ITT: wars were the good guys won

You may have a point there, I've read a lot of Marine accounts but not many Army one, Marines never think they're losing so long as the bodies keep piling up

t.Jens JenssOn

t. Ahmed Al-Akharid

None

>using nukes in a proxy war

>the north vietnamese were the good guys
nigga what
fuck off rooinek

>Wanting independence, earned it.
>Fight French for 9 years to keep it.
>Bad guys
Are you this deluded

It's not a proxy war if your own troops are directly involved ya fuckin retard

>finally throw the frogs out of your country
>ok, cool, the french have fucked off, but the people in the south want to be a democracy, is that cool w/ you?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>sperg out and declare war on the south for not wanting to live in an authoritarian communist shithole
>massacre their civillians when they don't want to fight with you, carry out terrorist attacks in south vietnam
>brutally repress your own civillians
>overthrow a democratically elected government and replace it with ho chi minh's tiny asian penis
>millions of south vietnamese flee to avoid being lined up against a wall and shot
Yeah, the north vietnamese were totally the good guys, user

>the people in the south want to be a democracy.
Said who? The CIA after Geneva where they separate the country as muster points for the French to retreat
>massacre their civilians when they don't want to fight with you.
Sauce? (And if I see the one with the FLAMETHROWER again)
>overthrow a democratically elected government
Pic related
>millions of south vietnamese flee to avoid being lined up against a wall and shot
My family who stayed behind, guess that the fact I'm still here to argue with your "superior" Murican education prove the fact that I have nothing better to do with my life and that your argument is wrong.

>said who?
Said the people in the south, who overwhelmingly supported the government
>sauce
RJ rummel estimates that the NVA/viet cong assassinated about 40,000 civillians during the vietnam war hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB6.1A.GIF
>diem
He was succeeded by thieu in a constitutional election.
>my family who stayed behind
So, unconfirmable anecdotal evidence, then? Because I have actual evidence, that shows what it was like to be thrown into a re-education camp under communist control. Sagan, Ginetta; Denney, Stephen (October–November 1982). "Re-education in Unliberated Vietnam: Loneliness, Suffering and Death". The Indochina Newsletter. Retrieved 2016-09-01.

>Said the people in the south, who overwhelmingly supported the government
In a referendum on the future of the State of Vietnam on 23 October 1955, Diệm rigged the poll supervised by his brother Ngô Đình Nhu and was credited with 98.2 percent of the vote, including 133% in Saigon. His American advisors had recommended a more modest winning margin of "60 to 70 percent." Diệm, however, viewed the election as a test of authority. (Karnow, Stanley (1997). Vietnam: A History (2nd ed.). New York: Penguin Books. ISBN )
The subsequent treaty negotiations at Geneva split Vietnam along the latitude known as the 17th parallel (with Ho in control in the North and Bao in the South) and called for nationwide elections for reunification to be held in 1956. In 1955, however, the strongly anti-communist Ngo Dinh Diem pushed Bao aside to become president of the Government of the Republic of Vietnam (GVN). (history.com/topics/vietnam-war/vietnam-war-history)
U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in 1954, "I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly eighty percent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bảo Đại. Indeed, the lack of leadership and drive on the part of Bảo Đại was a factor in the feeling prevalent among Vietnamese that they had nothing to fight for."[ Dwight D. Eisenhower. Mandate for Change. Garden City, New Jersey. Doubleday & Company, 1963, p. 372.]
>NVA/viet cong assassinated about 40,000 civillians
While I don't state that NVA/VC didn't kill VN but because the source could be biased on both side (yours because the author is a critic against communism, mine because it's probably propaganda), I still raise the fact that the NVA/VC were welcomed because the South governments (both Thieu and Diem) were corrupted.

Only 40,000?

Karnow said it was six figures.

In a war like the one in Vietnam, neither side can protect the civilians from the other, and most people just try to do what the people with the guns are telling them to do at any given moment.

>I still raise the fact that the NVA/VC were welcomed
Then why did the NVA and VC completely fail during the tet offensive to get the southern populace to join them? Why were they forced almost completely out of vietnam and into cambodia near the end of the war?

>diem
Doesn't deny the fact that the "democratically elected government" weren't that democratically
>So, unconfirmable anecdotal evidence, then?
The high ranking soldiers who were heavily tied with the ARVN got the camp, and after their releases they got approved by the government to go to the US, where they further tarnish us. and here is a light reding of your source(In assessing conditions within the camps, there are basically
three sources we can rely on: (1) official statements of the
Hanoi government, (2) accounts by visitors to the camps and (3)
accounts of the former prisoners. All three sources must be
considered, but the value of the first two sources is limited.)
>avoid being lined up against a wall and shot
Again your counter argument failed to prove this point user.

