Context Denial and Hitler in WW2

Why do people act as if Operation Barbarossa wasn't in reaction to the massive threat of the Soviet state invading Western Europe? Obviously it didn't go well, but the clear threat of the Soviet colossus makes his actions understandable, no? I'm not asking anyone on this board to love Hitler, but why do people pretend that the Soviets weren't an incredibly dangerous threat to Western Europe?

>i punched this guy because he looked like he can start throwing punches any minute now

the USSR wanted Moldova, maybe the balkans and maybe parts of Poland, but invading western Europe? thats just stromfag fantasy, what the USSR was interested in is to export the revolution to the west, but even communists saw that its just russian imperialsm after backstabbing poland

it was not a preemptive strike, it was the biggest gamble shitler took for lebensraum, resources and wealth

That's fucking retarded like all other Nazi apologism that's been plaguing this board lately. Nazis had terrible intelligence and seriously underestimated power of Soviets, that's why he launched the assault. There is little reason to think Hitler through of Stalin as a serious threat.

>reaction to the massive threat of the Soviet state invading Western Europe
Stalin only ever invaded Eastern Europe, western Europe was out of his reach ever since the post-war revolutions failed.

So why invade Poland and attempt to invade Finland? Why interfere in Spain?

Because as the successor state of the Russian Empire it wanted the same borders, and it's pretty clear their goal in Spain was not a Republican victory; they spent most of it killing other socialists

>Why interfere in Spain?
Same reason as everyone else

>So why invade Poland and attempt to invade Finland?
M-R pact

>Why interfere in Spain?
>Damn Commies why the fuck would they intervene in Spain
>Nazis and Italians intervene as well
>dey dindu nuffin dey good bois, Barbarossa was self defence

>Stalin only ever invaded Eastern Europe
Protip: places like Czechia, Hungary and East Germany weren't considered Eastern Europe until the Cold War. And before WW1, Eastern Europe pretty much meant just "Russia".

Stalin never invaded Czechia, the rest were members Axis who brought it on themselves.

>Because as the successor state of the Russian Empire it wanted the same borders,

If you apply this rubric to historical German borders, doesn't this make Hitler's actions in Poland/Czechia/Austria/etc defensible?

>Why interfere in Spain?
>Same reason as everyone else
Territorial expansion of Soviet ideology?

Why would you think murdering priests and destroying churches wouldn't elicit a response from conservative Europe? Are you saying that you find leftwing actions in Spain warranted and justified?

>Stalin never invaded Czechia
Stalin "liberated" Czechia and it got it awarded to the Soviet sphere of power at the conference of Yalta.

>If you apply this rubric to historical German borders, doesn't this make Hitler's actions in Poland/Czechia/Austria/etc defensible?
Austria, Bohemia, Moravia and Congress Poland were never part of any state called Germany

>historical German borders
Sudetenland was a part of Bohemia long before Germany, or even Austrian empire for that matter even existed.

Commies in Europe in the teen's/20's/30's: "Hey, we're going to start a bunch of shit and kill people, including priests and kings and generally try and destroy conservative Europe and everything that they hold dear."
Conservative Europe: "Uh, hey, don't fucking do that, and if you do, we'll have to react to defend ourselves."
Commies: "Yeah, fuck you dad."
Conservative Europe reacts
Commies: "OMG WTF, you guys are monsters, how dare you, American pigdogs please help!"

Germany invaded Poland and Germany also interfered in Spain. Most Soviet expansion is do to the M-R pact where they divided their spheres of influence. Stalin supported the Socialism in one country idea and didn't support other communists except in Spain.

>If you apply this rubric to historical German borders, doesn't this make Hitler's actions in Poland/Czechia/Austria/etc defensible?

He's not defending it though, you complete idiot. He's saying that they weren't a serious threat to eastern Europe. The evidence can be seen in how completely unprepared they were when the Germans invaded.

Cringe

Lol, obviously, we all know "Germany" was founded in 1871, are you denying that those territories were never under the control of people that any reasonable, non-autistic person would call culturally 'German"?

>Send German cop killer to kill as many Trotskites (real or imagined) and anarchists as he can while the war isn't even going well
>Support

>Paris commune: WE WILL DESTROY YOUR SANCTUARIES, RAZE YOUR CITIES, MURDER YOUR ELITES, SLAUGHTER YOUR CLERGY
>Russian revolution: WE WILL DESTROY YOUR SANCTUARIES, RAZE YOUR CITIES, MURDER YOUR ELITES, SLAUGHTER YOUR CLERGY
>Spanish civil war: WE WILL DESTROY YOUR SANCTUARIES, RAZE YOUR CITIES, MURDER YOUR ELITES, SLAUGHTER YOUR CLERGY
>Chinese revolution: WE WILL DESTROY YOUR SANCTUARIES, RAZE YOUR CITIES, MURDER YOUR ELITES, SLAUGHTER YOUR CLERGY
>Cambodian revolution: WE WILL DESTROY YOUR SANCTUARIES, RAZE YOUR CITIES, MURDER YOUR ELITES, SLAUGHTER YOUR CLERGY
>50 years later: b-but communists weren't the bad guys, we dindu nuffin, we j-just wanted scientific advancement, freedom for the workers and human rights and shieeet
I'm not even a nazi but communists are literal subhumans. Every communist revolution ever was a glorified chimpout aiming to completely erase a civilization.

