Why was France so upset about losing Alsace-Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian War? I understand revanche played a major role in politics up to WW1.
This wasn't the first time France had lost territory after a war, so why was this particular area so important to them?
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1) It had important coal and manufacturing capacity
2) France really, really, really underestimated Germany. It's difficult to describe just how little the French thought of the German military. That just added to the butthurt.
Because in the 16th and 17th centuries, gaining and losing land was just something you did. But in the 19th century, with the autistic ideology of nationalism, every inch of ground became holy clay.
What's funny is that French whining about the treaty of "Francfort" after 1871 was almost the same as the German bitching about Versailles. As if
>treaty was sooo "unfair" because it actually had negative consequences for us
>muh ancient lands that were French/German since 10000000BC
>how dare this subhumans treat us like a defeated nation
France and Germany/Prussia trashed countless countries and now they were complaining about logical consequences of a defeat.
>This wasn't the first time France had lost territory after a war
It kind of was tho
From its beginning up to the 19th century, France had mostly expanded
I knew Paris was occupied but I had no idea that such a large chunk of France was also under occupation. I would say that seems extreme for such a short war, but the French were defeated rather swiftly.
I kind of want to read more about the subject, are there any good books about France from that period?
I read George Kennan's the Fateful Alliance but that's more 1880s. I'm reading a different book currently about Germany 1866-1945 but it kind of glosses over this war (from what I understand Bismark used it to consolidate Prussian power and reign in the southern states). Of course it doesn't cover French perspective
They gained a lot of territory after the Revolutionary wars but lost a lot of it after Napoleon was defeated. French revanche was talked about after 1870, but would they not, logically speaking, be more upset after 1815?
They occupied a large part of Northern France and reached as far as Orléans and Le Mans.
It's a same you can't find many detailed maps about this like you can for every month of WWI. See pic related.
About more relevant books can't think of any at the moment.
After the Peninsular War, most everyone knew that Napoleon would ultimately fail, whereas the defeat in 1870 was a shocker.
That was meant for
France really is an expansive nation, and they change the ethnicity of the territories they occupy. Like 50 years ago Alsace spoke 95% a German dialect, today only 30-340 do that. Massive settlement of immigrant workers from north africa helped with that.
The hundred days is what lost France actual territory after his defeat. The terms before it left France all its actual French territory. It did piss the French off, but they couldn't really do anything about it. Most of the French Empire were just client states. Losing them wasn't losing actual French territory.
It is also what gave us the abomination known as Belgium.
Yeah but the territories conquered under Napoleon werent seen as real parts of France
France was given back its pre-war borders in 1815, so no real French territory was annexed
Meanwhile in 1871, Alsace (that had been French since the 1600s) was annexed
t. Nigel Hufflepuff
>they change the ethnicity of the territories they occupy. Like 50 years ago Alsace spoke 95% a German dialect, today only 30-340 do that.
They change the culture, ethnicity is a fixed thing. Learn an alsatian french and his culture will be french. Only if you let him be born from french parents will his ethnicity be french.
>ethnicity is a fixed thing
Not when you bring in a sizable population of north africans.
dat blob
Do you even have a source for that ?
>le eu4 french blob achievement
Because fuck the g*rmans XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
lalsace.fr
desdomesetdesminarets.fr
like 10%+ muslims, one of the biggest percentages in all France. Cities like Mülhausen (in French Mulhouse) have 25% muslim and is essentially fucked.
now thats quite a shift in ethnicity.
That makes more sense. Honestly it makes me kind of sad. I was loving those borders pre-1814
Strassbourg is full of Turks who only speak French and Turkish as well. France has tried everything to let disappear the Alsatian language/culture
>revanche played a major role in politics up to WW1.
Actually, it didn't.
By 1914, revanchism was pretty much dead in French politics. The parties with a revanchist platform were fringe elements without any power. The key leadership positions were held by people who either didn't care, or actively worked against revanchism or towards a more cordial relationship with Germany previously. The hawkish elements of the military were held in check by the politicians, in fact, even rather hindered by them. The anti-war socialists were firmly in power.
Perhaps not on the forefront but during the creation of the Franco-Russian alliance, it was clearly stated on multiple occasions that France's intended goal, in the case of war with Germany, to take back Alsace-Lorraine.
Though, admittedly, this was in the 1880s and 90s
>Massive settlement of immigrant workers from north africa helped with that.
