What is the most intelligent, believable, philosophically profound account of religion you have found yet, Veeky Forums?
Is it Mahayana Buddhism or Christianity or something else? What authors? Kierkegaard?
I have a shitty situation where I CANNOT live without religion, something pulls me towards it, but at the same time, I have a hard time believing in any religion because it always contains some crazy ritual thing that doesn't make sense.
Any recommendation? What historical/literary sources you found that were most compelling and even made you religious?
>The Selfish Gene. Well OK I will read it. Thank you.
Dominic Evans
Taoism is definitely the most "prodound" or "believable" as it is logical and unmisakeable truth
Wyatt Johnson
I love the Zhuangzi It has brilliant philosophers like Zhuangzi, and then the "religious" side of Daoism with is batshit insane. Pursuing literal immortality etc. I don't even know if the two are the same thing. How do we even know Zhuangzi was a "Daoist"?
Zachary Phillips
G.K. Chesterton Master Race
Levi Perry
I've been reading up on Chink philosophy recently. I sort of understand Confucianism but can you explain Taoism a bit for me and the concept of "Heaven" in Chinese philosophy?
Jason Thompson
Ancient aliens.
Not even memeing. The sky fathers will one day return to usher in a global utopia.
Lincoln Gonzalez
...
Jose Anderson
>can you explain Taoism a bit for me and the concept of "Heaven" in Chinese philosophy Sure, I will try, although I am no expert. When Daoist philosopher say "Heaven", they usually mean it as the order of existence that is self-so; so whatever is so by itself, spontaneously --- like the principles of Nature. While the opposite of Heaven is whatever is contrived, planned, by human beings.
Daoism is really about this: how to attain nature-like spontaneity WITHOUT having to become an animal. Is it possible?
I think Daoism reaches its peak in Guo Xiang's philosophy. He thinks it's possible to stay in society while at the same time be completely spontaneous, self-so.
Josiah Hill
>What is the most intelligent, believable, philosophically profound account of religion you have found yet, Veeky Forums? Hinduism by far, it's way more expansive and in-depth than any other religion I've found. Most religions talk of God and say to love him, but don't tell you specifically the methods of how to achieve God, how to love him, what the world is, how God relates to the world, how he relates to you, and so on. Hinduism perfectly describes all of this and more. Additionally it's not based off of mere blind faith, but direct perception of the truth is emphasized.
>What historical/literary sources you found that were most compelling and even made you religious? Read the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, as it contains the gist of all Hindu teachings
Ian Hall
Didn't even see this but this user is also correct, the Srimad Bhagavatam answers any religious or metaphysical question you could possibly have.
Benjamin Walker
The works of Plato and Aristotle represent a high point in theology. Pre-Han daoism is respectable.
Neoplatonism and later daoism is shit tier.
Asher Hill
Seconding Chesterton. C.S. Lewis also wrote some dope stuff on Christianity.
Jason Peterson
...
Samuel Garcia
Are you a HareKrishna fag?
My questions to followers of Krishna is:
how do you go from
>Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
(in the Gita)
to the
thousands of rituals, mantras, etc.
you have in Hinduism?*
Luis Ortiz
>The works of Plato and Aristotle represent a high point in theology But they don't offer any... practical religious advice. It's just philosophy.
Ian Lopez
Christianity is only good tier if you're a hermit or a monk and 100% devoted to understanding God, it's shit tier if you're a non-ascetic follower and are just going to parrot apologetics and logical proofs.
Jordan Hill
I might have the same type of problem OP After being a basic teenage-atheist/neo-pagan larper, I got into eastern religions and western ancient philosophy. Then I actually understood the concept of transcendence through taoism and heraclitus. Now I wish I was a proper christian but I can't help but to apply the same concepts of divinity and transcendence into most other religions, in a sort of perennialist/traditionalist way. I've been told I'm a heretic, wat do?
Josiah Perez
> Ancient Aliens Ha! > Not even meaning Ha!
