Are some ethnic groups in Arab lands or control considered "European" or white.
Look at this Muslim Algerian man, he has light skin, light eyes and a strong Caucasian skull. I've seen many white "Arabs" and even black "Arabs" how mixed is this region I would say the second most mixed other than Latin America were the majority over there is Mestizo.
Arab culturally
White ethnically
Zidane is not an Arab you idiot
It's that simple? Where did these white people come from?
Did I fucking say that retard?
...
A solid amount of Iranians are Aryan
Zidane is 100% Berber ethnically.
>it's another thread where retarded Americans project their internal racial nonsense onto other cultures
I'm Italian.
I have a Berber friend and he's extremely dark but he does have blondish-brown hair, what are Berbers exactly?
Side effect of women-stealing Barbary pirate shenanigans from the 19ths century and back desu
He looks much more middle eastern in this picture though.
Black hair and beard can work wonders.
A solid amount of you is stupid.
He looks like your average Med
They are north africans. They are very mixed though. Phoenicians, Vandals, Franks, etc. all came there and mixed with the Berbers.
He kinda looks Serbian/Bulgarian.
So Berbers are ethnically diverse with different amounts of blood in different individuals?
So, Bosniaks?
Race mixing probably with captives, lot of slaving in Muslim countries and white slaves were a luxury item.
French rape babies
He's Kabyle, not Arab. Kabyles are not the native Berber in Algeria, Arabs only came here during the conquests after the creation of Islam.
MENA people have always looked not very different from Meds / South Europeans.
The region isn't very mixed.
Mestizo have no black admixture you dummy, they have native American admixture. That's the mestizo identity - mix of spaniard and native in America.
Anyway, on Arabs - they are white.
Zidane however is Algerian - those are Berbers strictly speaking and aren't really arabs, other than culturally, but today this distinction isn't really made. Berbers aren't all white, but Algerians, Tunisians, even Moroccans are predominantly white.
Sub saharan DNA is negligible in North Africans and Asian DNA is non existent. For comparison white DNA in black americans is about 20%.
Remove the not in my 2nd sentence
>there are people here who dont know the difference between Arabs and Berber
These are the individuals you discuss history with.
well first of all north africans aren't arabs. Technically the only arab ethnicities/countries are saudis, yemenis and omanis. Countries like syria, lebanon, egypt, jordan etc started identifying as arabs in the 1800's for geopolitical reasons, because they speak arabic, and they were allying against the ottomans.
North Africans are megrebis and berbers, and countries outside the arabian peninsua only started speaking arabic after the islamic expansion from the arabian peninsula. A lot of syrian and lebanese people look white and are more closely related to jews then they are to arabs, at least originally. Before islam they would have looked similar to jews, italians, greeks, armenians, samaritans, druze, kurds, whiter looking turks, etc. Genetically they still closely related to these people. In these so called "arab" culture muslims claim descent / belonging to arabian tribes from the time of muhammed. But genetically those populations are still mostly native north-west semitic. Thing is though, you only need a minority of brown genes to darken a white population and change their appearance. Since white genes are more recessive.
Retards who try to be insightful and sound intelligent by claiming that jesus was an "arab" and would have looked brown as in osama bin laden brown are basically wrong. He probably would not have looked like the modern palestinians, and the brown syrians, lebanese, jordanians egytians etc. Certianly would not have looked like a saudi. He would have looked similar to your stereotypical ashkenazi and sephardi jews, ie white, but mediterranean looking, and probably dark haired.
You're overstating whiteness. The Arab conquests didn't leave enough genetic impact to affect phenotype that much. The isolated pockets of people that weren't genetically affected don't look different from the majority. They look pretty much the same aa they always have ; ranging from relatively pale to swarthy/borderline brown. Not very different from Meds. This whole "THEY WUZ WHITE N SHIEET B4 DA MUSLIMS" is a meme
Not all Iranian CITIZENS are Aryan but 100% of Iranic people are Aryan, including Tajik and Afghan people
MENA is mediterranean. And today southern europeans certainly look different to most MENA people. Other europeans and westerners especially like americans normally don't have a very good conception of what most southern europeans actually look like. For example most southern europeans don't have darker skin then other europeans. They tan in the summer, but so would any other europeans in the same climate.
Omanis got pretty heavy African mix desu
>The isolated pockets of people that weren't genetically affected don't look different from the majority.