And yet Germans are still somehow pro-Muslim...
Yeah, noticed that, country side or elder people, no problem with my Alemannic dialect, but in the City you need your French because there is so many non Alsacians. Also, albeit a majority of people is German speaking, all sings everywhere are French only, all school is French only, and all administration is French only. Like full pressure on the minority to assimilate.
Jesus, the mental hoops people go through to feel butthurt about Muslims.
You have to assume:
1. That Germans nowadays care about Alsace-Lorraine. Which they don't.
2. That Muslims as a whole would have to be blamed...
a) rather than the French government that orchestrated the settlement.
b) rather than the French as a whole.
c) rather than French of African descent.
d) rather than the originating African ethnicities.
3. That some migration 100 years ago is sufficient reason to determine your stance on a population as a whole now, which is extra absurd in the case of the Franco-German relationship, since by that standard they'd have to be hereditary enemies wanting to slice each other open right now.
Same thing happened in Bruxelles
>Aburkadurkadurka AALLALALHU ACKBAR I WILL DESTROY YOU IN THE NAME OF THE JIHAD
Provided a tl;dr for your shit.
>Also, albeit a majority of people is German speaking
My sides. There's even less Alsatians speaking Alsatian than Corsicans speaking Corsican, which are a folkloric minority. Same in Britany who are yet hardcore regionalists. It always was like that since centuries, people (including me) know basic stuff from the region where they grew up, but only a few autistic fanatics master the "language" and use it. You'll pass as a total weirdo if you try to engage a conversation in the local patois, especially if you're a foreigner.
I think Brussels could still be recued once, because the Dutch part of Belgium has far more influence than the French elite. The problem of Alsace however is that it's an unique culture which dead is supported by the French government and no politician does effort to rescue it,
>There's even less Alsatians speaking Alsatian
Its 30-40% now, it used to be 95%. 50 years ago.
Enjoy behacing like a chauvinistic asshole.
Blows my mind that people boast that Germany defeated France in 46 days but forget France defeated Prussia in 19.
I'm not chauviniste, I strongly support local cutlures and I'm glad to pay taxes for double panels and shit, but you're a sweet fool if you think 30% people speak Alsatian nowadays (by "speak" I mean fluently and on a daily basis) . You also forget that 100% people in these regions speak French since generations.
>You also forget that 100% people in these regions speak French since generations.
Thats bullshit and you know it, French was a commonly spoken second language, half the people knew it, almost none spoke it at home.
When the English took Quebec, they kept it French even inside Canada. The Swiss have like 4 languages for everyone of their ethnics and even the Austrians use dual language in Carinthia with their Slowenian minority.
The only ones in all Europe actively trying to root out a native language and replace it with their own is France.
You know that when Germany annexed Alsace they also tried to eradicate the Alsatian language, which was seen as a bastardised German, right?
>Thats bullshit and you know it, French was a commonly spoken second language,
wtf, French is the language spoken in schools (you know, the thing where kids spend their life) since centuries. Local languages are secondary since 18/19th century at least. German has been forced in Alsace only between 1871/1918 and 1940/1945.
Not him, but Alsatian German is closer to standard German than most other German dialects actually. Both are high German. Alsatians were in a better situation than Low Germans.
Should've been like this
i hate how sorbian is always overpresented
Literally only 20.000 people speak it
Yet the Germans have dual street signs and own school books for them. France just tries to assimilate Alsatians like autistic Borg's
Again, French was not used by Alsacians for private conversations or anything, their mother language was a German dialect and like 50 years ago 90% of the people spoke their German dialect. This is now down to 40% because France is like the only state in Europe that actively tries to eradicate a language and change a culture. Same with Breton and Occitan.
>muh but they are only small minorities speaking it
>yes, thats because you destroyed their languages in the first place
France = merde
Ok, you're clearly not French. Here there always was what you speak at home and what you speak in public. Local language were reduced to a very private sphere since ages. It doesn't mean the local languages were destroyed, I don't think many European countries spend that much effort to preserve them. French was enforced to ensure anyone had equal chances to reach public studies and careers, which is a fucking obvious basics for any decent country.
And no, there was never 95% people speaking "Alsatian", the language never was codified before late 20th century (thanks to the state efforts) and it varied from valley to valley. Same for Breton, Ch'ti etc. And lol no there's not 40% people speaking it nowadays. However, they all speak French since Ancien Régime.
