building of a royal fleet that seems to have been neglected for awhile. Which is pretty important once you realize that the all Westerosi fleets (or the relevant ones at least) except for the royal one are in the other side of the continent.

What we know about the debt is that as you noted everything in the royal Court depends on a single man´s investments, a man could very likely be scheming to his own gains.

And Tywin leds not only a House famous for her gold mines but that has a city renowed for it´s artisans and with a better watch than the capital itself. I dont think that that´s all thanks to Tywin, but he knew how not to ruin it. And we are told that when he was Hand of the King the treasury was full. So he is at least competent.

>follow a retarded zealot who used black magic to murder his own brother instead of doing it himself

Only children are the best children.
Eldest sons are the best children, if there are siblings.

I shouldn't be surprised that a generation who thinks women can have dicks doesn't know basic facts about humanity.

Only Children are autistic weirdos most of the time. Eldest children are the best off. It's science.

A good administrator?
>Dragonstone, an island in the middle of a trade-rich sea is piss poor after he administrated it for 20 years
A good commander?
>Wins a battle against starving, stone axe wielding, fur wearing refugees with his army of veteran mounted knights in plate armor wielding forged steel weapons
>Puts a smuggler on the head of his navy
>Orders his men to assault a city with a large garrison after his armada was burned instead of tactically retreating
>Burns his own daughter in front of his men, men that already had shit morale and enough reason to doubt him
>Doesn't retreat after loosing all of his horses because he thinks he can still siege a well manned fortress without any supplies
A good ruler?
>Follows the orders of an obviously deceitful priestess because she has perky tits
>Is unable to convince many to join him because he's absolutely shit at diplomacy, so shit that people picked a known homosexual over him
>Names an illiterate smuggler his right hand man
>He burns his vassals because they worship some other gods
>He plans to force a foreign religion on his new subjects

Let's be honest, he might be honorable but he's just as bad a ruler as Dany, Robb, Ned and Joffrey, he puts his principles and desires before efficiency, something that a good ruler never does. Tywin was good at war because he understood his men and didn't expect them to follow him regardless of how much he fucks up. He was good at ruling because he made hard decisions and took initiative regardless of how he or those he cared for felt about the matter. He was good at administration because he spent his whole life administrating the realm instead of whatever Stannis did on his fucking Island.

>He's a showfag

Why are you even here? The quote in OP isn't even in the show.

Cause you get a situation like in 1066 where your king simultaneously promises his kingdom to the king of Norway, the duke of Normandy and his most powerful vassal and incites a civil war.

What does Dragonstone have to trade? Nothing. How would anyone turn a resource poor island into a hub of trade. It's not his fault Robert stuck him with the island.

>Wins a battle against starving, stone axe wielding, fur wearing refugees with his army of veteran mounted knights in plate armor wielding forged steel weapons

If this was the only victory Stannis had you might have a point. As a showfag you don't know about the siege of Storms End or his battles against the Ironborn.

>>Puts a smuggler on the head of his navy
Wrong again showfag Davos was never in charge of the fleet at the Blackwater. If he was most of the armada would have survived.

>>Orders his men to assault a city with a large garrison after his armada was burned instead of tactically retreating
He only lost because Tywin showed up at the last second and convinced half of Stannis's forces to leave him. Retreat wasn't an option anyway.

>Burns his own daughter in front of his men, men that already had shit morale and enough reason to doubt him
>Doesn't retreat after loosing all of his horses because he thinks he can still siege a well manned fortress without any supplies
Show only.

>Follows the orders of an obviously deceitful priestess because she has perky tits
He never follows her orders

>Is unable to convince many to join him because he's absolutely shit at diplomacy, so shit that people picked a known homosexual over him
Again not really his fault he was basically exiled to a shitty rock in the middle of nowhere while Renly got to exert his influence in court and the Stormlands.

>>Names an illiterate smuggler his right hand man
He only did this after the Blackwater took most his lords away. And Davos is loyal and intelligent. Why not make him your hand at that point.

>He burns his vassals because they worship some other gods
>He plans to force a foreign religion on his new subjects
His Rhollor worship is the only legitimate point you've brought up so far.

>Stannis
>zealot

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

Fucking showfags. Go read the books and stop watching this fanfic shitfest. Stannis doesn't give a flying fuck about the Lord of Light or his religion, that was made by kike producers

>Dragonstone has no resources
As far as I know Braavos has no resources and yet it's the richest city in the world. Venice sure as fuck wasn't overflowing with golden mines. You build a hub of trade by building lots of ships and using them to trade, Dragonstone is literally in the middle of a the sea everyone trades in.

>If this was the only victory Stannis had you might have a point. As a showfag you don't know about the siege of Storms End or his battles against the Ironborn.
I'm a showfag, only read the first book and watched the artsy little stories released after each season, so I know about those events.

I don't understand how he showed any military prowess during the siege of Storm's End, all he had to do was hold. Sure he showed dedication by eating all the animals and sure he was ready to turn his men into cannibals but that's basic stuff, not really indicative of tactical or strategical genius

Sure, he managed to subdue the largest of the Iron islands when he(again) had better troops and ships at his disposal and was going against a bunch of pirates. Did any commander serving Robert loose a battle against the Greyjoys during the rebellion?
>He only lost because Tywin showed up at the last second and convinced half of Stannis's forces to leave him. Retreat wasn't an option anyway.
Sure it was, he could've retreated to the Stormlands and tried to counter attack from there, Tywin was still at war with the North and the Riverlands.

