Atlantis

>The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed -- if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples. Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilized life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves. As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word. For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities, is said to have performed the noblest deeds and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven.

I like how all you retards believe that somehow the Egyptians remembered about thing before 9000 before them

Solon marvelled at his words, and earnestly requested the priests to inform him exactly and in order about these former citizens. You are welcome to hear about them, Solon, said the priest, both for your own sake and for that of your city, and above all, for the sake of the goddess who is the common patron and parent and educator of both our cities. She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old. As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of their most famous action; the exact particulars of the whole we will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves. If you compare these very laws with ours you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours as they were in the olden time. In the first place, there is the caste of priests, which is separated from all the others; next, there are the artificers, who ply their several crafts by themselves and do not intermix; and also there is the class of shepherds and of hunters, as well as that of husbandmen; and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are distinct from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote themselves solely to military pursuits; moreover, the weapons which they carry are shields and spears, a style of equipment which the goddess taught of Asiatics first to us, as in your part of the world first to you.

>Then as to wisdom, do you observe how our law from the very first made a study of the whole order of things, extending even to prophecy and medicine which gives health, out of these divine elements deriving what was needful for human life, and adding every sort of knowledge which was akin to them. All this order and arrangement the goddess first imparted to you when establishing your city; and she chose the spot of earth in which you were born, because she saw that the happy temperament of the seasons in that land would produce the wisest of men. Wherefore the goddess, who was a lover both of war and of wisdom, selected and first of all settled that spot which was the most likely to produce men likest herself. And there you dwelt, having such laws as these and still better ones, and excelled all mankind in all virtue, as became the children and disciples of the gods.

As a hobbyist Veeky Forums faggot I have too come to the thoughts that Atlantis revers to the Minioan civilization and specifically Atlantis being Crete

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

Why do you presume the area around Spain? I'm tempted to believe your proposal but the image you've supplied indicates larping.

That's where Plato, Solon, and Solon's egyptian sources say it is, archaeological records show gold and copper goods coming from somwehwere west of italy in the pre-bronze era, and many bronze age records strongly indicate some sort of migration from the far west.

They say it was an island, convenient for you to take that part out.

Or the part when they say it's as big as Africa and Anatolia put together.

> archaeological records show gold and copper goods coming from somwehwere west of italy in the pre-bronze era

No, they don't, they show the presence of silver object from Sardinia and maybe Spain in the late bronze age and early iron age, not in the "pre bronze age"

>and many bronze age records strongly indicate some sort of migration from the far west.

No, they don't

>taking the word of Mr. "I remember socrates saying this thing that backs up my argument so that means I'm right"

>They say it was an island, convenient for you to take that part out.
Uh, i didn't take that part out, what are you even talking about

Why are you so automatically hostile?

>flood myths
cataclysmic floods did happen throughout prehistoric earth, but that doesn't mean Noah did.

>not believing in someone citing historical testimony as clearly as possible for no apparent reason

Why? It's clearly represented as history in the text. What legitimate reason is there to not take that at face value?

Egyptians didn't know of the existence of any land west of Greece, no way they knew about fucking Spain

fpbp

>Egyptians didn't know of the existence of any land west of Greece
Yes they did? Here is a second party historical account of an Egyptian knowing about the existence of lands west of greece, it's right in front of you.

1)there was no civilization in the canaries, they were a basic culture not comparable to Atlantis in any way shape or form
2)Ancient Greeks always talked out of their ass when talking about ancient things, see Phoenicians coming from Somalia or Georgians being Egyptians

Yes, something made up by Solon/Plato isn't truth

>2)Ancient Greeks always talked out of their ass when talking about ancient things, see Phoenicians coming from Somalia or Georgians being Egyptians
So, what, any source before some arbitrary date is fake?

what actual reason do you have for thinking it's made up? This is not logical historical thinking, man. You're just spouting shit.

