Is waiting until marriage for sex really such a big deal...

Okay.
What if she's completely incompatible with you and you don't know until you're already locked in? Tell me about that.

What is "completely incompatible"?

Quit projecting your repression onto everyone else.

I guess you won't figure that out until it's too late.

>thinks sexual pleasure is important
You don't?

>Quit projecting your repression onto everyone else.

Could you explain?

Well, he doesn't know. He comes across like he's trying to turn his repression into a badge of moral superiority.

Because you quite clearly don't know jack shit about sex yet here you are moralizing to everyone about it and projecting your repressed instincts onto them like it's either your way or degeneracy.

No, I mean it. What do you think "compatible" means and why is it important.

No. Sexual pleasure is not something you should seek as a good.
I'm not exactly the only person who says this.

Didn't Buddha say that craving for pleasure leads to suffering?
Didn't Epicurus say that craving unnecessary desires (such as the desire for sexual pleasure) lead to pain? He was a celibate.
Didn't the Stoics hold that pleasure is not a good but being indifferent to it is a good? Meaning that not desiring pleasure is virtuous?
Didn't Aquinas write about why Chastity is important?

I mean about "sexual compatibility". Please, do me a favor and explain about it. Imagine I'm an alien. What is it and why is it important? Then, we can argue over if this is important.

Like, it's okay if you have no sex drive or anything, or if you completely repress it, but keep it to yourself, stop acting like you're the height of virtue for not getting laid, as if you could.

Virginity is valuable, it has much less to do with marriage than it does laying claim to a virgin, the marital structure provides a social method to secure a virgin, without virginity marriage is utterly worthless as a social phenomenon.

That is really all there is to it, men like virgins, marriage used to guarantee virginity.

>Like, it's okay if you have no sex drive or anything, or if you completely repress it, but keep it to yourself,
So, someone can defend that everyone should have lots of sex, but I should not defend that people should instead try to be more chaste? Why should only one point of view be allowed to be defended?

>stop acting like you're the height of virtue for not getting laid, as if you could.
I'm not even talking much about myself. I'm saying that chastity is a virtue.

At this point its just an out for the sexually repressed and the wizards of this world. I have had sex, but I could have easily not have had sex and the low number of times I have had sex is for lack of trying. I am currently very career oriented, I come from a very civilized family (ie aside from "the talk" we dont talk about sex), I'm not fat, I've had multiple girls interested so I can't be that ugly, I move a lot, I have unrealistic standards, and I have been trying to avoid the expense and drama that relationships inevitabley bring into your life. I am almost to a more stable point in my life, so I will join the dating pool probably next year. People I have known have been getting married since 18, people I work with who are my age or in their late 20s have kids already.
So waiting until marriage for sex is not a big deal at all. I think doing it for the shear purpose of staying a virgin is dumb. But sex doesnt drop into people's laps as easily as it does in the movies. Just masturbate and don't look for a relationship then BAM you are a wizard Harry.

Even if he's projecting and preeching, that's not a refutation to his valid point.

citation fucking needed.

working together is instinctual for humans. granted if we were all fucking each other without protection it would have some negative consequences but dont equate chastity with civilization

>a cruel repressing of one's instincts
Literally the foundation upon which civilization is built.

>Sexual pleasure is not something you should seek as a good.
Why does it exist then?

>sexual incompatibility
What a ludicrous meme. There are fewer blatant forms of "sexual incompatibility" in this world than homosexuality, yet that's never gotten in any homosexual 's way.

Penis goes into vagina.
It's that simple.

>working together is instinctual for humans.
If working together is instinctual then so is clubbing each other over the heads during bouts of road rage.

Yeah, I definitely see no problem with marrying a woman who'll only have sex with me like twice a month.

I'd imagine it was a lot easier way back when people got married much earlier. I mean I can imagine enduring it if I had married at 17-19, but not if I had married in my late 20s or beyond.

Also the fuck is going on in that pick. Is that vampire boy? Did he leave scissors girl for his cuckoo sister? I stopped following that show when snake girl destroyed the world.

A). Married couples have less sex regardless.
B). You shouldn't be wasting your life stimulating your pleasure centers in the first place. Get a job, get a hobby, get a life that extends beyond chasing a sexual high that doesn't even last as long as the high you get from smoking crack.

>Married couples have less sex regardless.
Nice non-answer.
As for the rest, nice strawman. Why do you look down on sexual pleasure so much anyway?

People who marry virgins have the best odds of a successful marriage

This simple, common sense, morally neutral fact (like gravity) drives liberals INSANE because it makes them feel like they're being personally attacked

Pretty much this.

