General cool pre-columbian info. It's incredibly interesting to me how much pre-columbian American civilizations were developing completely independently along the lines of Mesopotamian and Indus civilization. Not saying they were superior to anyone or any dumb arbitrary judgement like that but it's a shame the Spanish crushed them all, would've been an interesting alternative world culture otherwise.
Post folk stories, history, pics, questions etc. I'll dump a few pics from Google to start
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How did the mayas started?
Is there history on the maya writings?
>For a long time they have had in this great city (Tenochtitlan) many grand mosques or temples in which they housed their idols and offered sacrifice to them, but the chief mosque was a most wonderful thing to see, since it was as great as a city. It was surrounded by a high wall of masonry, and had four principal entrances, over each of which was a fortified structure, filled with all kinds of the arms which they used in their wars. The Lord of the great temple was Montezuma himself, and he had within the walls two thousand men, all selected for their valor, and they guarded his person and accompanied him. When there was any outbreak or rebellion in the city or the environs, they sallied forth, or at least a part of them, and if more people were necessary then the rest joined them, either in the city or its boundary. Before leaving they went to the armories and armed themselves. Shortly after they offered sacrifice to the chief idol, and having been blessed departed for the war. Within the circuit of the great temple there were many habitations of different kinds, and in some a thousand persons could be lodged without annoyance. Within the enclosure more than twenty towers were located, all more or less similar to what has been described, although among the rest, there was one greater, longer, broader, and higher, because it was the lodging of the chief idol, for whom all had the greatest devotion. The deities were in the upper part of the tower [teocalli], and they looked upon them with great devotion. In the lower part were the lodgings and rooms of the priests who served in the temple, but the sacrificers were stationed elsewhere. In the mosques of other cities they sing during the night as if they were chanting matins, and they do this also at many hours of the day, divided into two choirs, one on each side, and continue according to a ritual, one side intoning hymns, and the other responding as if they were singing vespers.
-Anonymous Conqueror
Very cool. I'd love to see a high quality HBO series about the contact and conflict and campaigns between the Aztec and Spanish
>*coughs in European
>maya writings
They believed writing was invented by the gods. There's an ongoing debate over how much of the Mayan population was actually literate; if it was restricted to specialists like scribes or if the more common "business class" was included. Having a literate civilization in the 5th century would be quite significant.
3 years ago tho?
did you know that the stars and the moon are the children of mother earth and every day they try to kill their mother and as such mother earth birthed the sun (armed and full growned) to defend her
this is why we have a day-night cycle, and if the sun ever stops persecuting the stars and the moon then everything will be lost, thats why we have to
give power to the sun with blood
blood for the blood god, grub
Yeah I haven't heard anything since then, which is really shitty. Benicio del Toro would have been fucking perfect as Cortes. It's probably not gonna work out, but I hope it does.
I'm surprised the Incatard hasn't started shitting up this thread yet
>great civilizations
>conquered by like 50 Spaniards and some horses and dogs
Europeans are Gods.
bump
The conquest was nothing like you think it is, and it never resulted as it's claimed.
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see it attracts shitposters from every corner
Afaik there's little known about the Toltecs but they were a tribe from the area of the Aztecs and conqered areas as far as Yucatan a few hundred years prior to the Aztecs.
Apparently Aztecs considered them their predecessors and admired them.
Same with the moche culture in Peru, but there's a bunch of independent cultures that arised before the age of the great empires.
You mean conquered by multiple diseases killing them for centuries.
read a bit about that, too, when I was younger, I used to go to the library often and read all books about Mesoamericans / Peruvian natives.
also: seriously, what is the explanation for these things (pic related), are they visible from a nearby mointain or something? What were they created for?
The only current explanation it's because they could, it has no practical use, Nazca culture was really big on art, they made a lot of stuff that's comparable to modern art for the sake of art artifacts.
that looks awesome
South american ceramics are amazing.