>So, what, any source before some arbitrary date is fake?

Considering how outlandish the claims made by the source are, yes, it's reasonable to conclude that

>what actual reason do you have for thinking it's made up?

Knowledge of prehistoric Europe and knowledge of Plato's philosophy

Atlantis is a myth that arose from memories of the Minoans and the sea peoples.

>Considering how outlandish the claims made by the source are, yes, it's reasonable to conclude that
the claims seem totally mundane to me though. What outlandishness? "A city existed" is outlandish?

>the atlanteans aren't real
>they're actually a group of people from an island that sank beneath the sea and they called themselves the people of the sea

history fags have really weird cognitive dissonance

>mundane
>the existence of a civilized continent as big as a Africa and Anatolia submerged by a tsunami

Sure

But we literally know that kind of shit happened on the regular throughout earth history

you're just being dogmatic for some reason

...

Yeah, happened after millions of years, not all of a sudden, you're being a dupe because you prefer fairy tales since real history is too boring for you

it's literally perfectly reasonable and believable

...

Except that place was inhabited by stone age hunter gatherers, not by a civilized people

Yes, I'm sure 1/2 of a microscopic island is the same as a continent bigger than Europe

it was a mother ship class that had uso ability's landed on earth.
then yahwh declared war and it left earth to fight yahwh with the Aztec fleet.
they all died in defense of earth.
earth is now a prison.

define civilized people, because I don't think Atlantis was anything more than a meeting spot for primitive semi-nomads and something between horticulture and proto-agriculture. Maybe try actually reading what I say and analyzing it instead of just saying LOL ITS A CRAZY PERSON LMAOOOOOOOOOO

Wow, what you psoted was made in 300 bc, it absolutely has nothing to do with Atlantis!

At this point Stonehenge or Orkney are better candidates for Atlantis if you're ignoring the Atlantis' account so much to fir your agenda

>because I don't think Atlantis was anything more than a meeting spot for primitive semi-nomads and something between horticulture and proto-agriculture.

So you're basically ignoring Solon's account, which is the only account we have of Atlantis?

Interesting...

The most plausible scenario to me is that the account is real but vastly exaggerated. I highly doubt the account is just entirely fabricated, but I also doubt that it is entirely accurate.

Yes, I'm sure Egyptians somehow remembered that dogger land existed despite they having nothing to do with Paleolithic Europeans

Oral history is a powerful tool user. It can last literally infinite time. Stories could absolutely plausibly reach all the way back to anatomical modernity itself. Lots of psychologists actually think we developed something akin do stories BEFORE we even actually developed words.

even if there was a large landmass in the atlantic at the time you've said Why would people travel that far, build ships, and save up their supplies to go to an island at the edge of the world that has the same shit that's in the Mediterranean?

Wouldn't it make more sense to trade things in Italy, Egypt, Anatolia, Sicily, Crete, etc.?

I didn't say that 2nd part.

Minoan civilization ended centuries before the invasions of the sea peoples, but the Minoans were subjects of Mycenaean myth, notably the legend of the minotaur. During the dark ages these myths were muddled. There are some key features that link the 2.

>Atlantis was beyond the pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar)
many of the sea peoples came from the west
>the Egyptians fought the Atlanteans alongside the greeks
the Egyptians were the only ones to defeat the sea peoples
>atlantis was shaped like concentric circles
Santorini, once a resort for wealthy minoans, has a volcanic rim and cone
>atlantis was destroyed by a volcano
this center of minoan wealth and decadence was blown up wen santorini erupted, the eruption also signalled the end of minoan civilization, it would have been a major event for the mycenaeans who were their enemies and likely would have been attributed to an act of a god and gone down as a legend, a god punishing them for their decadence and vice

I admit it is not 100% proof, but I assure you it is very compelling and this theory is quite fleshed out. Truly a fascinating legend of mystery and renown and you can visit santorini today if you can find the time between snorting coke in greek nightclubs and giving yourself a melanoma on the beach

>even if there was a large landmass in the atlantic at the time you've said Why would people travel that far, build ships, and save up their supplies to go to an island at the edge of the world that has the same shit that's in the Mediterranean?
You have it backwards. Mediterranean society would have come from there, not gone to there.