Sexual incompatibility is a thing, and sex isn't just sticking your dick in a vagoo and pumping until you're done. You're not a fucking animal.

Most of this thread reads like a bunch of virgins trying to justify their "chastity" as a choice and moral decision. Or a bunch of Catholics.

Men would get married in their mid to late 20s too though.They weren't forced as hard to be virgins like girls were all the time tbqh. It was only girls who almost exclusively did it latest 19.

>I can't help but see it as a cruel repression of one's instincts.
Is that how you view laws against homicide too? Human nature sucks and in case you haven't realized nature sucks at making societies.

I think one theory is if sex was painful or didn't release endorphins, we wouldn't do it nearly as often. Thus, lowering potential for higher populations to develop. However, this is based on a time with a lack of birth control.

Bonding point between married couples.

>nature sucks at making societies
Elaborate.

Let's say, for instance, I like oral. A lot. It's my favorite thing. I marry a woman, who under no circumstances, will ever put her mouth anywhere near my body, aside from kissing. Or let's say she can't really orgasm when she's lying on her back, and I refuse to try any other position than missionary. Or let's say she has a heightened libido, while mine is less and I only want to have sex may be twice a month, while she wants to make love every night.

All of these thing will leave one partner feeling unsatisfied, and becomes a point of contention. Now in a perfect marriage, the two would discuss it, come to a compromise, and start to have a more fulfilling sex life. But as we know, most marriages aren't perfect, and you can damn well bet it's going to become a constant source of strife.

Because he's a kissless virgin who is trying to justify his lack of sexual and romantic experience as some sort of moral virtue.

Hey, stawmanning is fun, isn't it?

So, basically, it is a problem that happens when one of the partners cares about sexual pleasure too much. In other words: lacks chastity...

See, the problem in your examples is not that "they married without knowing what they like". It is that their values suck and they care too much about pleasure. When you are chaste and you marry someone who values chastity, you are unlikely to face this problem. The problem happens when one or both is a hedonist.

>building a strawman to accuse me of strawmanning
Epic.

>waaaaaaaaah my cummies

>Married couples have less sex regardless
Not in my personal experience. But even if it were true (btw, proofs), I'd bet it's due to most married couples being OLDER than unwed couples. A teenager is gonna be hornier (and way more fuckable) than a 45 year old.

>Sexual incompatibility
Is this a women's magazine or is it the Humanities board? What is next? Horoscope discussion?

>Nice non-answer.
It's not a non-answer user, the most common complaint you hear from men who get married is that they have way less sex with their wives than they did when they first started dated. If your partner isn't having sex with you it's because they are not as attracted to you, not because you're "incompatible".

>Why do you look down on sexual pleasure so much anyway?
because there's more to life than a thirty second orgasm? Why do you consider sexual pleasure to be so important?

Not him but you're retarded

Not him but sexual pleasure is an inherent part of human life, and as a matter of fact one that has been proven to be very powerful.
No amount of warped standards, religious dogmas, active suppression and mental gymnastics are going to change that.

While we're at it why don't we freeze our sperm and cut off our balls, that way we'll still be able to reproduce but won't have to deal with that devilish sex drivd anymore.

>Sexual incompatibility is a thing, and sex isn't just sticking your dick in a vagoo and pumping until you're done. You're not a fucking animal.
I sure hope you're religious because there's no secular justification to claim that you're anything else.

>sexual incompatibility

Lol

Nah, just did it for shits and giggles, I rarely do. It's kind of low.
Though it's starting to look pretty true

Because you're obsession with sex is unnatural and fueled by The fucking jews

How is this a response to what I wrote?

Do you think that everyone ever in the history of mankind cared about sexual pleasure as much as you do?

>Sexual incompatibility
Meaningless buzzwords

>le ebin humans are just animals meme
*tips fedora*

>sexual pleasure is a part of human life

Not really

Staying a virgin until marriage may be stretching it, but sexual conservatism overall has worked out very well for the last century or so and has paid dividends to the societies that practice it. In fact, the only reason why it has started to "fall apart" is because we have some very echo-y academics who have been attempting to deconstruct the sexual sphere for 50 years or so.

>Do you think that everyone ever in the history of mankind cared about sexual pleasure as much as you do?
You want a serious answer? Yes.
I find it hilarous how you and others in this thread have been so quick to judge others as being completely obsessed by sex, even though there is no indication of it whatsoever.

The great majority of married couples stop having much sex at all in the first 5 years, are they all "sexually incompatible"?