Zachary Fisher
Wait, what do you mean by "practical religious advice"?
By studying the works of Plato and Aristotle, you will have some understanding of the divine. That involves an understanding of morality. Morality is discussed in practical terms by both authors.
If you mean that we will not have a set of rituals to perform, then you are correct. You could try to reinstate and recreate ancient religious rituals I guess, but Platonism doesn't require it. Actually, Platonists should not literally believe in the myths, and I don't see why we can't make new practices today for social purposes.
Personally, I believe the way forward on the question of rituals is to recreate Zhou era ancestor worship. Platonists should acknowledge the validity of ancestor worship, and Chinese texts give very specific details on how to perform the rituals.
In the future, we ought to dress as Zhou-era Chinese, study Platonism, and perform ancestor worship rituals.
Dylan Diaz
>I've been told I'm a heretic, wat do? AUTO-de-fe*. Burn yourself at the stake.
*Got the pun?
Jordan Rivera
This, once you overcome the cultural disconnect you see find that in the various sects and texts there are guides to virtually every sort of religious/metaphysical/mystical experience.
There are different schools of thought in Hinduism, some of which place more or less emphasis on rituals and mantras. I have read the Bhagavad-Gita and Krishna does not say that rituals and the like are worthless or bad but rather that it's better to practice yoga and selfless service instead of spending your effort on rituals. That shouldn't be interpreted as condemning rituals and saying they have no value though.
Austin Gray
Are you part of a Hindu sect? Are you Indian?
Benjamin Nguyen
Nope, I am a white American although I am fairly well-read in eastern philosophy. I may decide to be initiated into some sect someday but I don't have much of a desire to do so right now.
Hinduism is an essentially perennialist religion and can be appreciated by anyone whether they are atheist, agnostic or of any other religious persuasion.
Brody Sanchez
I am mainly repelled by Hinduism because of the Hare Krishna, they do seem like a cult
Christopher Ross
Solipsism, a philosophic theory that says that you are the only human and everything's around you is more a dream than. Quite depressing but fascinating as well. Mindblowing af.
Joshua Martin
>ethical and cosmical dualism >no dumb purity laws
Zoroastrianism obviously
Easton Ramirez
Many Hindus consider them to be a weird cult created by foreigners who misunderstand Hinduism. They are way more outside of India than in India.
Brandon Stewart
So I am God?
Camden Flores
*way more active outside of India
Luis Barnes
> created by foreigners But an Indian created it.
Noah Jones
sun worship makes the most sense in real cosmology, anthropology
the sun literally created the earth and sustains all life on it, it creates cycles of night and day and seasons, it's implacable and distant, etc.
Ayden Taylor
Of course, you are the only existing power and nothing is over or under you.
Sebastian Campbell
>worship >makes sense
Jonathan Allen
My bad, I should have said "spread by" or "perpetuated" by foreigners.
It is not very popular in India and most Indians just worship Krishna the regular way through the Vaishnavite tradition.
Ethan Sullivan
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
Dylan Cox
That's not "intelligent, believable, philosophically profound" though. That's just a nonsensical assertion.
Brandon Hughes
It's only nonsensical if you have not been given understanding through the working of the Holy Spirit.
Jordan Mitchell
Did something happen to you early on that caused you to mistakenly believe that other people would take you seriously?
Isaac Stewart
Jesus Christ is Lord. You know this in your heart but you are repressing it.
Nathan Barnes
"This is the path, there is no other that leads to vision." (Dhammapada 274)
Nolan Cook
Buddha was just a wise man. Christ was/is God. Who has the final word?
Zachary Sanders
Christianity's theology conceptualizes God to be an impersonal, formless spirit. Because he is formless, you need a logos, or Christ, in order to access him. As such, most of Christianity focuses on Christ and not God himself because the philosophy is set up in a way that Christ is crucial to understand God. God does possess this formless state but it is not his highest, original state of being.