Except when the people who tell those stories die.
And if their children don't die as well then they fuck up the story. and then their kids fuck up that story and so on and so forth. Its like the longest game of telephone it always comes out as shit at the end.

>many of the sea peoples came from the west
From where? Seems to me they would have to have come from some sort of civilization which collapsed. Mass migrations don't just happen, they have causes.

Seems to me like this is just saying the atlantis story is true without being willing to say that directly. You're saying every detail of the story is tmore or less rue but the story isn't true. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

The Sea Peoples = Atlantis. It's the same thing. It's just a way of acknowledging atlantis without touching on the social stigma of a story that people in the renaissance thought was a myth but we can now clearly see had serious threads of truth to it

You don't know how oral histories work. Changing the story even a tiny bit is a massive crime in oral-history cultures. Your priesthood teaches the EXACT story, and makes new priests memorize it EXACTLY. I've studied the shit out of the early oral histories that eventually became the OT, this is how oral histories really work. The telephone thing is just a factoid ignorant people think. The story doesn't change AT ALL for generations and generations.

why would they have come from a simple trading post at the edge of the world?
especially since the earliest known cities come from the other side of the Mediterranean sea

Nah he's wrong, no one came from the West to Egypt, that's a blatant lie

We have clear evidence of Mediterranean people migrating westward from Anatolia, not the opposite

>why would they have come from a simple trading post at the edge of the world?
>especially since the earliest known cities come from the other side of the Mediterranean sea

Because it was the earliest known city? You're forgetting the timeline, man. Atlantis is, if real, older than Sumer.

The mediterranean was the simple trading post on the edge of the atlantean civilizations' world, and when Atlantis fell, the people migrated to the edge of the world and settled there.

the sea peoples' existence is a wholly uncontested historical and archaological fact. Whatever other conjecture there is in this thread, don't go claiming real, rigorously proven history is fake just to support your argument.

They came from North, not from West, that's a big difference, read the Egyptian account

>people are perfect and don't forget or change details that aren't written down for thousands of generations if they try really hard

People forget.
That's why written language and some forms of art started in the first place; so that people won't forget.

You're ignorant if you think memory enters into it. The stories are ritualized. They don't change.

>Because it was the earliest known city? You're forgetting the timeline, man. Atlantis is, if real, older than Sumer.

The earliest city we've found is Golbekli Tepe and it waas estimated to be founded 11,500 years ago in anatolia.

we've found older settlements than gobkli tepe in the Americas man you don't even know what you're talking about

The oldest city is Jericho in the Levant dating back to 10000 years ago, Golbekli tepe isn't a city

False

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/14000-village-discovered-triquet-island-british-columbia-canada-oldest-settlment-north-america-a7673726.html

so atlantis was canada all along

>village
>city

lol...

No one is exactly sure but most likely they passed through or were from the balkans.

>You're saying every detail of the story is tmore or less rue but the story isn't true.
Not every detail. Here is my reasoning...

Since it is a myth it can be mashed together and embellished in innumerrable ways, it shouldn't be treated as solidly as, for example, evidence of the mycenaean palace culture declining. However some elements of it could be based on real life events.

What are the chances of someone fabricating a story of a luxuriant city built on an island shaped like concentric circles destroyed by a volcano and by coincidence the Minoans building a resort for the rich on a volcanic rim which erupted? We can infer there is a good chance this element of the story was drawn from the story of Akrotiri.

The Aegean lies west of Greece. Why would I lie?

Interestingly enough, according to a recent study western Norway was settled by people from Lapland and Finland.