I thought Tiberius was his wife Livia's son from a previous marriage? Basically his step son.

In CK2, you just make sure all the other sons have unfortunate accidents or make them lead armies or keep the gates open while the plague is in the province.

Either way, primogeniture is much more superior to gavel kind succession. Really why Charlemagne's empire fell apart.

STANNIS
THE
MANNIS

>As far as I know Braavos has no resources and yet it's the richest city in the world.
It's also a huge fucking city. With a large merchant class. Dragonstone has a pathetic population of mostly sailors and soldiers, not comparable.

>You build a hub of trade by building lots of ships and using them to trade,
With what funds?

>Dragonstone is literally in the middle of a the sea everyone trades in
Why would anybody stop in Dragonstone when Kings Landing is right there? You're expecting Stannis to work a miracle in the very short time he had control over the island.

>Sure he showed dedication by eating all the animals and sure he was ready to turn his men into cannibals but that's basic stuff
Well I don't think it was. There was no sign of relief. I mean if Davos didn't show up they would have starved. I think many people would have given up sooner and as a result the Tyrells would taken the castle and joined up with the other loyalist forces. Which could have changed the entire course of the war. Maybe not tactical knowledge but strength of character nonetheless.

>had better troops and ships at his disposal
He still showed great tactical know how at the Battle of Fair Isle. Where the entire Ironborn fleet was crushed. He outsmarted them. He didn't just charge in and use wave tactics.

>a bunch of pirates.
The Ironborn are best seafarers in the seven kingdoms. Crushing their entire fleet in one go is no easy feat.

>Sure it was, he could've retreated to the Stormlands and tried to counter attack from there, Tywin was still at war with the North and the Riverlands.
Again a falling of your show only perspective. Most of Stannis's men were already ashore attacking the castle before his Armada was hit with wildfire. And in the books a decent number of his ships survived. Why would he retreat? He still outnumbered the enemy. Even if he gave up and retreated he would be turning South straight into Tywins forces.

Not an argument

Cute meme.

But why do they hate Stannis? They clearly do. Why make him even more HATEFUL? I doubt they believe the character is better as a taliban usurper.

Science disagrees. Only children learn to deal with adults at a very early age, and excel at school, etc.

Having siblings is a problem.

In the books they specifically state that Robert crushed westeros economy. This is not open to debate. Maybe you know enough about economy to know that being in perpetual debt is not necessarily bad, but GURM sure as fuck doesn't since Robert's debt is always portrayed as harming the kingdom. So this means that, magically, capitalism works differently in this land of magic and something that is common irl is a big mistake in this reality.

Because he's a white male trying to donthw right thing in westeros. For gods sake the sand snakes killed Doran and its was shownn to be a good outcome

>being in perpetual debt is not necessarily bad
But it's not necessarily good either. It's clear that a lot of Roberts spending came from personal expenses. Like feasts. If the government is spending and putting that money back into the economy then it's a good thing. But despots (selfish and poor administrators especially) often spend money on personal projects or luxuries. You see this all the time in African dictatorships. You combine that with Littlefinger using the crowns purse like his own and it's no shock things collapsed.

>that makes practical sense if and only if there is an established order for line of succession as a backup

This causes either: 1) the established order is grounded on tradition and you get butt-devastation (and maybe rebellions) when you don't follow it when selecting you heir or 2) the order is not grounded on tradition and therefore anyone charismatic enough can defy it easily causin a lot of internal fights.

But Doran was literally an arab.

>tfw eldest son and a complete fuck up

My brother and sister aren't great but they got jobs and a future.

>The molyjew is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a cultist and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “NOT AN ARGUMENT.”

Well, ok, but the other user was talking about the spending as something good. My point was simply that it isn't (regardless of what it should be), the books say so.

>the books say so.
I don't know if it is though. GRRM is very left wing I doubt he thinks the idea of government spending is bad. It really looks like Robert and Littlefinger were corrupt. So in my mind that would be a strike against corruption and not spending inherently.

GRRM doesn't put as much thought on economy as he would like to claim. He barely talks about tax policies despite the meme, for example.

If anything, if there's something "leftist" as you say (actually just pro-state) it's that people always suffers when the state is not there to protect and control.

>GRRM doesn't put as much thought on economy as he would like to claim. He barely talks about tax policies despite the meme, for example.
I pretty much agree with this.

>it's that people always suffers when the state is not there to protect and control.
I would say it's more that personal ambition kills the common man. I mean the state isn't a factor because it doesn't really exist in the book. The book is left wing socially but economically it's pretty agonist I would say. Trade is good, slavery and personal corruption bad. That's about the depth of it. Reading more into it seems silly.

Will he win

Because it's impossible for everyone to agree who's best and it will invariably throw the kingdom into a succession war every time.
Dumbass.

Weiss is a Renly fag and Benioff basically confirmed he let Weiss write the Stannis stuff so he could focus on other things.

Weiss legit thinks Renly would make the best king in the series.

This is actually a real phenomenon. Nobel prize winners are most likely the first born son in their families. Since the first child gets the most attention they are likely to have a higher iq than their siblings.

I was a judo ragdoll for my brother, and i've just been accepted to university

considering pic related was physically disgusted by vagina to the point he couldnt even fuck one of the most beautiful women in the kingdom. how would he be considered fit to rule when his line would literally end with him

/thread.

That way dragons lay.

Can't get beaten by an older brother if I only have an older sister.