God's original and highest state is his personality, his personal form. If you approach the topmost, personal form of God you do not need a logos to access him, as you simply approach the source. Similarly, the names of God are nondifferent from his personal form. We can call God "Father" but if we want to address him directly we must use his actual name, be it Krishna, Allah, or any other name of God.
Neoplatonism is quite accurate but it is imperfect in the sense that it describes God impersonally and additionally does not prescribe a method for reaching God. Without a practice, all the knowledge is useless. Hinduism is superior in this sense as it not only accurately describes God, but extensively lays out yogic practices.
David Brooks
>be it Krishna, Allah, or any other name of God. No.
Kayden Myers
So you want to reach God with breathing exercises? :)
Grayson Brooks
gross
neo-platonists should just call themselves plotinians or something. stop sullying Plato's good name.
Isaiah Taylor
Take the Zoroatrianism pill friendo
Eli Clark
In this age that meditational system utilizing breath control cannot be properly executed. Instead, all of the perfections of that system can be realized through bhakti-yoga, the sublime process of devotional service unto God, specifically mantra-yoga, the glorification of Sri Krsna through the chanting of Hare Krsna. The mind must be always fixed on God. Insofar as our mind is absorbed in thoughts of Krsna, we have attained the perfection of yoga.
The word yoga literally means "union" or "linking up" and refers to the soul attaining union with the God. The aim of the yoga system Krsna describes in the Bhagavad Gita is threefold: to control the senses, purify one's activities, and to link one to Krsna in a reciprocal relationship. It is the mind that carries the conditioned soul from body to body, therefore yogic practice is prescribed to restrain the mind so that at the moment of death the soul remembers God, and subsequently returns to him.
Andrew Baker
> the glorification of Sri Krsna through the chanting of Hare Krsna I knew you would reveal yourself... You people spread your cult on /x/, didn't know you were active here, too.
Matthew Perez
top tier: >buddhism >zoroastrianism >jainism high tier: >taoism >mohism >shinto & shinto-buddhism mid-tier: >hinduism >sikhism >confucianism >american and african folk religion low-tier: >judaism >paganism trash-tier: >neo-anything >all other abrahamic faiths, especially american ones
Thomas Lee
>judaism higher than Christianity Hello, Schlomo.
Brody Morris
This, but non-ironically. The religion of your ancestors is the best religion for you.
William Jackson
That sounds like a shitty version of Pure Land practice
Brody Brooks
This. Hare Krishna is a shitty version of Pure Land Buddshim, which in turn is a shitty version of Christianity.
Daniel Hughes
You know in your heart religion is bullshit and you're lying to yourself
Connor Stewart
>Hare Krishna is a shitty version of Pure Land Buddshim, which in turn is a shitty version of Christianity.
Nicholas Long
>describes God impersonally and additionally does not prescribe a method for reaching God. Neither of those statements are true. Like Hinduism it describes God both personally (saguna) and impersonally (nirguna). As for methods of realization see: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theurgy
Austin Torres
Which is better in your opinion: Viashnavism or Shaivism?
Jayden Green
Vaishnavism*
Jacob Jones
Hare Krishnas are a cancer to Hinduism. Any lurkers, please don't let them off put you from Vedantic or Hindu philosophy and practices because there is much genuine wisdom to be found.
Jace Kelly
Vaishnavism, Shiva is the highest of the Demigods, but still supreme
Vaishnavas make up the biggest subschool within Hinduism, what are you talking about
ISKCON itself adheres entirely to Vaishnava philosophy, to discount the Hare Krishnas is to discount not only Vaishnavism but also legitimate books such as the Gita.
Josiah Young
but still not the supreme*
Nicholas Diaz
I never understood this; why do atheists insist that they are some manner of enlightened?
I get you're responding to somebody but I've seen this sort of post without solicitation plenty times.
Joshua Anderson
Exactly, Heil Wotan
Kevin Fisher
Christianity.
Daniel Ramirez
What if your of mixed descent or your ancestral beliefs are unknown because they were possibly wiped out?