>This result suggests that Scandinavia was initially colonized following two different routes: one from the south, the other from the northeast. The latter followed the ice-free Norwegian north Atlantic coast, along which novel and advanced pressure-blade stone-tool techniques may have spread

biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/07/17/164400

This raises the possibility that Doggerland and Britain were settled by these ancient Laplanders.

okay if you want the wakky cracka ass niggaspiritualty shit you got t olook up the lemurian golden age predated by the mu empire, the rise and fall of maldek and the ensuing atlantean era

Old baseless speculation, the sea peoples were Anatolians, Cretans and Cypriots

>The Aegean lies west of Greece.

?

wait was atlantis supposed to have been destroyed by THE flood? I thought it was just some random flood, the island just randomly sank or it was drowned because of some god or whatever

he must've misspelled west for east lol

>calls someone else's claim baseless
>makes baseless claim
yeah man, i'm sure the people who caused cypriot civilization to come to an end were the cypriots

They were Cypriots

so the Cypriots sailed to cyprus to destroy it?
Do you see how stupid this is?

take your meds, son

It was not destroyed

Minoan Civilization. which was mostly wiped out by the Thera Eruption. Then oral history passed down the story through out the greek/med civilizations. Until Plato uses the common story about a people being wiped out by a eruption. To write a moral teach story about a fictional city called Atlantis.

>Minoan Civilization. which was mostly wiped out by the Thera Eruption

It wasn't, in fact the beautiful version of the Knossos palace we see today was post eruption, most of the frescos are post eruptions too as it's most of the Linear A corpus.

Many archeologists agree that the Thera Eruption weakened the Minonan civilization and left it vulnerable to Mycenaean conquest.

>Since it is a myth it can be mashed together and embellished in innumerrable ways, it shouldn't be treated as solidly
So oral tradition is perfect and unchanging except when it's convenient for what you want to believe?

There is a journalist here in Italy convinced that the myth of Atlantis talks about Sardinia.
Never read his arguments though.

That image is a description of Aurora Borealis being seen somewhere in Germany not an UFO coming down to earth

Yeah I'm Sardinian and his argument is that the older pillar of Hercules were originally in the strait of Sicily and were later moved to Iberia when Greeks explored the Mediterranean more, could be, maybe for the Myceneans, but certainly not for the archaic Greeks who colonized France rather early.

He also argues that Sardinia was rich in metals, many different kinds of fruits were cultivated there and had an ancient civilization and people built stone structures which three different types of stones (the Nuraghi), just like Atlantis, which is true but still not convincing enough to me

Younger Dryas impact. Gobekli Tepe.

Most people today live on the coast. Back in the day, the sea level was lower. Do the math.

Monte verde II although is little more than a hunter-gatherer camp is 20,000 years old

bump

bump

Is this book any good, in a tongue-in-cheek kinda way? Or is it utter shite?

They feared the flood warrior

>Somehow Athens too exists in 9600 BC and rules the whole eastern part of the mediterranean
People often tend to to forget that this is part of the story as well and it makes the whole Atlantis myth even less reliable

Ok so there´s a new lecture by Jordan Peterson about the biblical flood, and since I´ve read this thread before I listened to the lecture, I had Atlantis in mind all the time he spoke about the flood.

youtube.com/watch?v=6gFjB9FTN58

Do you think his psychological analysis of the flood myth in the bible also apply to the myth of Atlantis? Archetypes n shit.

>Do you think his psychological analysis of the flood myth in the bible also apply to the myth of Atlantis? Archetypes n shit.
The biggest problem with that explanation is that Atlantis was never really a part of Greek mythology. Plato made the story up as a metaphor, and ancient audiences took it as such, for the most part. It doesn't show up in mythological texts, discussions of mythological eras, or anything except a small number of works ripped off of Plato. It's became a sort of part of mythology now, but it wasn't ever part of actual mythology.

The story has a clear meaning in its original context; there isn't much of a reason to infer much meaning beyond that.