According to this "central mystery" of most Christian faiths...

Get this Islamic shit off here. Islam is pedophilia and terrorism! Fuck Islam nuke Mecca now!

actually islam is good, you should become muslim

>devoting your life to an arbitrary hypothetical concept
This is literally what everyone does. It's a core aspect of ideology.

Christianity has a sharp distinction from clergy, monastics, and laity. Laity aren't supposed to read the bible at the same level as the clergy or the monastics, or dwell on the mysteries of God past faith in it.

At least Islam and Judaism are actually monotheistic.

islam is not an ideology. tawhid, the basis of islam, is metaphysical not ideological

Not to defend OP but shut up and go the fuck back to your shitty subreddit.

Metaphysical views are ideological.

wrong

An ideology is a system of ideas about the nature of the world. Metaphysical views fall under that.

nope, true metaphysics is not systematic. nice try pleb

How do you arrive at metaphysical conclusions then?

>An ideology is a system of ideas about the nature of the world
Too broad.

pure intellectual intuition conducted by qualified persons

>Guenon
Okay, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, firstly.

Secondly, how can you trust your intuition, and how do you determine who is qualified?

>dosn't know what intuition is
>thinks i mean gut instinct or some shit
read some books pleb, true metaphysics is incommunicable and ineffable

How do you determine who is qualified, faggot

The way you talk about it, it just sounds like made up bullshit.

its also not valid

if i were to answer your questions it would only cause your plebeian more distress and confusion. save yourself the trouble, and get educated on the topic the proper way

plebeian mind*

>I'm too retarded to explain
Enjoy your (you), dumbass.

The Kalām argument proves a monolithic God not a trinity

Christians btfo

concession accepted

thus the fragility of irrational beliefs

user, you are entering a cycle of pain and suffering...dont do this to yourself. there is a way out. islam is the answer

I'm already quite happy as an Orthodox Christian, user.

I'm sure Islam isn't nearly as retarded as you make it sound, though.

Implying all Christianity is Catholicism. I agree with you that catholics are retarded.

>scientists fine with mathmatical conjectures and quantum states having indeterminant truth values, neither true or false, as described by Bas van Fraassen and others
>scientists make a big stink about having paraconsistent logics where something can be true and false at the same time.
Or how about Marx and Hegel seemingly embracing naked contradictions under dialectical materialism?

>belongs to an orthodox tradition
>doesn't believe in true metaphysical/intellectual intuition
spitting on gregory palamas' grave my man

Orthodox Christian metaphysics comes from divine revelation in the form of God telling the Apostles what is true, and that tradition being passed down throughout the ages.

It's not based on human intuition at all.

>knows nothing about his own tradition
lmao do you even into macarius

>deliberate system of inquiry to determine verifiable models about reality
oh wait no i forgot just pray and hope got sends you a "paraconsistent" fever dream to anthropomorphize and then worship lol

also
>human intuition
>human
>HUMAN
>not supra-human
forget what i said about islam, you gotta start by actually embracing orthodox christianity first, pick up some dionysius nigga

>quoting things never said
It's divine, Holy tradition revealed through direct revelation from God Himself.

you stated that the intuition i referred to earlier was human, revealing your ignorance on the topic, a topic which equally pertains to your own tradition which you are evidently ignorant about

>use words in ways that they don't mean
>get mad that people don't know what you're talking about
Explain intuition then.

where's the defender of the faith when you need him?

considering how confused you already are the few remarks ive made, im just gonna restate my last suggestion―start by getting educated on orthodox christianity. it will be a very valuable experience for you

*blocks your path*

I've read multiple theological works on Eastern Orthodoxy, and was baptized after taking a catechetical class.

I've read the Orthodox Way by Met. Bishop Kallistos Ware, and currently own Seminary textbooks.

If I'm not understanding what you're talking about, it's because you haven't explained what you're talking about. It sounds most likely like you're using terms in a way that the Perrennialists only used them, not one that most Orthodox people would be familiar with.