Jason Lee
I've been reading up on Satanism and it's pretty interesting. I think the church of satan is a bunch of retarded edgelords but the philosophy behind it is actually something I could get behind. Someone tell me why my opinion is shit.
Tyler Thompson
any mysticism tantrism
experimenting the divine through action and awakening of the inner forces.
everything else is mental rubbish
throw the books as if they were burning
Robert Williams
Why do you post this same shit every day? It's even different every time. But it always boils down to >I think religion is stupid but I want it help me pick one.
It's every fucking day with you, please stop.
Elijah James
>ISKCON itself adheres entirely to Vaishnava philosophy, to discount the Hare Krishnas is to discount not only Vaishnavism but also legitimate books such as the Gita.
I don't know much about the Hare Krishna but I've seen Indians on /pol/ who can read Sanskrit who say that the ISKCON translation of the Gita is inaccurate.
Camden Rodriguez
The funny thing is, it's the first time I post this So there must be someone else posting the same thing I woulldn't lie about it (why would I? it's an user board)
Easton Hill
>Christianity's theology conceptualizes God to be an impersonal, formless spirit. No it doesn't. That may be an accurate characterization of the Absolute as conceived by Spinoza or Hegel, but it is the opposite of Christian theology. Christianity focuses more on Christ because of its soteriology than its theology proper (though there are also some theological reasons why Christ is represented more, having to do with the distinction between the deus absconditus vs. the deus revelatus). But Christians presuppose a personal God. They deny only the ability of man to comprehend absolutely His essence ("finitum non possit capere infinitum"). The questons on the knowability of God posed by the scholastics who spoke of Him as the Incomprehensible One were: "An sit deus?" "Quid sit deus?" and "Qualis sit deus?" The only question to which it was conceived that there could be no answer was the second, which really concerns His essence: what makes God to be what He is? What is the nature of His inner constitution? This is what cannot be approached by man.
But by the very nature of God as a revealed God, it is necessary that He be personal. It is not necessary that He be incarnate -- and, indeed, He was not incarnate during the entirety of the Old Covenant administration. Yet He was always considered personal. Revelation occurred before the Logos, who prior to the incarnation, and indeed with respect to His deity, is formless. His communicable attributes and the doctrine that man possesses the imago Dei are impossible if He is not personal. He can be communicated with as a person. The anthropomorphic and anthropopathic representations of God in Scripture attest to His personality. His knowledge, wisdom, mercy, grace, truth, and love attest to His personality.
Carson Edwards
Moreover, Christianity's conceptions of the names of God are not quite the way you describe. It is true that in the SINGULAR sense "the name of God" refers to the whole manifestation (or personality: hint, hint) of God, and thus has similarities to the idea in Eastern thought that a name is not a mere vocable, but an invocation of the essence of a thing. But when referring either in the singular or in the plural sense of the name or names of God, Christians still have as their reference point the revelation of God. Thus it is not the infinity of His divine essence, but His self-condescension to our form of understanding that we have any name at all for Him, for He is nameless and yet has many names. And of the many names He has provided for us, there are a mixture of proper names, His attributes as they are revealed to us, and his "nomina personala," His personal names (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). We have many proper names for him: El, Elohim, Elyon, Adonai, Shaddai, Yahweh, Yahweh Tsebhaoth, Theos, Kurios, Pater, et al. And we name Him just as properly by His attributes: The Most High, Most Glorious, Most Infinite, Most Wise, Most Just, Most Holy, Most Free, Most Absolute, etc.
But we cannot delve into or invoke the divine essence, such that there is no name in any tongue by which we can access God as He is in His infinite Self. That is not at all a Christian idea, but a pantheistic one.
Christopher Clark
I would have to specifically read the verses they talk about to comment on that.
I do know that there is some argument about the latest edition of Prabhupada's translation because some words were altered from his 1972 translation, but the changes are minor grammar changes at best from what I have seen.