Yes they do. They look a lot different. See samaritans, druze and alawis. I should know. I'm syrian and lebanese, not muslim, and different genetically to muslims. No european dna, and both the lebanese and syrian sides of my family look ashkenazi, sephardi, italian and even western european. And while Westerners have this idea that jews are white purely from european ancestry, its not true. Mizrahi for example, despite having gentile ancestry, are still lighter skinned then their muslim host populations. I'm not jewish myself, but I'd say sephardi jews and the stereotypically jewish looking ashkenazi are a pretty good example of what the original levant populations looked like.
And you do not need a lot of genetic imprint to change the way a white population looks. For example you inject just a bit of black genes to a european population, if its just enough, they'll no longer look as white anymore, and it would be noticeable. Because white genes are recessive.
Don't get me wrong, white semites still look semitic, because you don't need to be brown to look semitic. Just like how jews are semitic looking and aren't normally brown. Its to do with the facial features, like the nose and eyes, and shape of the face.
> I'm syrian and lebanese, not muslim
Islam is a religion, not a race or nationality
Not what he meant
I'm Lebanese and my dad is blue eyed and was blonde til his hair changed the older he got. He is always mistaken for being a white guy 100% of the time. my dads side of the family is pretty much all blue eyed or some light type of eyes and white skin. my moms side is all brown eyes and dark hair. They probably look like a Lebanese person you have seen in your life before. My parents are from different parts of the country tho. My mom's side traces back close to the Syrian border. her family has no inherited wealth. My father comes from a rich family in beirut and from old money. Alot of the white looking people tend to come from old ass rich backgrounds or are from a Christian background. I have even done one of those genetic tests if anyone wants to see what I mean.
He's berber
This. He's a Berber. They're much darker than Levantines
Yes all Persians have 3% Aryan steppe ancestry.
"Whiteness" is a fictional construct meant to give moral cover to people who did horrendous crimes to other races, and to placate the poor with a false sense of superiority. As such their is no clear definition of being "white" and the lines are drawn to whatever is politically most convenient at that present time.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Some Berbers have grey eyes and light skin/hair. It's just in their regional genes.
>Mestizo have no black admixture you dummy
There is a bit of SSA admixture in Mexicans.
I don't think most people would consider the average North African and Middle Eastern person white.
Good read
Having said that, I'm not saying all levant people were white before islam and that there weren't browner people and more eastern looking people. Just not as many as there are today. Also, it has been demonstrated that lebanese christians do have crusader genetics, but not all white features in the levant can be attributed to that.
And also, israel is more south then syria and lebanon, and closer to egypt and the arabian peninsula, so ancient jews were probably not as white as syrians and lebanese, but the origins of the ancient jews were in waves of migration from syria and anatolia.
In the past, the levant was fertile and forested, not as arid and with not as much desert, especially on the coast. Over the millenia and centuries, more and more people have come from the deserts to live on the coast in the urban areas. So browner people aren't entirely from the islamic expansion. People from the arabian peninsula also migrated in ancient times before islam, just not as many as after/with islam.
There has also been ancient gene flow between southern europe and iberia, and the levant. Some of the phonecians for example were from iberia and southern europe. The philistines as well were believed to be greeks. This gene flow probably goes much further back then that too. Personally I think this is where at least some of the italian genetics jews have come from, where as its presumed that its from converts in the roman era.
I wonder if thats because they have jewish origins....
there's a difference between political/cultural definitions of white and phenotypical / biological definitions. Also, you've swallowed this toxic idea promoted by racist old jews in academia that being "whiteness" is a bad thing and a fictional construct. What you're saying isn't entirely false, but white people still exist just as much as brown people, black people, "yellow" people etc. Targeting white people in the way your idea does is just as racist as targeting any other race in the same way
Southern french or spanish, I live in this area plenty are like this without berber origins
north africans are literally romans boi
can you wh*Teoid subhumans please stop wh*Tewashing non-wh*Tes?
You just make me want to genocide your kind.
>unironically believing this
oh im lafin
>phenotypical
Thats pretty irrelevant
Take a picture of your hand.
This PCA plots seem to differ from your anecdotal B.S.
>there's a difference between political/cultural definitions of white and phenotypical / biological definitions.
This is true, and the one set by the Swedish Institute of Racial Biology's 1918 standard (where there's not just a difference between white and anglos, fins or southerners but a distinction between "White A" and "White B" where the later is basically just pretend whites most notable for being lactose intolerant and bellow 6 feet tall) is literally the right one and if you don't agree it's because you're butthurt about being non-white.
why?
post full chart you dumbass Fersian dog
Black genocide is real, preach it bro
>tfw Lebanese/Syrian/Northern Iraqi Muslim
Do we have a cool ancient ancestors?
you sound like an Amerimutt
>cool ancient ancestors
yes you have me, i'm your father.