>50 Spaniards and uhhhh a hundred thousand native warriors lol but we wuz burdened white men n shieeeet
Actually europeans didn't even manage to combat the Inca troops when they took reinforcements later. The neo Inca state was destroyed mainly due to diseases constantly fucking the population up.
Was talking about the Aztecs, Pizarro also came in the middle of a huge war of secession if I remember right
There were two mainly events that were based on luck:
1st. The diseases arrived just when the Inca (king) was conquering the northern of South America and diving the conquests of the empire by two parts, giving those two to each heir prince and Atahualpa. The diseases killed him when the plans got interrupted, leading the situation to a sucesion war.
2nd. When Pizarro came, he met the winner of the civil war, when his army was decimated. Then he proceeded to poison the wine they were drinking and killed the unarmed people, before kidnapping the Inca (winner of the sucesion war)
But the Inca nobles reorganized and a new Inca was chosen, basically they formed the Neo Inca state and learnt from the spanish iron and gunpowder just 5 years after the spanish came. The diseases have been fucking up the native population for centuries though.
I was reading about writing in mesoamerica and learned that their terms for writing and painting were the same. Most of the content in the codices have to do with genealogies and origin stories but some codices and some vases show references to schools and teachers teaching students. I'm wondering: How did they build pyramids, create calendars, tools, and other things if their written languages were not able to convey information? I know written Mayan is an exception but as far as I'm aware there are no written examples of Mayan math or mayan science.
At what point did they come under and stay under Spanish or at least Spanish-Peruvian rule?
Maya codices contain calendars and astronomical tables. As for pyramid building, it's similar to Egyptian pyramids or Angkor Wat in that most of the work didn't require any writing.
>1572
>Within two weeks after the declaration of war a small party of Spanish soldiers had captured a key bridge on the border of the Neo-Inca State, from which Toledo assembled his army. On June 1, the first engagement of the war commenced in the Vilcabamba valley. The Inca people attacked first with much spirit despite being only lightly armed. Again and again, they attempted to lift the siege held by the Spanish and their native allies but each time they were forced to retreat. On June 23 the fort of Huayna Pucará surrendered to Spanish artillery fire. The Inca army now in retreat opted to abandon their last city and head for the jungle to regroup. On June 24 the Spanish entered Vilcabamba to find it deserted and the Sapa Inca gone. The city had been entirely destroyed, and the Neo-Inca State officially ceased to exist. Túpac Amaru was later captured and executed by the Spanish.
Those are simply dates when astronomical events happen. I'm talking about things like this:
independent.co.uk
Where are the written examples that show how they calculated things?
The Maya solar year was calculated to greater accuracy than the Julian year. The Maya measured the 584-day Venus cycle with an error of just two hours.
Don't mess with the Mapuche
What's the name of the calendar? And does it show how it was calculated or simply show the dates and special events?
So what's left on Inca civilization anyways? I know the language and people are still there in the Andes, and the spanish speaking major cities like Lima Peru are complete shitholes.
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All poverty places are shitholes by definition, but it depends which places are dangerous. The southern people even managed to kick out the sicarios from colombia by themselves, they can't get tricked, their culture is pretty harsh and communal. Yet the mongrels are the ones who commit much more crimes.
Inca civilization left the low class culture not that much intact but it can be seen the past influences on them ( textil, camelid farms, organized communities between families on some zones).
I don't know which kind of answer you wanted.
Any good documentaries/books related to the subject ?
Nothing, native peruvian descendants are ashamed of their heritage and the media whitewashed the fuck out of the country. Just nuke us already.
Wikipedia is telling me that there are over 13,000,000 indigenous people in Peru, 45% of the population, not including Mestizo Peruvians. It looks to me that Peru is a very Indian country, kinda of a large demographic for everybody to be ashamed... for long.
:'(
I'm OP, I got so interested in Andean civilization i went to Peru and spent a lot of time in Huaraz and Ancash in general. Thought it was beautiful country and the Quecha i met were very friendly and interesting people.