Only virgins and people who aren't having sex are obsessed with sex user.
To someone who IS having sex, hearing people treat sex as the most important thing in the world and complain about they can't be happy unless they're getting blowjobs at just the right angle and position, is like hearing someone claim hamburgers are the most important thing in the world and it's TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT that the server gets their autistically precise order just right or they'll throw a fit.

It's ridiculous and the only thing more ridiculous to be accused of being a virgin for being burned out on the whole sex obsession thing.

Just stop it dude

Reading history most people werent as nearly as obsessed with sex ad you guys are

Reading history most people werent as nearly as obsessed with sex as you guys are

Feel free to provide a secular argument proving otherwise.

So fucking true. If somebody actually wants you and you want them they'll gladly do whatever weird shit you want during sex. Shit, most chicks who say "I don't do X" are just trying to weed out the faggots.

You're a pervert. Who's this obsessed with sex? Yeah it's a tad better than fapping with the right person, but to put this much thought into getting your rocks off is just creepy. We're not bonobos.

Most people didn't forgo sex, and of I had to place a bet I'd say they were quite fond of it.
>obsessed
There you go again. But yeah, if having sex with my girlfriend I am in a committed relationship with means I am obsessed, I accept this label. I don't really care.

Why do fedoras think that the only reason people have morals, convictions, beliefs, and principles is religion? Are they mentally ill?

A few days ago I argued with this effeminate liberal college kid who claimed East Asian dislike of homosexuals is "internalized homophobia from the christian west".

My wife waited, and I think it's contributed positively to our marriage. The fact that we (or rather, I) learned how to spend time with a romantic partner aside from having sex, really helped us realize that we were right for each other, and shared a lot of the same passions and opinions.

I've been in plenty of relationships where after the initial "cant keep your hands off each other," phase wore out, the relationship petered and generally ended. I even dated a girl I hated for an extra 6 months because she was so gorgeous and the sex was fantastic. But with my wife it was different. We genuinely liked being around each other, and aside from kissing, there was no great desire to just fuck and then do my own thing, which is what most relationships seemed to turn into for me. We did things together and then just went home. I'm doing a bad job at describing it, but it was great.

There were a few times it got rough though
>the first time I saw her in a bikini
>the first time went went somewhere fancy
>everytime it got warm she wore nothing but shorts, and had great legs and a beautiful ass
>when we'd lay on the couch and watch movies
>when she turned 21 and got drunk and admitted she's always wanted to give head but I didn't let her
Shit was trying. There were a few times at the beach I had to disappear and take matter into my own hands or my head was going to explode.

And our honeymoon? Forget it, we went insane. Whole first year of marriage was like that too.
>mfw the whole month after we got married

>a cruel repression of one's instincts

This is one of the main points of serving God. It's why people fast. You're an animal, and it's instinctual for you to eat, but you overcome your base instincts and consciously choose to refrain from eating for a period of time, even if it causes you pain.

It's the same principle for abstaining from sex. Living according to God's ideal, you should only be having sex if it's for the purpose of procreation, and you should only be procreating with a partner you have vowed to love and protect and not abandon.

I'm not saying I live up to this ideal, but there it is.

Because in the west most people who advocate abstinence before marriage are religious.

Hey, fuck YOU, beef is serious business.

But seriously though, I know at least one perma virgin who acts like sex is beneath him, and not that he doesn't get laid because he's overweight, autistic, and never leaves the house except to work a 5 hour shift at Burger King every week.

He's my cousin. It's sad, he was such a cool guy in high school. He got diagnosed with diabetes last year and refuses to treat it or change his dietary habits ,which is burgers and pizza. Seriously that's all he eats. It's sad that the kid I grew up with will be dead before we're 40, but he's been dead inside for the last 15 years at least.
FYI, I think
>*tips fedora*
Is being said facetiously to mock secularism, implying that poster is indeed religious.

When I think of sex, it's like all my attention and willpower is being dragged forcibly from the center of my being and thrown at the idea of the act. I try to work and one wrong thought or image can pull my mind away. I find myself fantasizing for an hour, and for what? I just sit there aroused dreaming dreams that will never come true. I pleasure myself and the thoughts go away for a while but now I am tired. I don't have time for a relationship at this point in my life, and even if I did I would just waste way more time on sex. So my options are chastity or casual sex? Then I choose to control, not to indulge.

You do care too much about sex. To the point that you consider what kind of sex acts your spouse likes to be very important.

Your choice of a partner for life depends on a large part on how well that person can please your genitals. You give that amount of importance to sexual pleasure.