Exactly. I'm an Iraqi Jew, my family is from Nineveh and I am olive skinned with green eyes. I can get pretty dark in the summer but I live in Seattle and my complexion isn't that different from whites most of the time. My DNA shows up much closer with Samaritans, Lebanese Christians, Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Assyrians and Druze than it does with Arabs. I think the main reason is non-Muslims usually couldn't own slaves. This is why the Muslims have the Slavic and SSA DNA that the Christians and Jews don't have. Not to mention it being illegal to become a Christian or a Jew which lead to them being more isolated genetically.
This PCA plot seems to differ from your unsourced PCA plot.
Source: journals.plos.org
correlates with mine
>Ashkenazi Jews clustering with Sephardi Jews, Lebanese Druze, Israeli Druze & Lebanese Christians
>Palestinians clustering with Jordanians, Bedouins and Saudis
Is this why Druze support Israel and Zionism? I've always thought Ashkenazi Jews were just Italian converts but that's pretty damning.
Arabs are white you fucking moron
stop wh*Tewashing non-wh*Tes please.
>I've always thought Ashkenazi Jews were just Italian converts
The reason Ashkenazi Jewish DNA always shows up similar to that of Sicilians or Southern Italians is because they have a lot of Middle Eastern DNA. It's less them being European than it is Southern Italians being Middle Eastern. Some are even closer genetically with Levantines than they are with Europeans.
Just like mexicans?
Arabs for the most part are a giant shitshow of mixed genes. some darker, some lighter, all retarded tho.
>Is X white?
Yeah, he's Carthagenian and must be destroyed.
Berbers are darker than Arabs, by the way.
youtube.com
Aryan is a german meme and kill yourself.
>He kinda looks Serbian/Bulgarian.
So the average med.
Jewish as an ethnicity is a modern idea, and it used to hold just religious connotations.
And while there are rules about jewish mother and such, that is its hard to convert, some people may have just decided to convert anyways, without interbreeding with existing jews.
Stop using jew as a race. thats a modern zionist idea that we should stop normalizing, just like islam is becoming a race for no reason whatsoever.
>Jewish as an ethnicity is a modern idea, and it used to hold just religious connotations.
This is complete bullshit. We've recited prayers for thousands of years about the "People of Israel" or the "Hebrew Nation." The modern invention is the idea that Jews are just a religion, when we are a nation. I say this as a Middle Eastern Jew.
>some people may have just decided to convert anyways, without interbreeding with existing jews.
Now they do, but historically no. All major Jewish groups are very closely related to each other.
>thats a modern zionist idea
Again, no it's not. "Am Yisrael Chai" literally means "The people of Israel live". Just because secular European Jews like to pretend it's just a religion doesn't change the facts about it.
>Just because secular European Jews
You mean 90% of all the jews alive today?
The part that actually runs and owns shit?
When people say "jew" they don't mean communal farmers in Israel. They mean these european secular jew larpers.
>Jewish as an ethnicity is a modern idea
You can't possibly think this. Hellenized Jews in Ancient Palestine were still Jews, why didn't they turn into Greeks if it's a religion? Simply because Jews are not just a religion.
en.wikipedia.org
59 BCE
>Cicero criticizes Jews for being too influential in public assemblies. He also refers to Jews and Syrians as “races born to be slaves.”
>Hellenized Jews in Ancient Palestine were still Jews, why didn't they turn into Greeks if it's a religion?
Yeah, they were still jews, except they spoke and wrote greek, paid tax to the greeks, married and had kids with the greeks, ate like greeks, sang greek songs and danced greek dances, and basically the only jewish thing about them was the religion.
Regardless, see Most jews are european "jews".
>You mean 90% of all the jews alive today?
80%, but you can lie if you want. Over 60% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi though. Most European ones in America.
>The part that actually runs and owns shit?
There are tons of Persian Jews in Hollywood. There are a shit ton of rich Bukharan Jews. There are a lot of rich Mountain Jews in Russia. Indian Jews created Bollywood. It's not just European Jews
>When people say "jew" they don't mean communal farmers in Israel.
Then don't say Jew then.
>They mean these european secular jew larpers.
They aren't LARPers. They are just ignorant Jews. It's a fact they are closely related to us, much closer than Arabs. I hate the Ashkenazim mainly for being secular and working against Jewish interests.
>I hate the Ashkenazim mainly for being secular and working against Jewish interests.
1. Thats a spook.
2. They invented jewish interests, and Israel.
3. They are your finest, might do well to respect them.
>the only jewish thing about them was the religion.
