Lombard Italy

Some Bulgars settled in the south in the 7th century and got assimilated later on.

Italian is the Tuscan dialect though.

youtube.com/watch?v=ldi8iFBQBnA&list=PLzdQDwj6UWk616DopC-Vp45Q10syyGuqY

>French is the Celtic butchery of Latin
>Italian is the Germanic butchery of Latin
>Spanish is the _____ butchery of Latin

Safe for entire eastern rome a.k.a the Byzantine empire, which turned equally dark ages. Face it, it was the christcucks that killed literacy.

Phoneposters on Veeky Forums: know them all.

>runs out of arguments
>commences ad hominem
nice try christcuck.

>Italian is the Germanic butchery of Latin
Not really. Italian is based on the Vulgar Latin that was spoken in Tuscany even before the Western Roman Empire fell. There's very little Germanic influence on the Italian language, and even less genetic influence, as the Lombards and other Germans who conquered Italy made their way there slowly and intermingled with a lot of people on the way.

Arabic

This, French language likely has got way more German influence from the Franks.

if you think the ostrogoths, lombards, franks, normans, and so on who settled in italy en masse over a long period didn't have a significant influence on the pronunciation of medieval latin in italy, you're delusional

Exactly. French has a lot of vowel sounds for a Romance language, and pretty much all Germanic languages have a large array of vowels.
Could you present some evidence of these effects? Also, the Norman invasion is totally irrelevant to modern standard Italian, because the Normans never controlled Tuscany, the birthplace of standard Italian. Just because someone invades one part of the region doesn't mean that linguistic innovations spread throughout the whole country.

Well, at least science tells us that French has been modified by germanic languages much more than Italian has, including the syntax which in French is rather different from Latin.

>What happens here?
The Lombards were a rather primitive tribe of Germanics who had the fortune of good timing: they decided to migrate right at the precise moment when the Ostrogoths and Byzantines had fought each other to the point of exhaustion, and while the Byzantines were successful in ruining the good thing that the Ostrogoths had going, their empire had been completely crippled by a major pestilence, the Justinian Plague, which left Justinian with a fraction of his taxbase and labor pool of skilled tradesmen and potential military recruits right as he was on the verge of consolidating his victory.

Had it not been for the Justinian Plague, he likely would have gone on to reform the Roman empire. In a way though, it's a good thing that he was unable, because all that happened was that the ancient despotism had failed, and the states which arose in their place were superior in every way.

And it was a shame, too, the Ostrogoths were a cosmopolitan tribe who had dedicated themselves to preserving the old ways, who had eliminated so much of the bureaucracy and the regulatory apparatus that had come to dominate life in the late Empire that Italy actually experienced something of a mini-golden age of economic recovery as people no longer found themselves burdened under the yoke of an excessively bloated, inept, and corrupt government.

>Face it, it was the christcucks that killed literacy.
Actually, the Christian religion was the only thing which preserved literacy through the dark ages. Literally the only people writing things down were Christian monks. And the chain of events which lead to the final collapse of the Roman Empire starts well before the Christian era.

How long did it take for Lombards to Italianize?
Actually was there even such a thing yet?

>Literally the only people writing things down were Christian monks.
Yes, because the made sure no one else could write.
Just look at the drop in literacy and science from the Roman empire to Christian Byzantine empire, like Christcucks monopolized education and science and soon and with no eternal pressure literacy drops to medieval tier.

>How long did it take for Lombards to Italianize?
1400+ years and they are still not done yet.

didn't Ostrogoths build caste society where they were superior to Romans?

All Germanic did that, check old laws like the Salic law, you'll see that a "Roman" is only worth half as much as a free Germanic.
Inf act, most of the aristocratic class in Europe was based on germanic nobles ruling over their Gaul or Italian subjects.

wtf i hate germanics now

>science
science is a 19th century concept. This is totally unsubstantiable

>Christcucks monopolized education
Before Christians, only government bureaucrats and aristocrats bothered learning how to read. Whenever these sort of societies fell the government bureaucrats were out of a job, and the aristocrats were stripped of their titles, and over time the knowledge gets lost as there is no reason for their services to persevere. That's why literacy collapsed utterly during the bronze age collapse.

Christians were the first group of people to make extensive use of books and codexes. Scrolls were notoriously impractical, while books allowed for information to be stored in a much more compact and efficient manner. Pagan temples were oral traditions which jealously hoarded information, and that's why when economic decline took place and these Pagan temples were abandoned, their secrets were lost forever. For Christians whose deep heartfelt need was to preserve the Bible, they were the only one still bothering to write anything down as illiterate Germanic ruling classes displaced Latin writing ones.

It's not like the Romans were any better. People were dicks to each other in the iron age.

Also, the first government figure to mandate education for the masses was Charlemagne. Never before in history had any ruler sought to educate the common rabble. Even at Rome's height there was only a single college town, Athens, and only the richest members of society could afford to go there. And it was a totally unrigorous society of bickering ideologues.

The first truly rigorous centers of education were the Catholic medieval universities. For the first time in history, a doctor or engineer could get his degree in France, and travel any where else in Europe and have his trade license recognized by the same church which gave it to him.

>Before Christians, only government bureaucrats and aristocrats bothered learning how to read.
Stopped reading there, because literacy was a virtue in the Roman society and literacy rates where way higher than during the entire Christian medieval.
A common roman insult was "He can neither read nor swim".

It is a natural outgrowth of societies with large metropolitan areas. As the upper classes read and write, an urban intelligentsia grows around them.

When the metropolitan areas disappear, so do the rates of literacy. Religion has nothing to do with it, their disappearance can be entirely explained by political and economic factors.

