The lighting network requires a subscription fee to use. holy shit

are you two actually retarded? all this lightning network talk and you don't even know what the fuck it is?

FUCKING HELL LOL

> Worthless BCC

Ya shitstain, not like it completely wrecked Litecoin and hundreds of other cryptos before it even existed, and has got ripple fighting for 4th place.

Kys

It doesn't. You're just retarded and lack reading comprehension.

Thanks core shill, tell us again how LN is going to magically fix the clusterfuck of transactions so that people can start making SegWit transactions so people can start using LN

they actually want to decrease block size(fact) to keep blocks full and force people to use ln(opinion)

bitcoin cash is going to moon. get in now

...

Stop this fucking madness and buy iota.

Time to liberate ourselves from the bitcoin cartel.

>Essentially they become subscription fees to use Bitcoin, rather than per-transaction fees.

What does this mean to you?

...

holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck

they were waiting for segwit to activate before dropping this bombshell

and lightning is fucking patented so they're the only show in town. they're even suing the segwi2x team to prevent competition. they profit from EVERY bircoin transaction because the 1mb limit prevents on chain transactions

holy fuck, the small block shilling all makes sense now

>fix the clusterfuck of transactions

What the fuck are you even talking about? The mempool backlog? Those transactions get evicted if N hours pass (72 by default) or if they get re-broadcast and validated.

And where have you idiots gotten the idea that LN is subscription-based from I wonder? The comment in the pic perhaps? I know it was, no need to lie. Now re-read it until you realise you are fucking idiots and failed at basic reading comprehension.

So much conviction and time spent astroturfing and you can't even grasp the basics of how bitcoin or the English language works. Nice dunning-kruger effect, brainlets.

Read the entire thread, thats out of context

You are retarded.

FUD harder faggots

It means you are a fucking idiot.

Now re-read the whole comment you're selectively quoting and try think really really really hard, push that little brain to the limit. You've got this.

There's nothing to FUD

Bitcoin is in the banks aka Blockstream's hands

>LN=No more decentralization, only usable by the rich

you dont know what you're talking about

fud harder

KYS shill, Blockstream keeps letting their plans slip because theyre straight up megalomaniacs and you dumbfucks keep sticking up for them

SegWit/LN is the death of Bitcoin

Long live the king

Man you're retarded, the crypto community would be better off without you lying, greedy fucks

So when segwit2x goes through with a hard fork, do I just get my bitcoins on that fork?

I will never pay a subscription, so it's either stop investing in bitcoin or hold my bitcoins so i can have them on the segwit2x fork.

the irony

lol

subscription = goodbye

i dont have to pay a fucking subscription to invest in anything else lol

see you when eth market cap is $500b, shitbird

blockstream is literally suing the segwit2x team using its segwit patents. no idea what will happen to segwit2x. they have an entire legal team on it.

There is no actual subscription. You're just retarded and can't comprehend simple English.

if its not a subscription then why is the word subscription in there dude

>paying fees
>subscription

Same thing you fucking morons how much is Jihan paying you

wow

the idea that you pay a monthly bill to blockstream instead of paying per transaction is *really* bad. do you need me to explain why? it's not the "same thing."

It defeats the whole purpose of bitcoin.

why should one have to pay a subscription fee to pay reasonable fees for transactions that are still slow af.
Gets better if you dont use lighting your paying 5 + a transaction ridiculous

>arguing semantics

Are you people this autistic? You already pay miner's fees. What this does is increase efficiency by having you "load" it essentially. You'll pay fees each week or month before your deposit runs out.

reddit.com/r/btc/comments/6vhxn3/the_lightning_network_actually_seems_awesome_but/dm1ccwo/

Holy fucking shit. But see this isnt going to stop you, you're going to continue to spread propaganda and fud bitcoin until everyone loses confidence in the network and crypto pulls another 2013. All out of greed. Again how much is Jihan paying you stupid fucks?

Most of the people here on biz and sick and fucking tired of your shrill propaganda. Crawl back to r/btc where you belong.

you're paying to open and close a payment hub(subscription) while doing transactions on the lightning network that doesnt pay the miners. who keeps the network secure? the miners do.

honestly just use eth, fuck bitcoin. eth is capped at 100m tokens and gets monero level privacy next month. literally bitcoin 2.0

> 1mb cap to force high transaction fees
> pay the people who forced the cap with censorship and lies a fee to get lower fees

no. just no. they could just prune the blockchain like eth does. but no, suggest any reasonable solution and you get banned from any bitcoin forum controlled by blockstream, which is all the top ones

Because he's talking about the "on-chain fees" of the previous sentence as evidenced by the pronoun "they" and then describing them metaphorically as a "subscription" since you have to do an on-chain tx to initiate a channel.