>I've read multiple theological works on Eastern Orthodoxy, and was baptized after taking a catechetical class.
>I've read the Orthodox Way by Met. Bishop Kallistos Ware, and currently own Seminary textbooks.
sounds pretty entry level

>wrong
Strong arguments today.

Are you talking about the intuition that comes with being in-tune with the Holy Spirit, user? Because that's something that you actually do have ways of determining if someone is under the power of, like in the case of St Seraphim of Sarov. But, even then, such instances are very rare, so it's not like all of our metaphysical views come from that, and they managed to get in-tune largely by studying the traditional metaphysical views of the Church passed down from the time of the Apostles.

rational arguments are sinful
only pure intuition and faith in the trinity is beloved of the god

Cont. paraconsistency:
1)Contradictions are problematic if, and only if, T and F are assignable to all propositions. Call this problem the infection problem.
2) The accessibility relations in modal logic do not allow infection as described in (1) if a constraint is added that only allows double assignment of T and F valuations when the language referring to meta level entities such as the language itself or God. Statements like Noumenon, Liar's Paradox's and a set of three beings that are at the same time one being (Trinity) are semantically distinct from statements like water is wet, there are three cars, and the sky is blue.
3) The mystery of the Trinity is that it is false that HS, G, and J are identical but it is also true that they are identical as the power of any of these entities means they necessarily exist beyond linguistic description and there is no accessibility of valuations about G, HS, and J that applies to ordinary language.
4) It is not irrational to believe that the sky cannot possibly be both blue and green at the same time while also believing that G, HS, and J are and are not one and the same.

It's just that easy guys.

user, if you don't use rationale as well as intuition to determine who to trust, then you run the risk of being deceived by demons.

are you implying that god isn't powerful enough to prevent demons from perverting his pure emanations

*rejects you annulment*

No, I'm saying that we humans are fallible, and can misidentify demons as angelic forces. The Fathers advise you to ask those claiming to be gifted by God with revelation from the Holy Spirit to go before Church authorities, to perform miracles, and to pray the Lord's Prayer, and to ask any angelic apparitions to pray the Lord's prayer (because demons cannot do this).

If you believe in God, it is nothing to believe in him because it is logical, compared to believing in him because you love him .

Based Napoleon said it best

>Religions are all founded on miracles — on things we cannot understand, such as the Trinity. Jesus calls himself the Son of God, and yet is descended from David. I prefer the religion of Mahomet — it is less ridiculous than ours.

So according to you, God is ALMOST-omnipotent, capable of almost-all things, with the exception that God's ability to communicate with humans is at the mercy of Demon who are able to masquerade as his true messengers.

Conveniently, your church authorities have determined the principles that God really want (presumably which was transmitted to them by non-demons).

That seems faulty to me, being paranoid of demons all the time.

>Moreover, they call us Hetaeriasts, or Associators, because, they say, we introduce an associate with God by declaring Christ to the Son of God and God. We say to them in rejoinder: ‘The Prophets and the Scriptures have delivered this to us, and you, as you persistently maintain, accept the Prophets. So, if we wrongly declare Christ to be the Son of God, it is they who taught this and handed it on to us.’ But some of them say that it is by misinterpretation that we have represented the Prophets as saying such things, while others say that the Hebrews hated us and deceived us by writing in the name of the Prophets so that we might be lost. And again we say to them: ‘As long as you say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being Hetaeriasts? For the word, and the spirit, is inseparable from that in which it naturally has existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious that He is God. If, however, He is outside of God, then, according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God you have mutilated Him. It would be far better for you to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus, you speak untruly when you call us Hetaeriasts; we retort by calling you Mutilators of God.’
St. John of Damascus;

>Implying all Christianity is Catholicism. I agree with you that catholics are retarded.
What does that have to do with anything?
Everyone except JW and some pentecostals believes in the Trinity, as formulated such.

No, God is totally omnipotent, it is humans who are not omnipotent, and, most importantly, who lack the Holy Spirit. Because we lack God's spirit, we often do not understand what it is God wants of us: you yourself said that intuition should only be trusted from "qualified sources". This implies that there are unqualified sources, such as false teachers (e.g. Arius).