>Territorial expansion of Soviet ideology?
Basically, just as Nazi and westerners were expanding theirs

By that time Czechs were the biggest tankies of Europe, with communists ending up as the most powerful party in 1946 elections. You woldn't find many people there who would put the liberation into " " .

That wasn't the argument you made though, Germany wasn't a successor state to A-H is all I'm saying

>Why do people act as if Operation Barbarossa wasn't in reaction to the massive threat of the Soviet state invading Western Europe?
Cause this threat was largely theoretical and there's no good evidence of any Soviet plans to invade Europe. Stalin was a cautious man who liked to pick on little countries, not big ones. I'm sure he would have loved to control Europe, but I'm not aware of there being any reason to believe that he was actually planning an attack.
>Obviously it didn't go well, but the clear threat of the Soviet colossus makes his actions understandable, no?
The colossus that was led by a paranoid maniac who kept killing his own generals and that failed to beat Finland?

And even if Stalin was planning to invade Europe, how in the world was Hitler starting a war with Poland, England, and France supposed to be of any help? A Germany that genuinely, sincerely wanted to help defend Europe from the Soviets would have provided Poland with some sort of genuine defense agreement, not invaded it. It would have worked together with England, France, and other nations to create some sort of mutual defense pact, not alarmed them with angry ranting and gobbling-up of land.

>i'll completely ignore the context of their outrage.

Good move, that way you wont be bothered with having to ask why these workers movements formed and why they were so angry. No doubt you think it's a masonic conspiracy or something stupid.

This is a good reply. I'd only counter that Poland was unfortunately retarded after Pilsudski, who had a good relationship with Hitler. The Poles were hopped up on lies from the French/Brits and got their shit rekt. Hitler might have still fucked them up, but in the end the Soviets screwed them, so, there's not a ton of functional difference IMO.

meant for

>Germany wasn't a successor state to A-H is all I'm saying
Why though? What's the cut-off point for successor states? Poland was resurrected after how many centuries?

>King of Bohemia invites German colonists to settle in Bohemian crownlands and live under Bohemian rulers
>several centuries later: SUDETENLAND SHOULD GO TO GERMANY BECAUSE GERMANS LIVE THERE
Applying the same logic, the Ruhrgebeit should be annexed by Turkey because Turks live there, and California should be annexed by Mexico because Mexicans live there.

Weimar Germany / Hitler's Germany was clearly a heir to the German empire, not to Austria-Hungary. Bohemia never belonged to German empire.

Ok, fine, I withdraw Bohemia from my argument. My point was that the guy I was replying to felt that historical Russian borders were applicable to the modern Soviet state, and by that rubric some of Hitler's demands were also defensible.

He was explaining Stalin's reasoning for wanting Finland, and how that doesn't apply to the rest of Europe you fucking idiot. That's not the same as saying he was right to try and take it.

>backstabbing Poland
Its called payback

Relax friend, we're having a nice discussion, it's ok.

you are just a dumb reactionary, worse than nazis, we would be still living in caves if its up to ppl like you

We would be living in ruins, gulags and uranium mining camps if it was up to the communists.
>ppl
Fuck off back to r*ddit.

Stalin payed the clouds in Ukraine to not rain, ate all the grain and made majority of Czechs and Slovaks vote KSČ.
Trotskists are just Red bourgeoise and Trotsky was Red Jew.
>paranoid maniac who kept killing his own generals
soundsl iek a Hitler to me
>failed to beat Finland
this meme again

>we would be still living in caves if its up to ppl like you
Isn't everything most things that are not caves and berrypicking a Patriarchial construct though?

Did you just replied to yourself or can't you spot an obvious false flag?

Meanwhile the social democrats achieved through negotiations and collective bargaining what shitbrained communists couldn't achieve through 30 consecutive chimpouts.

>everytime Veeky Forums discuss ideology

Marx literally praised prehistoric retarded caveman societies as true communism.

no shitstain, YOU fuck off
fucking american sharter, ive never been to reddit but you are so fucking uneducated, lack any kind of knowledge of anything related to history it just revolting how you dare open your shitshole of a mouth

i havent said anything about communism, i simply said you are a reactionary who always stand in the way of change, AND GUESS WHAT SHITSTAIN? YOU ARE ALLOWED TO LIVE BECAUSE THERE WAS CHANGE? VIOLENT CHANGE, LIKE YOUR SHITBRAIN CUNT ALLOWED TO EXIST BY FRENCH

kill yourself asap, and do humanity a favour along with this humourless fatso right here

Himmler literally called Nordic cavemen racial supperior to Romans, Greeks and Egyptian.,

>fucking american sharter
I'm not even American, take your dank reddit tier memes back to /int/ where they belong and keep trying to amuse the 12 year old pizzafaces that gather there. Seriously nothing but cancer has ever came from that board.

So your point is that Himmler was just as stupid as the average communist, can't argue with that.

horseshoe theory is true

Yeah, because they were typically found in places that hadn't been actively denying every single attempt at peaceful reformation.

Considering his views on historical determinism, he probably considered it a necessary step in the process, not something to be aspired to.