1968: Still have American leash on them
1972: Americans are gone
Hmm too wonder why user.

nice

They didn't join them when the americans left, either.

The French did nothing wrong in Indochina, in fact they are the best thing that ever happened to your country, and were your last chance to be one day accepted as a civilized people.

why do asians in old timey pictures look so much darker than every asian I've ever seen?

> best thing that ever happened to your country,
>tfw you will never being colonized
>tfw you will never see your people treated like dogs
>tfw you will never starve to death because the government need your rice to pay as tax
read something from our side please, I'd recommend "Le Procès de la colonisation française"

Different user, but have you forgot about the disastrous land reform that the North implemented? Or the absolutely shit economic policies that were implemented after reunification? Or the re-education camps and blatant discrimination against southerners that last to this day?

Are you ignoring the fact that during the Easter Offensive there were hundreds of thousands of civilians fleeing to the south?

> land reform
People killed were landlords, the error of this was that we killed landlords who supported the North during the war, numbers were wildly estimated by various sources makes statements like "disastrous" or "huge success"
debatable
>shit economic policies after reunification
mistakes were made, people were starved, fixed in 1985 but people still use it as a reminder on how shitty the government are
>Re-education camps read my post about it, only officials get the stuff that you describe, regular soldiers only have to report to the government, turn in their weapons and well, lived their lives as normal citizen, nobody gave them a hard time, most of them served in the 1978 war against the Khmer Rouge. The bad thing is that some of them still hated the government and their offspring still works in anti-communism, anti government group till this day.
>blatant discrimination against southerner
Not encouraged by the government, although there are policies which limit the sons and daughters of the ex-soldiers, officials of the old regime to join in military and police institutes.
>War
>People flee because "The barbaric communist monkeys are going to cannibalise them"
They were terrified because of the war and the propaganda.

>People killed were landlords
People who were killed were anyone that was fingered by their neighbors or happened to own remotely small plots of land. Even HCM admitted it was a failure after a time, that's why it was stopped and survivors rehabilitated.
>Nobody gave them a hard time
Most implications are that they were shunned by society and that their descendants can't get good jobs or go to college.
>Policies which limit the sons and daughters of the ex-soldiers
Exactly my point.
>They were terrified because of the war and propaganda
So the people killed in Hue when the VC took over was just propaganda?

>People who were killed were anyone that was fingered by their neighbors or happened to own remotely small plots of land.
That was the errors of the people who were being a snitch( an envied one that is) and the poor administration of the new government, and like you said "HCM admitted it was a failure after a time, that's why it was stopped."
>they were shunned by society and that their descendants can't get good jobs or go to college.
They were shunned because they join groups or parties that are anti-government and being revisionist, if you uses notable people who were arrested that is metioned in groups above you just proved my point and that they deserved it.
Most ex-soldiers lived their lives peacefully, named a few that were harrassed without joining an anti-gov group
>So the people killed in Hue when the VC took over was just propaganda?
msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/Vietnam/huemyth/mythofhuemassacre.pdf
again conflict between statements from both sides and independant journalists makes this a matter for debate.

...

Real asians are of African descent

it's not bait when its just plain being wrong

Every war Denmark ever lost

No. Fuck off, nugget.

fucking soutpiel

Oh yeah, I'm sure those millions of South Vietnamese refugees were just fleeing their own shadows, yeah?
Communist apologists make me sick.

There are no good nor bad guys in history.

There are generally few types of SVN refugees:
-High ranking officers who know that they're going to be persecuted because of various crimes (corruption, killing NFL, just being an ass to people)
-People who are afraid there will be a bloodbath when the North stormed the city
-People who want to be rich and are used to the American lifestyle
and all of them (140 000 to 500 000) when came to the US were focused on working. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any VN refugee pre-1975 on why they left the country.

Any Vietnamese community abroad seems to have a lot of people like that. Here in France the community is even pretty deeply divided, or at least that's what my fiancée's family told me. They came here before independence, as they were IIRC quite involved in the colonial administration and realised early things were not going to last. The fact that they are Catholic probably played a role too, they feared potential persecution. Because of that, they tell me that both "sides" of the community dislike their family. Don't know if that's really true, though.