Yes, there is intuition involved, but the intuition derives from one's knowledge and practice of the Holy Mysteries, and in the wisdom of the Apostles and their successors.

thankfully the fathers crafted miraculous magic rituals that we can conduct to protect ourselves from ghosts and demons

Based

Then there is still the threat of false teachers, who many have been deceived by; for that, we must rely upon the Holy Spirit to manifest itself through the Church, passing down divine truth from the time of the Apostles. Simply put: if a doctrine is contrary to that given to the Apostles by Christ, then it is a lie, and the Holy Spirit will protect the Church from this lie, for the gates of Hell cannot prevail against the Church.

What, why would Napoleon say that? I had to look it up, and it's actually real.

Fucking heretic. No wonder based Britain put him in his place.

I've read the bible, but I'm not a full practising Christian.
I believe that God is One, the "Holy Spirit" is the personification of God's power, and Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Messenger of God, and God acts through him.
All of Jesus' miracles were really done by God, through Jesus.

Arianism is the best choice well done

you should repent right now

welcome to Islam, masha'Allah brother

If Arianism is true, then Christ was lying, and therefore Arius' doctrine is false. For Christ proclaimed that the Church would never fall to false doctrine, and the Church condemned Arius.

>people actually buy into this kind of sophistry

>the new testament is reliable

so the apostles were the original archmages?
are you saying that the omnipotent god needed human assistance to overthrow the demons who ruled the earth?

seems like a suspicious turn of events, that the archmages created mantras and tantric jujus to determine the nature of the holy magysterium, since it's indistinguishable from demon magic otherwise. what if they took the demon's power for themselves to enslave the world in turn? since we only have the word of the archmages to go on, it seems plausible that there was never any god to begin with

>constantine was arian
>literally whole christian world was arian
>until a bunch of butthurt monks made up bullshit about trinity and retconned shit about jesus
>hurr durr arianism is wrong

kys

kek what kind of an argument is that

There is no existing Arian Church from ancient times, even if what you said was true, then that just makes the whole of Christianity false.

Also, no bishop was an Arian.

And your alternative is to blindly trust whoever claims to come in the name of the Lord?

Simple, if Arianism was true, why would God allow it to die out?

typical christian sophistry

>theological darwinism

>what is islam

>Also, no bishop was an Arian.
Nigga, what?
Of course there were.
If there was no bishop who believed this stuff, the entire movement could just be excommunicated as laymans.
Besides, here is a pretty famous arian bishop
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulfilas

Theological Darwinism makes sense in a religion in which the God/prophet (depending on your take) says that the gates of Hell will never prevail against the true doctrine.

The alternative is to say that the gates of Hell won.

Similarly, if Jesus was the messiah, son of god, etc etc why would God (ie Jesus himself) allow him to die?

Check mate

so every religion that exists today is true?

Islam isn't Arianism. The Arians believed that Christ was the supreme created being.

Because it was necessary to ransom humanity.

Even Arians believe this.

And the muslims attribute to Jesus greater things than they attribute to Mohammad, including a virgin birth, calling him the Word of God, and the messiah.

This is why you're losing followers in the west.

>Because it was necessary to ransom humanity.
this is fanfiction tier

Again, if you think that's wrong, then you are just agreeing with me that Arius was wrong. Arius did believe that Christ was the Messiah.

>And your alternative is to blindly trust whoever claims to come in the name of the Lord?
no no, i totally get it, a cabal of ancient wizards determined the correct spells and incantations to defeat demons, i'm with you there
i'm saying where did the wizards get their power? sure they CLAIM that it's from the fourth dimensional but how can you verify since they hold exclusive access to non-demontainted gnosis from beyond time and space?
kinda shady

have you lost all semblance of a working rational faculty?

It's the heart of Christianity.

You're free to disbelieve it, and then you're stuck with the consequences of your unbelief. You're not free to disregard those.

Arians believe that Christ was the Messiah and that his death and resurrection ransomed humanity from sin, user.

aaaaand so?

The argument is about whether Arianism is correct. If you think that it's correct, I don't get why you're arguing against it.

>Water, water vapor, Ice.

You're retarded.