I was reading "The Lineages of Absolutist State", by Parry Anderson, and got me into thinking about the use of mercenary groups in national armys. Although this happened durring all history or at least, the majority of it, I can't ignore the feel that use of privaty military by nation-states is in rising again. I may be mistaken, but I would love to hear the opnion of Veeky Forums on this topic.
To make it clear, no, I don't think the use of mercenary companies is bad. But they so far had been doing some nasty things and I wonder if there is something on the past that can help us to deal with this suposed trend of the present.
>got me into thinking about the use of mercenary groups in national armys. During the heyday of mercenaries, there was no such thing as nation-states. >I can't ignore the feel that use of privaty military by nation-states is in rising again. Private Military Contractors =/= Mercenaries.
They're bodyguards at best.
Unlike in the age of swords and spears n shit, it is really hard for private entities to be at the same level as modern conventional armies. At the most all they can ever run are infantry forces.
Dominic Smith
I supposed you are right user, my brain just melted to make anacronistic comparison as such. The PMC have more of a support role I guess, because is easier to pay someone to guard a place while you focus your soldiers on the important stuff. >so the pmc's are like modern-day milicia? Either way, I wonder if the use of PMC's is getting sounds so vocal because there are people who make a fuzz about or because it truly is growing and stuff. From the things I saw, PMC's are said to being used in order to avoid dealing with legal issues that stardard soldiers would face. Tho I can't say for sure if the PMC's are so bad as some people portray it to be.
Mason Smith
>To make it clear, no, I don't think the use of mercenary companies is bad. But they were bad. Look at the thirty years war. Unpaid mercenaries looted villages, towns, and farms everywhere. They slaughtered the common people. There's no loyalty except to money.
Camden Campbell
True. I would say I don't think their use is bad (when you have the means to use it, of course), but the actions they take can be very bad. Most of all, I see that their use isen't bad as long as they don't go full looting the surroudings, while they just follow their contract and engage in battle wi the enemy forces and so on.
Aaron Collins
You might want to take a look at Machiavelli's views on the use of mercenaries. He was almost entirely against them because they did not take the same risks as regular soldiers and they would sometimes betray their employer. There's almost no connection of trust between the employer and mercenaries.
Blake Wood
My college paper was actually about PMCs. Well, covered them.
In many ways, they suffer the "mercenary" stigma largely because we live in an age where we are memed into nation-states where state-controlled military forces is the only legit military force. Making therefore a paramilitary bunch of guys-for-hire a jittery concept for many people, mostly in the west.
Largely, Security Contractors exist because a lot of entities want to do business in areas that are not exactly stable. Even governments as well, especially in the case of embassies.
From the things I saw, PMC's are said to being used in order to avoid dealing with legal issues that stardard soldiers would face. Using PMCs in an offensive manner is the surest way to a political disaster. Just consider the fact that when a few of em joined the US marines in a defensive battle on a US logistical installation in Iraq, that caused a stir in Washington.
Jeremiah Jackson
This is probably the one of the cooler historical figures to not appear in any movie or tv series, he was a lifelong mercenary in medieval times
>Private Military Contractors =/= Mercenaries. >They're bodyguards at best. Yeah, no.
Connor Bailey
How do people become PMC's?
Sebastian Lee
be ex-military, swat e.c.t and get approached by a guy you worked with who is now part of a PMC
Camden Baker
el cid was a mercenary pretty much. read up on him.
he fought for muslims even, and it's funny seeing /pol/tards bring him up as a savior of Catholicism
in essence, no, mercenaries were always a thing, and probably will be a thing. it's just that historically, they've been more on the rise in certain periods, or fall.
Logan Bennett
you need to understand the idea of nations and such havent been prominent before the french revolution
monarchs, kingdoms, had interests, they used whatever was available to them
Asher Russell
This. As long as there is war, there will be those to benefit from it. Same as sex and prostitutes.
Asher Murphy
This, you simply had to hire soldiers otherwise you'd be stuck with someone else army. Read John McCormack "One Million Mercenaries" For an account on late medievals most prominent mercs, the Swiss.
Ian Walker
Yeah, yes. They're heavily armed mall cops.
For one thing: that's what they're always hired for. With a side order of security advising and such.
For another: All they can shit on are nignoggy militias with zero discipline but will fold up upon the assault of a modern conventional force with their tanks, drones, and planes.
Look: unlike other services like the postal officer or infrastructure, the military systems of today is a rigged game favoring centralized governments with the considerably amount of money only a state can generate in addition to the ability to empower MICs.