Christian Flores
The only thing the bible is useful for is wiping your ass after taking a big, creamy, messy shit
Brandon Thomas
This thread:
>"When Daoist philosopher say "Heaven", they usually mean it as the order of existence that is self-so; so whatever is so by itself, spontaneously --- like the principles of Nature. While the opposite of Heaven is whatever is contrived, planned, by human beings."
>"I actually understood the concept of transcendence through taoism and heraclitus. Now I wish I was a proper christian but I can't help but to apply the same concepts of divinity and transcendence into most other religions, in a sort of perennialist/traditionalist way."
>"I have read the Bhagavad-Gita and Krishna does not say that rituals and the like are worthless or bad but rather that it's better to practice yoga and selfless service instead of spending your effort on rituals. That shouldn't be interpreted as condemning rituals and saying they have no value though."
>"God's original and highest state is his personality, his personal form. If you approach the topmost, personal form of God you do not need a logos to access him, as you simply approach the source."
>"The aim of the yoga system Krsna describes in the Bhagavad Gita is threefold: to control the senses, purify one's activities, and to link one to Krsna in a reciprocal relationship. It is the mind that carries the conditioned soul from body to body, therefore yogic practice is prescribed to restrain the mind so that at the moment of death the soul remembers God, and subsequently returns to him."
>"The questons on the knowability of God posed by the scholastics who spoke of Him as the Incomprehensible One were: "An sit deus?" "Quid sit deus?" and "Qualis sit deus?" The only question to which it was conceived that there could be no answer was the second, which really concerns His essence: what makes God to be what He is? What is the nature of His inner constitution? This is what cannot be approached by man."
And then there's YOUR contribution.
Henry Mitchell
Yes. I'm very proud :^)
Christopher Peterson
that user was making a profound statement as to the worth of a mere book (physical object), when in fact the letter killeth and only the spirit givety life. clearly his intention is to draw our attention toward the holy church's tradition which is prior to scripture and in fact produced it. his extreme manner of expression was meant forstly to filter out superficial edgelords like yourself who can't look pst the exterior appearance of his post, and secondly in order to shock us from our passive and "lukewarm" stupor―for christ detests the lukewarm, as revealed in the book of revelation.
James Foster
The perennial philosophy by Aldous Huxley with it's implications for Christianity. If mysticism is the truth, and Christianity is mystical, that means that Jesus was an ordinary mortal who achieved a state of constant divine consciousness. This means that perhaps, the purpose of our human life is to reach a similar state. Looking at the Gospel through new eyes, the Holy Ghost may have been misinterpreted. It is not a specter who makes you feel bad when you commit transgressions, but is instead the Divine Judge of Humanity, a second Christ.
Carson Jackson
I am here to shill for Stoicism. Read Mediations.
Gabriel Gray
Everyone with an ideology would rather believe that their opponents are dishonest and secretly agree with them, who are only objecting out of spite or some other moral failing.
Jayden Perez
I've had lots of experiences with God and I never found any religion that kinda matched.
Mason Harris
describe those experiences as best as you can, if you dont mind
Dominic Richardson
The same reason that religious people do. Brainlets think they have everything figured out despite not practicing even the shallowest self criticism.
>Zen Not Buddhism finally somebody who understands
Brody Ramirez
Then the last known religion. If you're mixed, then you have a choice.
Henry Bennett
T. Christcuck
Luke Edwards
Zorastarism.
Daniel Smith
>Bhagavad Gita As It Is >reading the Hare Krishna translation Please no
Ian Roberts
That's silly. A western person trying to larp Zhou-era Chinese is only cringeworthy. By doing that you are abandoning all your own cultures traditions trying to be something that you're not. Combining western philosophy with eastern religions does not work and it shouldn't be done. Ancestoral worship does not belong to any European tradition and it does not make sense since all of your ancestors probably didn't believe in that. You don't nees some bullshit spirituality in order to follow platonism and you don't need to abandon your own culture that the very ancestors of yours created.
Jordan Reyes
>Ancestoral worship does not belong to any European tradition >What is Rome GTFO of my board