Try duolingo, I've heard it's great for pajeets and gooks struggling with english:
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.duolingo&hl=en

Holy fucking shit you aren't paying to blockstream you dumb fucking cuck fucking kill yourself.

>crypto pulls another 2013.
literally nothing wrong with this

actually u are though. rusty russell is lightning network's biggest contributor. you mean to tell me there is no economic incentive for blockstream to use ln?

WTF, I HATE SEGWIT BTC NOW!

desu i would cash out my 401k, pay the 40% income tax, plus the 10% early withdrawal fee, and take the remaining $30k and buy coins with it. fuck.

[–]luke-jrLuke Dashjr - Bitcoin Core Developer 29 points 10 hours ago
In the short term, Lightning should reduce on-chain fees significantly.
Essentially they become subscription fees to use Bitcoin, rather than per-transaction fees.
permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply

so yes it is a subscription

better hop on bcc while u can

yeah well thats just liek your opinion man

if it takes money to open a "subscription" then only centralized entities will do it. you'll move your btc to that subscription and then they'll handle transferring it

like a fucking bank

i don want a fucking bank

thats the whole point of crypto

decentralizaiton. this moves us toward centralizaiton.

DO NOT WANT

the whole point of bitcoin was to take out the middleman and here is blockstream trying to become intermediary. fun times

You're hopeless. KYS

Everyone's on to you Jew shill

BCH is going to eat Blockstream's lunch, no fucks given

Blockstream bagholders gonna go fully autistic in less than a week when they realize SegWit doesn't do shit, LN isn't coming this year, and BCH is the real bitcoin

I dont have to pay subscription fees to pay cash to sanjay at the corner store

There's no subscription fee but Bitcoin will become a network of mini networks, where each mini network can charge users however they want.

The lightning network does not require a subscription fee to use. Jesus christ
this

BTC is hopeless. If we wanted the kind of crap they're offereing we would use VISA.

can you explain why the core developer says it is a subscription himself??? i have the quote

[–]luke-jrLuke Dashjr - Bitcoin Core Developer 29 points 10 hours ago
In the short term, Lightning should reduce on-chain fees significantly.
Essentially they become subscription fees to use Bitcoin, rather than per-transaction fees.
permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply

so fuck outta here
blockstream cant censor and charge subscriptions this isnt club penguin

>Everyone's on to you Jew shill
>Projection

LN's fees is going to work like any other network. You pay fees in every fucking network. Its functionally no different. The only difference is that you load your money into a deposit to use as fees asaik. It does not require an actual subscription fee, you dumb fucks

load your money into a deposit

why the fuck would i want to do that

thats called a bank you dumb fuck

kek

>why the fuck would i want to do that

You do that when you want to use the LN network

>thats called a bank
No, that's called the Lightning Network

Do you even understand why the LN exists? Its because people dont want to spend a fuckton of time waiting around for a cup of coffee charge to be verified. Even if we went the Cash route, there still would be significant latency problems.

You say that you want Bitcoin to be P2P transactional based, thats exactly what the LN is aiming to be. You say it can be accomplished with bigger blocks, but its easier said than done and Core devs have experienced the problems with scale. BTC transactions account for the majority of crypto activity today.

You really show a lack of understanding for the network. You seem to think there is some grand conspiracy in the Core dev team, most people just dont see it. There is no reason for them to sabotage their own currency, crypto is still in its infancy and another coin can easily overtake BTC if it shit the bed.

And then theres all the problems Cash has.

> Requires locking funds into a payment channel, like a bank account
> Funds stay locked up until you pay to close the channel, like a bank account
> Fees go to channel provider, who is most likely a bank, banking 2.0
> Provider can force channels closed, require registration, AML/KYC, fully vulnerable to government confiscation

> Its not a fucking bank you faggots REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Well this thread was informative, just traded all my bitcoin for IOTA/ETH

miners seem to be on the move again.
fork.lol/

Your bullshit is so transparent it's pathetic, how much is Back paying you?

>Bitcoin requires putting money into your wallet, like a bank account
>Funds stay locked in your wallet, like a bank account
>Funds go through a channel provider (miners/nodes)
>Miners can quit mining and stifle the network

>LOOK I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT MY ALLEGORIES ARE PERFECT REEEEEEEEEE

Vitalik save us from Bitcoin

LMFAO, it's like watching someone have a stroke over the internet, you don't have a single meaningful argument.