PSCs can never challenge that considering you can't run a modern conventional armed force with just capital from your earnings. We are far from the days of powerful, armored mercenaries that can live on their earnings and booty from their past employment in between jobs.
Aaron Flores
A good spot to start with mercenaries is South Africa. A once civilized nation that has fractured into enclaves of civility surrounded by savage anarchy. How is this done? Rich white neighborhoods bond together and hire a private security force to watch over their gated communities while they go about their business. In the large urban areas, SA police hire private security firms to bolster their forces when they go in for big, apartment-clearing busts because they simply don't have the manpower and funding to do it themselves. There's a documentary on youtube about it, the company followed is known as "The Bad Boys".
>le pol boogerman may may El Cid was not a mercenary, he was a knight in exile. Whenever offered positions that would have him fighting against the kingdom of Castille & Leon, he refused because he considered King Alfonso his rightful liege. Not something a mercenary would do.
Carson Price
do you have a link to the documentary?
Bentley White
>Yeah, yes. They're heavily armed mall cops. >For one thing: that's what they're always hired for. With a side order of security advising and such. So they are heavily armed security personnel? Hired as privates? To do dangerous work for a nations military? Sounds like mercenaries. >For another: All they can shit on are nignoggy militias with zero discipline but will fold up upon the assault of a modern conventional force with their tanks, drones, and planes. That does not make them any less mercenary.
>Not something a mercenary would do. You don't see swiss Mercs fighting against the cantons themselves.
Nathan Brown
>You don't see swiss Mercs fighting against the cantons themselves. Swiss mercs where operating under the cantons authorities exclusively after the 15th century, means if you wanted to hire them you had to make a deal with the the confederation and the cantons first to hire them. Therms and legal procedures where fixed with the contract.
Justin Powell
>So they are heavily armed security personnel? Yes >Hired as privates? No. They don't hold military rank. >To do dangerous work for a nations military? Guarding their bases. Nothing more.
A Mercenary today is understood as someone who participates in offensive operations or cannot be tasked to reinforce a military force. So security guards who just happened to fight back because you attacked their client do not count.
There's a reason why if an ambush happens on a military convoy in a nearby position, PSCs aren't ordered to reinforce them.
Colton James
>A Mercenary today is understood as someone who participates in offensive operations or can be tasked to reinforce a military force.*
Kevin Harris
>>Hired as privates? >No. They don't hold military rank. I meant private citizen sorry
>A Mercenary today is understood as someone who participates in offensive operations or cannot be tasked to reinforce a military force. Not according to the geneva convention
Aaron Watson
There's a good documentary called Shadow Company that goes over the rise of modern day mercenaries/PMCs. I recommend it.
Also, read about Executive Outcomes. They're sort of a bridge between Cold War classics (Bob Denard and co, bunch of euros in Africa with a few RPGs and trucks, something out of a Frederick Forsyth novel) and modern PMCs.
Also, read about Mark Thatcher and the Aegis scandal. Fucking hilarious
not exactly an application process, huh? [spoiler]I miss military life[/spoiler]
Mason Thompson
Mercenaries were really useful to any ruler in the past because rulers didn't always have professional armies, and when they did those armies (generally speaking) weren't loyal to the ruler ot nation directly, they were loyal to their liege lord or their commander or what have you. This made them very unreliable unless the nation was already very strong and the ruler deeply respected, nothing stopped your most elite troops to march off back home under a discontent vasaal or even turn against you because you declared their commander a traitor.
Now I'm not saying mercenaries display peak loyalty, they're only loyal to gold and that can be manipulated easier. They were also veterans and knew war better than your average recruit. Nowadays armies are for the most part loyal to the state ao they become much more reliable and cheaper than mercs
Elijah Foster
Mercenary and bodyguard are not uncompatible
Ryder Nelson
This guy has it right their rules of engagement mean that they are only able to serve in a protective facility in the modern age. But it's been know for someone or a group of people to just sperg out under fire and start slaughtering people or doing whatever they want
Doesn't mean it's legal but also doesn't mean that they're going to be punished or that there's exactly a governing body with legal jurisdiction over them
Michael Powell
Hundred years of war and no day of battle was the motto of early modern european mercenaries.
Landon Cox
You still get old school mercenaries in Africa time to time. One made up of ex-south Africans and Rhodesians led a good part of the fighting in Nigeria against Boko Haram. They even had their own Hind helicopter gunships.
Hunter Lee
Microsoft's annual earnings can afford them an aircraft carrier or two.
Justin Bell
>At the most all they can ever run are infantry forces. Most have various armoured vehicles, some have attack and transport helicopters.
