I'm planning on starting a dojo as a business and I just want to get some feedback on my pricing model and whether the dojo activities/facilities are worth the price (all prices in AUD). [Would you go to a dojo like this?]
Pricing model is monthly charge with no contract: Adults - $200 Students (over 18) - $150 Children (12 - 18) - $300 (price mainly due to after school care requirements)
Members have unlimited access to the dojo and connected gym from Monday to Friday 4pm to 11pm. 4pm to 6pm is junior classes which also acts as after school care. 6pm to 7pm is a fitness class Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Women's self-defence Tuesday and Thursday. 7pm to 11pm is different classes every hour.
Adults cannot participate in junior classes and under 18s can't participate in adult classes unless accompanied or supervised by a parent. Children can participate in fitness classes though.
what are average costs for after school care in your country? i would split it up further for e.g 3 days per week you pay less than five days per week. what child wants to go to the dojo every day?
James Martin
dojos are great for children I went to a taekwondo school when I was little and they drilled standing up straight doing well in school and life, confidence humility the self defense what you went there for, but the life building skills were much more important.
Gavin Harris
>what are average costs for after school care in your country?
That's a good point.
Average after school care costs in Australia are between $550 and $770 per month ($25-35 a day).
>i would split it up further for e.g 3 days per week you pay less than five days per week.
I don't really want to over complicate the payment system. I'm thinking of just having a table with a folder so people can sign in/sign out. Dealing with accounting for individual days and so on would be a pain in the ass. I'm also running this by myself, so I don't have a receptionist or something to take care of that stuff.
>what child wants to go to the dojo every day?
I went to Judo after school every day for years. It was a blast, there was a park nearby and we played before training. Did some Judo and then waited for parents to pick us up. Some of my fondest memories as a kid.
I was also thinking of providing Japanese lessons and cognitive training.
Isaac Rodriguez
do you have some pedagogic experience or diploma (would definitely be helpful) are there governmental subsidies for after school care? do you meet their requirements?
Dominic Kelly
I was a high school teacher for 3 years and I've instructed children in martial arts for 2 years. I also started a degree in Education, but never finished. I have 3 other degrees though including masters.
Government does provide subsidies, but martial arts classes fall under Unregulated services.
"Certain types of child care are not regulated in Queensland. Generally, these include, but are not limited to:
- activity-specific classes, coaching or tuition"
Tyler Parker
try to think of a way you can get government subsidies and therefore lower prices for families.
i think it definitely could work but you will have to calculate thoroughly how many customers you will need to break even, also be prepared that you will lose money in the first few months.
cannot say anything about the prices though, in my country that would be rather cheap (into several different martial arts since age of 6)
Noah Brooks
I need about 50 students to break even.
What are the prices like in your country, if you don't mind me asking?
Austin Bell
sweet dude if you're setting up a dojo in SEQ hit up your Veeky Forums friends with some discounts
t. some guy who lives near sunnybank
Jacob Wilson
700 for adults for 2 trainings (75min) and 1x sparring (1h with peers) for 4 month of training
Tyler Phillips
I'm looking at a property in Greenslopes.
I currently run classes out of a park in Kelvin Grove. Check out the link if you are interested.
$700 for 4 months? Doesn't sound too bad. I currently pay $160 for my own dojo training a month.
Henry Moore
Bumping for shit that's not coin discussion.
Lucas Powell
Move your womens self defense clases from tuesday and thursday to monday and wednesday.
Thursday is late night shopping, Friday is 'date night'
the dojo across from where i work is closed on thursdays and fridays, open on monday and wednesdays and saturday mornings.
Jason Bennett
...
Hudson Bell
Shit. Guess its time to stop calling Putin Poutine.
Colton Gonzalez
you in Perth, bro? I've been thinking about learning martial arts.
Aaron Brooks
Saturday night? I don't know if people would go for that. I used to run Friday night classes and people were keen. I also see my instructor on Saturdays, so I don't think that will work.
As for women's self-defence, I think I can move around the classes.
Sad thing is it's difficult to gauge his skill level. You never know if the people training with him are holding back because they are scared of getting killed afterwards if they displease him.
Bitcoins are going to be obsolete in the next few decades anyway. As soon as universal basic income comes in governments are going to come up with their own digital currencies.
Brisbane. I know a few dojo in Perth if you want the details?
Hunter Peterson
I go to an MMA club for $40 a month. I'd spit in your Jew face for asking for fucking $200 a month you little shit.
Adrian Adams
Which country?