Nice try retard, go back to grade school and learn something

How much is Jhan paying you faggot? I'm just sick and tired of hearing your bullshit. How greedy must you be to fud this much trying to hopelessly crash the network? The flippenning is not going to happen you loser. People can see through your lies and propaganda.

>Hur dur Core is in bed with the banks
>Hur Dur LN = banking!!!111
>Hur dur Cash with mega Chinese blockers is the way to go, even though it makes it even more vulnerable to a 51% attack
>Hur dur theres a conspiracy!!1111
>

...

...

triggered

bch just became more profitable to mine than btc again lol
btcs network will stop working every 2 to 3 days now as the hash rate flip flops forever. mining poils already have automatic switches

So this is the reason they fucked over bitcoin and manipulated and heavily censored forums and blocked development of just increasing the god damn block size years ago. FUCK BLOCKSTREAM.

As far as I'm concerned them patent trolling in crypto is what really puts them over the line. I can't in good conscience support bitcoin anymore.

I heard they are patent trolling Segwit2x, what a bunch of motherfuckers.

Going all in ETH.

Reposting my thing from another thread since I'm lonely there and noone fucking responded to my explanation of the LN

Party B = starbucks
A= You.
You lock up 1 btc by sending it to the LN channel with starbucks.
You buy starbucks 50 times in a month. You're sick of starbucks now, or just want to money back to do something else.
You close the lightning channel. You get whatever 1BTC- 50 starbucks is. Transaction broadcast to the blockchain now. It acts as ONE transaction, despite you making 50. You paid ONE fee. You pay a fee TO THE BLOCKCHAIN (just like you do RIGHT NOW) to open a lightning channel with B.
1 fee for 50 transactions. Instead of on chain, which would be 50 fees for 50 transactions.
That one fee is your subscription to that lightning channel. You paid ONE FEE TO THE MINERS instead of 50.
It is CHEAPER than now.
MINERS LOSE TX MONEY. This is why they hate lightning.

Fuck off shill, I am not locking up my Bitcoins so Blockstream can get Jew Rich.

You can close the fucking channel whenever the fuck you want.

i'm so angry right now

It seems maybe that people are getting confused about the word "subscription" in this context?

Is there a link to a whitepaper or RFC that describes all of this in technical detail?

blockstream gets a small cut for hosting the lighting network. they even said so.

so first they limit the blocksize instead of adding pruning like eth does, then offer a solution to the problem they created for a small fee.

fuck blockstream.

eth is king with pos, sharding, privacy, community first decision making, intrinsic value as a fastest computer, 100m token cap, and more coming soon.

btc is a pump and dump floating on fake tether.

i responded. was going to crosslink your post because it does explain well.

why can't i just buy a coffee? i don't want to open a channel, fund a channel, keep track of all channels and funds and fees. i just want to buy coffee.

...

The current UI is indeed not for mainstream adoption. They need to fix that.
It is still cheaper than on chain.

he's not jewish, he's of 'Reformed Protestant' (a Calvinist branch) ancestry, actually
the same denomination as Orbán :^)

So your saying I should put my BTC into ETH, right?

This thread is moronic, it's no wonder people vote against their own interest

...

Essentially they (the on-chain fees) become (can be regarded as) subscription fees to use Bitcoin, rather than per-transaction fees.

Is how you should read that sentence.

if you had proper reading comprehension you would realize the on-chain fees aren't replaced by a subscription system. because a bunch of your transactions happen in a payment channel that's not on the blockchain, you don't pay transaction fees for them, but the second you want to place them on the blockchain, you pay a fee. So now you are not paying a fee per transaction, you pay a fee to put the end result of the payment channel on the blockchain (which is less than if you to pay for each transaction individually). basically paying to let your payment channel be part of bitcoin, a subscription fee.

...

are you daft, the current system requires you to wait untill your transaction is verified. making people wait every time they want to quickly buy something is really gonna be popular

>lighting network
wmx.wmtransfer.com/

the problem is blockchain gets a cut. they created a problem to solve it for profit and censored people who spoke out against them. they also spread lies like eth being inflationary even though it has a 100m token cap.

im not paying subscription fees to blockstream to use bitcoin, thats fucking gay.

blockstream* gets a cut, fucking tired

>explaining how something works
>shilling
kill yourself you absolute worthless piece of shit. you try to keep people dumb, I hope you die.