Not that my being a burgeoning incaboo helps your country reclaim it's culture and history but still from an outside perspective it did seem like there was a lot of culture still hanging on despite the urbanization driving everyone out
Strictly less impressive than the Mississippians desu.
the media/government/system of globalism can't take away your culture and language. If it's dying, it's YOUR fault.
> source: someone who lives in a city where the majority population is a rare ethnic group with it's own tongue
Just keep pushing the Inca superiority argument, and see how the increment of imminent education quality from the next 10 years will manage to use that argument with creativity.
Cry me a river fag
>tfw no spanish bf to fill my brown pussi
Your people need an Inca nazism
That image is so silly.
I was the one that asked us to be nuked or something. Heres this thing i saw a couple of years ago.
>A PUNISHED LAST NAME
Julio is the first to speak and says: "I was very affected by the discrimination for calling me Chihuantito Atayupanqui, when everyone in the school was called Merino, Hermoza or Caballero. There was always such discrimination to Quechua names. "
When he speaks he stares at the ground, and goes on. "They beat us, they treated us badly. I felt inferior. There was always mockery. We have felt in our flesh this separation. But it has changed in recent years. "
Next, Edwin, the younger son, adds: "In high school it was worse. I felt insecure. They educated us with a false story, and they only talked about the Spanish part. " Edwin is dedicated to business and is a son who stays close to his mother. "At that time I had a sense of guilt. I often thought, 'Mother, why did not you call Flores instead of Atayupanqui?' "
Just that you know, ''Flores'' and all the spanish surnames mentioned are common, meaningless, whatever you wanna call them. The surname this kids have are of the Inca line, they have the blood of the Inca emperors and they are getting mocked because of that. Peru is the only fuckign shithole where you can be bullied for that. As I said, this country is fucking dead.
its in spanish.
Fucked up with the quoting, but this threads kinda dead anyways.
Yeah you fucked up the quoting. Do it again, or I'll do it tomorrow if this thread isn't dead yet.
As I said . Is a great argument for a basis of pride.
Silly?
Peruvians are the most powerful race.
The world will shake when Peru awakens.
Is language revitalization gaining ground?
REEEEE why did colonialism have to destroy the bounty of human culture
theres like 4 million people Quechua speakers, but its slowly dying. Maybe it will recover, but people need to feel proud of their culture again. The Quechua speakers are discriminated in most cities and the language is not teached in most of schools.
They treat others as inferiors to make themselves feel superior. In a country filled with Incans, you need to resist and organize and educate yourselves.
A lot of people from villages and natives just study and come to the city. Still they are discriminated against and they aren't getting hired by several companies. Still the education in Peru is one of the worst of the world. Natives from villages have to work and keep their farms. Their children hardly get any education due to the seasonal work the children have to learn and practice. I really hope the education arrives there, and the schools get better teachers thanks to the competitivity ideas some people are pushing.
shit like that would make me antifa.
Man, Canada got rid of that shit years ago. You have to take back your nation with love and compassion. There's dozens of Spanish nations, but only one you.
>It's incredibly interesting to me how much pre-columbian American civilizations were developing completely independently along the lines of Mesopotamian and Indus civilization.
Well they independently came to a bronze age style economy, so one would expect some similarities, but I agree, it is cool.
>that qt on the bottom left.
Fuck she reminds me of my high school crush.
Diseases came from the animals brought over not people typically.
Inca pussy is superior
It's impossible to know the vast majority of their books are gone. From the popol vuh we know histories were also written. Perhaps mundane ones like tribute lists and tallies. Women scribes probably wrote about pregnancy and health. There's clues in the vases what some of the codices that were destroyed may have contained.
What are the chances we'll find a nicely sealed tomb with a shitload of maya codices in our lifetimes?
We have already found tombs from over 1000 years ago with books. But they either disintegrated or whatever remains is completely stuck together (the pages). The climate has been a bitch to these books over time.
Which?
bump
Fuck, that hurts, especially being Mexican. I was always hoping we'd find something. Maybe in a tomb with dryer air, or something.
>master race
>not taking a picture of them in low-angle shot