You just proved you have no idea what you are talking about. Lots of them worshipped Greek Gods, weren't circumcised, etc. They were only Jews because ethnically and racially they were. Quite literally the only difference, everything else about them was 100% Greek. In the same way if an Arab had became Hellenized, they wouldn't magically transform into a Greek, they still descend from Ishmaelite tribes the same way Jews descend from Israelites.
Interesting question. What is being "White" was created by the U.S.
>They invented jewish interests, and Israel
Not true. My family built this country. It was our land in the first place.
>They are your finest, might do well to respect them.
They aren't our finest. Arabs will be scared the day one of us gets in power in Israel. We aren't afraid to tell the truth. All the Secular Jews have done is get us in chains to America. The leftist secular Jews were the same ones who were trying to rip Yarmulkes off of Yemenite children's heads. They are scum, and neglect the reason we are in possession of Israel in the first place.
>Indian Jews created Bollywood
No way
/thread
this
Israel without the USA would become an arab vassal within a decade.
You underestimate how much of your economy is donations driven.
You know how /pol/tards call every famous person white, and every evil guy non-white? He is doing that.
If it wasn't for the Ashkenazim then Jews really would be wiped out by Hitler, filthy arsim.
>I rate Zidane
Not true. G-d was punishing the Ashkenazim for turning their back on Him. Read Deuteronomy, this was supposed to happen. The 6 million Jewish martyrs were a sacrifice. They were fulfilling the greatest Mitzvah. The same fire which consumed the European Jews revived the Jewish soul. With fire Jerusalem was destroyed and with fire she will be rebuilt. These days, however, most American Jews are ignorant. They don't believe in the Bible. I do. G-d gave us the Torah on Mt. Sinai and chose us out of all the Nations.
>For days are coming—declares the LORD—when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah, said the LORD; and I will bring them back to the land that I gave their fathers, and they shall possess it.
>And these are the words that the LORD spoke concerning Israel and Judah:
>We have heard cries of panic, Terror without relief.
>Ask and see: Surely males do not bear young! Why then do I see every man with his hands on his loins Like a woman in labor? Why have all faces turned pale?
>How awful that day will be! None will be like it.
What's his race?
Zidane isnt an Arab. He is an Berber, more specifically a Kabyle. His people have lived in pretty geographically isolated Mountains in Algeria since the Muslim Conquest. They still speak their own language and have their own distinct culture.
Algerian. By modern definition => Africa
yeh that guy is a good example of what I meant by some of my family looking western euripean. I think a lot of people would be suprised and tripped out if they could see what ancient jews and syriacs looked like
How? white pretty much literally refers to a phenotype, it means the lightest skinned populations of the world, and they're all genetically related
Is he berber like Zidane?
>Jewish as an ethnicity is a modern idea, and it used to hold just religious connotations.
you may want to read that part in genesis where god promises to bless all of abraham's descendants and make them into a nation
kabyles are from where the visigoths settled, and also have the highest frequencies of blondism and blue eyes, seems like too much of a coincidence.
Yes he is.
Abraham might want to get a paternity test on some of the people calling themselves jews today.
Absolutely
White.
>white genes are recessive
No lol. No such thing as 'white genes' aside from skin color and you have no idea about genetics.
Skin color genes aren't recessive. Skin color is codominant. Meaning pink+brown = olive or gray skin. Both alleles will affect how your skin color turns out and that's part of the reason why there's so many different skin tones.
Populations you are talking about are so close to the original natives that a small change in frequency of gene x wouldn't have affected how they look.
Not that it matters much, because even saudis are white. Just look at it from the perspective of an African or an Asian, or from an objective perspective at least.
15%, the highest of any middle eastern country
Lower than black american white mix.
White doesn't refer to phenotype. White refers to genes. Muh phenotype is not relevant as it is determined by an insignificant amount of your genes.
Skin color -1, eye color -1, hair color-1 (rough approximations, there's other genes that are far less involved, but those are the main ones)
Out of 25000 protein coding genes.
Makes you understand how little muh phenotype means.
I am only calling it muh phenotype, because you just know it's just a bunch of tards with 0 education about genetics that learnt a cool word and repeat it - muh phenotype.
>white genes are recessive
Read my post again.
And by the way, you do need a lot of genetic imprint. You ever seen quadroons? Octaroons?
First are 25% african, second are 12.5% African. Already at 25% you can clearly see what race they are predominantly and at 12.5% it's most of the time impossible to determine - these are people that walk among us, you can google and see for yourself.
And on top of that the mixing in the middle east went on in fewer numbers and between groups that were already close to eachother - the only conclusion is, that people have always looked like that. And indeed they have.
Race and ethnicity are literally memes which should have died long ago.
Jews have certain genetic diseases or something though, that non-jews arent as likely to have