Deutschland = scheiBe
>I don't think many European countries spend that much effort to preserve them.
Thats where you are wrong, France does absolutely nothing to preserve the languages, otherwise it would have dual schooling, sign and other things, like most European countries do. Instead it actively marginalizes those native languages and watches as they slowly die out.
>Since 1992, the constitution of the Fifth Republic states that French is the official language of the Republic. However, Alsatian, along with other regional languages, is recognized by the French government in the official list of languages of France. France is a signatory to the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages but has never ratified the law and has not given regional languages the support that would be required by the charter. The policies of the Paris government have had the deliberate effect of greatly weakening the prevalence of native languages in France that are not "French." As a result, the Alsatian dialect of German has gone from being the prevalent language of the region to one in decline. A 1999 INSEE survey counted 548,000 adult speakers of Alsatian in France, making it the second most-spoken regional language in the country (after Occitan). Like all regional languages in France, however, the transmission of Alsatian is on the decline. While 43% of the adult population of Alsace speaks Alsatian, its use has been largely declining amongst the youngest generations"
Have fun ignoring reality and telling yourself how France is always the good guy and dindunofin
shoo shoo g*rm. Veeky Forums is a french board
never will we ever give anything up to you ugly mustachemen ever again
1) Have you ever had your lady desecrated by another man and couldn't do anything about it?
2) Have you ever had the iron & coal in your backyard extracted by your neighbor and you couldn't do anything about it?
If yes, then you already know the answer. If no, ask yourself how your would feel about these things?
perhaps i didn't make myself clear, hans
your kind are not welcome here
Veeky Forums is an anti-g*rm board
fuck off dirty baguettefresser
you best hit the road, hans, or we'll meme you out
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>otherwise it would have dual schooling, sign and other things
lol
trema.revues.org
>Corsican language in education through the last thirty years has largly improved. Despite a decline of its social use its presence in education benefits from a very voluntary politics of the State, the region and the University. 2000s underline a very clear direction towards the school bilingualism thus putting the stake in the choice of a multilingual society.
Just the first link among dozens.
France spend millions for regional languages, you're stuck in an outdated propaganda.
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>Just the first link among dozens.
Yes, find one about Alsace then.
International organizations for minority rights all agree that France is deliberately destroying languages and does not protect them according to agreed standards.
>Corsican language
Wrong thing chap, we are talking about Alsatian.
I like this. Bavarian beer is GOAT though.
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Alsatian died decades ago
Still the point is that the regional languages that survived to nowdays (like Breton and Corsican) are now actively preserved by the French government
>Alsatian died decades ago
over half a million people still speak it, please try to follow the thread and stop spreading false information.
the only way Brussel can be saved is with a genocide
>Yes, find one about Alsace then.
You're fucking lazy
medialzas.wordpress.com
>L’Alsacien : la langue régionale la plus enseignée de France
>You're fucking lazy
You are to provide sources for your arguments, thats how it works you dumb cunt! Also those source should preferably be in English, like this one:
aljazeera.com
Minorities complain how the French state kills their languages and ask for UNESCO protection.
>Also those source should preferably be in English
>what is a simple copy/paste in ggl translation
ALSATIAN IS THE MOST TAUGHT REGIONAL LANGUAGE IN FRANCE
Minorities always complain dummy, that's their "raison d'ëtre".
Sorry but I btfo'd all your claims, you don't know anything about this topic in France, which is a serious one here, anything is done to preserve regional languages and I'm pretty sure we're kinda leaders in this range. I provided enough evidences, now please name other examples in Europe that take care of their regionalisms, Poland , Italy, Germany etc.
>I provided enough evidences,
>1 shit article in french
>excuse me now
As I said
>you're fucking lazy
I provided 2 articles and one picture (2 now), explicit enough to prove your claim is wrong. there's dual signs and state sponsored schools for every region who asks.
It's common knowledge that regional languages in France are actively supported, contrary to other European countries. what you provided is anglo tier bias and a Aljazeera link, motherfuckinglol.
>www.google,fr
>go search for yourself why everything I say is the absolute truth
Are you just stupid? you claim something, you provide the sources, and private sources in french only about corsica is not really relevant.
>I don't like your official sources
Get an education.
Taking the county of Burgundy would leave the future Reich with a very indefensible bulge into France that can be surrounded on three sides by French troops.
Bismarck took what he did not because he couldn't take more, but because he was thinking of the future.
.