>You give that amount of importance to sexual pleasure.
Of course I do. As any healthy person I like sex, and if I decide to settle down with a person I want to make sure my needs (and theirs) are satisfied. And no, it's not my only criterion for choosing a partner, far from it. Feel free to believe I'm just a sick individual if you will.

You said before that you believe everyone ever in the history of mankind cared about sexual pleasure as much as you do.

But you do consider important as a criterion on who to marry (an important decision), how well that person can please your genitals. Do you truly believe that everyone ever in the history of mankind cared about sex as much as you do to this point?

At this point I'm convinced you have this ideal, pure and special waifu in your head that you will never meet because people are people and people suck, and you're too far up your own ass to enjoy life and being a human.

This thread is interesting because it is an example of what Plato would call the Democratic Man.

>Neither does he receive or let pass into mind any true word of advice; if any one says to him that some pleasures are the satisfactions of good and noble desires, and others of evil desires, and that he ought to use and honour some and chastise and master the others --whenever this is repeated to him he shakes his head and says that they are all alike, and that one is as good as another.
>and as the result of all, see how sensitive the citizens become; they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority and at length, as you know, they cease to care even for the laws, written or unwritten; they will have no one over them.

Temperance was defended as a virtue. No word was spoken about creating laws or rules against sex outside of marriage. But just saying that temperance is a virtue, that temperance is good for you, what was the reaction?

Ad hominem attacks. Angry texts such as:

>Everyone who says this is a repressed virgin, fuck you.

Not everyone is a super hedonist, who thinks sexual pleasure is the greatest thing in life.

>you're too far up your own ass to enjoy life and being a human.
Do you believe over indulging in pleasures is the best way to enjoy life?

>Do you truly believe that everyone ever in the history of mankind cared about sex as much as you do to this point?
Not everyone, as evidenced by this thread, but I'm fairly certain most people did care about how well their partner could satisfy them, barring those who only married for economic or political reasons.

Good post. Far too often, I see my friends who are staying with girls just for the sex, even if the girl isn't particularly a great person.

>Do you believe over indulging in pleasures is the best way to enjoy life?
Yes, this is why I overeat.

So, in your opinion, for most of history, people cared if they wives did blowjobs and such and that they always viewed marriage in the same way as post-60's Americans did?

Considering that the white race is dying and Islam is taking over Europe as well, we should be encouraging more white people to have more sex and have more kids to prevent our extinction.

How long ago were you married?

Are you asking if they wanted to be sexually satisfied? Yeah. What kind of question is that?
Man, I was raised as a Catholic and I swear to god not even they demonize pleasure so much. I even remember one priest talking about the bliss of the bridal bed, or something like that.

Is this really the history board?
Have you never studied how marriages worked in say... Ancient Athens?

5 years now.
It's shitty but it's what most guys want out of a relationship. My wife actually taught me that you can have a fulfilling relationship without it, and once we did have sex we already appreciated so more more than each other's bodies. It enriched our love and appreciation for each other.
What do you consider as super hedonistic? What is over indulging? Is having sex casually once a month hedonistic? Once a week? Every day? I feel like you two are arguing different points.
/pol/ pls

>What do you consider as super hedonistic?

To care too much about sexual pleasure, like the person I'm talking with seems to. To let sexual pleasure dictate who you would marry.

Casual sex even once is hedonistic.

*so much more

That's a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. How often do you masturbate? How much porn do you watch? How many times a day do you think about sex, honestly?

>That's a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.
Why?

Keep denying it, but Sharia is going to take over Europe. It already has taken over France and Germany.

I think he's referring to your casual sex even once is hedonistic statement.

I actually agree with you that caring too much about sexual pleasure to the point of letting dictate who you would marry is a bad thing.

Everyone should read this, in order to have an understanding about how sexual morals changed in the last few decades.

firstthings.com/article/2014/12/is-sex-necessary

This change has had plenty of negative consequences.

i'm out, for now (I'm one of the anons that wrote the largest amount of posts here)

So?
We will just have white sharia :^)

You wanna talk about arranged marriages? Good.
Do you think a father would choose a bride who'll only agree to have sex once in a blue moon for his son, if he could somehow find out about that in advance? Or that most men would be glad to have such a woman for a wife? That's discounting the fact it was the "wife's duty" to satisfy their husband in many societies, so he could always force himself on her.
Of course if we reverse the genders the same thing applies.

Look, the bottom line is this: since sex is so irrelevant, would you marry someone who'll NEVER have sex with you? Don't forget that if you say no you're just being a hedonist who's letting his 'low instincts' choose for him.