>Christians were the first group of people to make extensive use of books and codexes. Scrolls were notoriously impractical,
Science and philosophy was written on scrolls.
The only book Christians got for several hundred years was the same old bronze age tales.
Content is more important than form and scientific output dropped dramatically as a result of everybody being preoccupied with some end of days cult.

>Science and philosophy was written on scrolls.
until they were written on books, and people never looked back. Books were a remarkable invention which changed the face of European culture.

And for the last time, what they practiced was not called "science", humans do not start practicing "science" until Galileo. They called it "natural philosophy", a far cruder, less efficient method for the acquisition of knowledge. There was no system of rigor, no peer review, no scientific method. These things all develop over the course of centuries in the Middle East and later in the Catholic Universities and had no ancient analogue. Tradesmen didn't get their license at a school, they got their license by making a sacrifice at the temple of the appropriate god, which again, was an oral tradition which dies when one generation is unable to pass on their knowledge to the next.

Everywhere Christians came into contact with pagans, the pagans were gone within a generation. It's not that the Christians were doing anything dastardly, it's that they got women and children to come to their churches in greater numbers than any homicide-venerating gang of pagans could muster, so they simply outgrew them.

>until they were written on books,
Problem was no one was writing scientific or philosophical books for a long long time.
Everybody was just writing skydaddy this and skydaddy that.
Doesn't help to have books when nobody writes anything anymore except christian fanfiction.

>Problem was no one was writing scientific or philosophical books for a long long time.
The problem was that there weren't large metropolitan areas which could support such specialized labor for a long long time. There are myriad factors which explain this, and these sorts of ebbs and flows between periods of centralization and powerful cities and periods of decentralization and powerful rural landowners happens even in societies which never experienced Christianity in its history, like ancient China.

Yes totally nothing to do with a religion that monopolizes scripture and actively suppresses knowledge if it is not in line with their dogmas.

>a religion that monopolizes scripture and actively suppresses knowledge if it is not in line with their dogmas.
Pagans literally fed people they disagreed with to lions as a form of public entertainment.

Nobody is perfect, but then they knew a lot more about mechanics, geometry and medicine because they where not anti scientific and not dogmatic. IF the price for this is feeding some cool aid drinkers to the lions then so be it

>Nobody is perfect
my point, exactly. People are products of their environment. The Greeks and Romans made many important contributions to human society. They also ripped their society to pieces quite easily on their own while Christians were still a tiny minority being ruthlessly persecuted by the state.

Besides, we know for a fact that Caesar Augustus ruthlessly controlled the flow of information throughout the city, as did all subsequent emperors. The term "emperor" is a modern term for the guy who was not just the richest man in the world, but also the one who had monopolized all of the political power, but who was also the high priest of the state religion.

> they knew a lot more about mechanics, geometry and medicine because they where not anti scientific and not dogmatic.
No, they were pragmatic. They cared about practical sciences and never openly engaged in "blue sky" research. And most of this practical research was carried out by the military, whose government was only kept afloat by continuous conquest and infusions of foreign capital. Once they ran out of people worth conquering, they had no one left to use all that military stuff on but each other (or more specifically, their creditors)

> feeding some cool aid drinkers to the lions
At the height of its depravity Romans were just rounding up people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time in order to feed them to the grinder of public spectacle. Entire ecosystems were rounded up and butchered to extinction. Commodus once built a giant human shaped statue made out of all the legless cripples in the city just so that he could club them to death one by one and proclaim himself a giant-slayer.

>
At the height of its depravity Romans were just rounding up people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time in order to feed them to the grinder of public spectacle. Entire ecosystems were rounded up and butchered to extinction. Commodus once built a giant human shaped statue made out of all the legless cripples in the city just so that he could club them to death one by one and proclaim himself a giant-slayer.

No matter how you put it, Christian Rome never reached the levels of scholarship the pagans did. When you are not interested in the world, not much research happens.

To be fair, the Franks treated the existing Gallo-Roman elites far better than the Lombards. In Italy, the Roman upper class was basically wiped out by the Lombards or at least lost their property; for some time, the Germanic invaders and the natives were socially hermetically separated;

in Gaul, the relationship between the Romani and the Franks was far better, many Romani served the king and had high positions. In Souther and South-Western Gaul, the old senatoric aristocracy and Roman law were almost untouched. Overall, it was far more symbiotic, Romani and Germani influenced each other, as evidenced by the strong Germanic influence in the langue d'oil.

>Christian Rome never reached the levels of scholarship the pagans did.
That was because Rome was already well into its decline by the time it Christianized. And the western societies which replaced the Romans vastly surpassed anything that the Romans ever accomplished. The Romans brought the decline of scholarship onto themselves, and the only thing that kept their literary tradition from being permanently lost were Christian monks.

There was only a single institution of higher learning in the entire empire: The Academy at Athens. There used to be a school that Aristotle founded, called the Lyceum, but that was burned down by Sulla in 86 BC. In its Roman form they only sought to preserve and commentate on Aristotle, not conduct true research. Neither were the Neoplatonists at the Academy conducting any research, they were teaching pagan philosophies which is why Justinian shut it down. By the late middle ages Universities were flourishing all over Europe, and these were conducting actual research.

>The Romans brought the decline of scholarship onto themselves,
Yes, by accepting Christianity as their Religion. Everything went downhill afterwards.

>Yes, by accepting Christianity as their Religion. Everything went downhill afterwards.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century
Why don't you take a few minutes to acquaint yourself with this important piece of Roman history, which took place before Christians constituted any more than 5 to 10% of the population.

Belisarius should've stopped after Sicily.

>people still believe this meme

fucking murrikan i swear

Basque. Castillian (spanish) comes from basque lands.