Nathan Carter
went to martial arts class in my youth paid (youth discounted) 1k € / year, 15 years ago, IIRC open 4 days a week but only in the evening/early night and no extra stuff like gym. I thought my parents were getting jewed to the max, but with your bold price listing, as unestablished Dojo, i guess that's normal in this business lmao
Nicholas James
- You should do 2 formulas, one with gym access and one without (typically make the access to the gym for +25$) - 12-18 class is not really good, should go: >9-12 >13-17 >Adult - if you want extra shekels get sponsored by a brand and set a little shop where people can buy equipment - 150$ is too much for students, my advice is to make a promotionnal offer at 89$/month for 6 months in january for them (most of them will abandon before, guaranteed) - you can make mass shekels on stages with kids during holidays (most upper middle class parents will be ready to pay 700-800$ for you to take care of their kid between 9am and 5pm during 5 days)
Julian Carter
Rent is quite expensive and mats. On average you are looking at 60 - 80k rent a year. Add things like electricity and water, and that's another 10k. Mats, training weapons, gear and so on is another 20k. Those only have a life-span of a few years as well. Instructor wage 70k, assistant instructor wage 40k, insurance 5k, marketing 10k.
That's 235k a year operating costs. That's 20k a month almost. If you have 100 students paying $200 a month the business breaks even. 200 students it would be $100 a month. 400 students you could charge $50 a month.
But you need to remember there is a trade off for paying less. If there are 400 students, you will probably be in classes with 20 or more people. That means the instructor will spend 5 minutes on you on average. You also need to share that space (100m^2) with 20 other people.
Average wage in Australia is 73k a year. I think people would be happy to 2.4k a year to train in comfort with personal attention, rather then $600 for a crowded space and an instructor that ignores you.
>unestablished Dojo
I didn't put it in the OP, but I've been running a dojo from a park for 8 years.
Tyler Cox
Those are some nice ideas. Extra for the gym. I like that.
I personally don't want to deal with kids younger than 12, but changing it from 12 to 17 might be a better idea. In Australia, kids start high school at 12 and finish school at 17. 18 they become legal adults. Due to legal reasons I don't want adults mixing in the kids classes, so I think 12-17 may be a good bet.
I was going to offer equipment and uniforms as part of the sign-up. Most of our training weapons are going to stay in the dojo anyway, but I might ask around if any company wants to sponsor.
I don't really want to lock people into contracts. I always thought that was a scummy business practice. If students really want to train, I think they will pay 150.
Holiday idea is good. It could be a good training opportunity for junior instructors. Just shove the kids onto them and say its leadership training.
Thanks for the ideas.
Gavin Phillips
i believe most clubs of any kind run on "subsidies" from people who sign up, do 2 or 3 months of regular training until the novelty dies away and never come back but don't close the account because they're lazy/forgetful/indecisive.
Rent looks pretty steep for what i assume is going to be mostly open space to be filled with equipment / mats, + some part lockers / bathroom / showers. City, i guess, so building's not really an option?
Hudson Mitchell
I think that is often the clubs fault for not making martial arts interesting. Styles like Karate and Tae Kwon Do are boring as hell, even Judo and BJJ to a certain extent. Doing reverse punches up and down a hall will make anyone want to quit.
My style has striking, grappling, weapons, armour, modern applications and so on. Every class has new techniques and concepts, I hope it will be more engaging than what other styles have on offer.
>Rent looks pretty steep for what i assume is going to be mostly open space to be filled with equipment / mats, + some part lockers / bathroom / showers. City, i guess, so building's not really an option?
Need to remember that it's Australia though. Everybody has a car and nobody uses public transport. You need onsite parking, at least 10 spaces or 20 if you can manage it.
I'd be willing to renovate, but I don't want to build anymore. I've built two houses, that's enough for me. Land is very expensive here. 40% of your expenditure is going to go to a lease or a mortgage.
Just the way it is in good old Aus.
Samuel Garcia
>Land is very expensive here. there's some truth to the "fuck off we're full" meme, eh? Especially with children you will, of course, want to be reasonably close to as many potential customers, of course. Without public transport as an option, that severely limits the area you can pick from and i understand your rent calc now.
Jonathan Thomas
I forgot to add tax into the final calculation. Probably need closer to 130 students to break even.
It's not that Australia is full, every body just wants to live in the population centre, which drives up prices. I've lived in a rural area for most of my young life and it sucks. There was a Tae Kwon Do dojo just down the road paying $10 per hour to rent the hall, but the classes stopped because they couldn't get enough numbers.
Unless you are in manufacturing or farming, there is no point not setting up in the inner city.
