Fascist Theory of race vs National Socialist theory of race

I think I've found a good analogy to elaborate on why I don't care about who mussolini became and what the ideology became during its swan song: Horowitz was a supporter of the black panthers and a hardcore liberal, now he is anything but. We can discuss early Horowitz and his ideas while acknowledging that he had an about face. Similarly Wittgenstein's theories radically changed throughout his life, yet some like to talk about his earlier ideas.

That's not true. Many many white supremacists believe blacks are inferior and want them the fuck out of the country or outright eliminated. Very few believe they should be slaves. Conspiracy theories aside, Hitler believed the germans were superior to jews and wanted them to be exterminated (or moved if you don't believe in the holocaust but I give literally zero fucks about that debate so let's take that at face value).

How come? In the US Civil war, I see the Union as basically white nationalists and the Confederacy as white supremacists.

Then you have a radical misunderstanding of the US civil war. Many many Union soldiers were outright white supremicists who just believed slavery was wrong. Lincoln was one of the few who believed they should be sent out of the country.

Hence why when the North won the blacks didn't go bye bye.

i was saying white supremacy is just the belief that whites are superior. the desire to subjugate non-whites isn't necessarily part of it.

It leads into subjugation though.

Not just that, it's the belief that whites should have the authority over non-whites.

Since when fascism needs to become politically correct?

You are forgetting Italians were considered less worthy than Germans. This of course deeply triggered our cracker eating, milk slurping manlet.

However Benito backed down, when Hitler told him he can be mastarace Iranian like him.

it can but it's the same with any ethno-supremacist ideology.

Take the host of Radical Adgenda. He'd probably deny it but it's pretty accurate to call him a white supremacist rather than just a white nationalist, yet he really just wanted blacks to get the fuck out rather than for them to learn their place under the bootheel of white authority.

No doubt though, I will admit that white supremacy CAN lead to subjugation, just not that it always or even usually goes that way. You vary rarely even see edgy nat-soc types calling for enslavement.

I do not believe that is true. Post the Manifesto of Race Hitler and Mussolini became pals. You gotta understand, these guys were very down to bend the rules of their ideology for political power. I mean, the Japanese were considered "honorary Aryans" by the Germans even though that is ideologically absurd.

>You are forgetting Italians were considered less worthy than Germans.
Source: your anus

The North didn't want to enslave nogs, but they didn't want to keep them out, either. Nogs served the same role in the North as slaves did for the South.

That would be white superiority, supremacy implies dominance over others, ie, that your race is "supreme" among the >implied many races.

Northern Italians were considered Aryan, Southern Italians were considered inferior but not subhuman.

It's hard to believe in racial supremacy when you're a country of mutts.

>still no source

It literally does not. Black supremacy exists, which should be impossible under your definition.

*insert race* supremacy means that you believe your race is superior to others.

That's just not true.

"he Fascist regime also justified the annexation of Albania on the basis that, because several hundred thousand people of Albanian descent had been absorbed into society in southern Italy already, the incorporation of Albania was a reasonable measure that would unite people of Albanian descent into one state.[26] The Fascist regime endorsed Albanian irredentism, directed against the predominantly Albanian-populated Kosovo and Epirus – particularly in Chameria inhabited by a substantial number of Albanians.[27] After Italy annexed Albania in 1939, the Fascist regime endorsed assimilating Albanians into Italians and colonizing Albania with Italian settlers from the Italian Peninsula to gradually transform it into an Italian land.[28] The Fascist regime claimed the Ionian Islands as Italian territory, on the basis that the islands had belonged to the Venetian Republic from the mid-14th until the 18th century.[29]"

This is wikipedia, sure, but I'm seeing 0 sources for your claims which I and others have said seems to be based in nothing.

If this is just "your understanding of things" then that's fine, this can be a learning moment because I'm pretty sure you're just absolutely wrong. If you can provide some good evidence that I'm wrong I'm ready and willing to hear it and re-evaluate.

Black Supremacists believe blacks should enslave whites, not that whites should be expelled from a "black homeland", those would be the Black Separatists.

Where are you getting this information? Assuming you're the same person who has been making these claims they're literally all wrong.

Nation of Islam for example was for a long time a black supremacist organization who ALWAYS wanted a separate state.

Black separatism is based on the idea that they just want a separate state based on a shared identity.

Please stop making these ridiculous claims without giving at least some source that "mainstream" black supremicist organizations are advocating for this. By this I mean that I can probably easily find some /pol/ guy who wants black slaves but I can find no such neo-nat-soc org that wants enslavement.

You are both forgetting that Mussolini was a massive opportunist and was willing to do whatever to consolidate power and accomplish his goals, the entire decision to make an alliance was based off of that reasoning, and the adoption of racial laws even though they went completely against his previously expressed ideology is also based on this reasoning. Even these racial laws were ones that weren't even enforced in Italy at the time

>Mussolini was a fucking clown and him being mislead from his own ideology by another clown (Hitler) proves it
Those rascals, friends to the end.

What does it mean, to be "supreme" among the races in a mono-racial country?

I'm the second quoted and that's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. However I do believe he had racial believes in line with the original quote I included in the OP.

mono-racial countries are the end-goal of supremacist thinking. The only thing it would mean is that they wouldn't let other races into the country once they have set it up.

"We are better and we thing you're all criminals and a detriment to the state so get out. Great, now we live in a state with the best race, goal succeeded."

White supremacy is a """""common"""" view point (in that a few million people in the US probably hold white supremacist beliefs (this number is pulled out of my ass based on daily stormer traffic numbers), white supremacy coupled with co--existence of another race in the country which will be subjugated is virtually unheard of. I can think of several white supremacist e-celebs, I can think of literally 0 pro-subjugation e-celebs.

>mono-racial countries are the end-goal of supremacist thinking
Not really. British empire was a supremacist country, I don't think people like G.R. Rockwell wants to recreate the British empire.

>"We are better and we thing you're all criminals and a detriment to the state so get out. Great, now we live in a state with the best race, goal succeeded."

That's the reasoning and ambition of White Nationalists, not of White Supremacists. The WN want a "White ethno-state" because they think non-Whites are trash, but the WS want to re-enslave the nogs, and probably the chinks and spics too, and put them to work on behalf of the master race.

>le Mussolini was a clown/stupid meme

End this. Mussolini was a huge intellectual who hid his powerlevel to appear as a 'strongman'.

Why do so few people focus on any history besides the 20th century?

No. White nationalists believe that whites and blacks cannot co-exist peacefully and they believe in the value of preserving their race as it is part of their heritage and they view themselves in a tribal sense.

I was talking to this Jewish girl at a party who is (kind of) a zionist. She wants a state for jews because it is an identity she wants protected in a nationalistic context. A homeland for her people you see. This girl is not a supremacist though, as she herself has a non-jewish father, has mostly non-jewish friends, and doesn't consider her people superior. There ARE zionists (and she herself mentioned this), who hold that only certain "true blue" jews should be welcome and actively view non-jews are inferior. Here we see the difference between a jewish nationalist and a jewish supremacist.

>WS want to re-enslave the nogs, and probably the chinks and spics too

Name a movement that actively campaigns for this. The American Nazi party does not advocate for this and they're pretty fucking white supremacist.

Because the two world wars were the most significant events in history in terms of shaping our present circumstances.

They do, but in terms of political history old world political systems don't scale well to countries with hundreds of millions of people.

In terms of plain history I've had plenty of conversations on various greek wars, plato, the Ottoman empire, etc. but I'm personally on a political history kick.

Expect it to shift around year 3 of trump when people stop caring about politics hard core again.

I photographed my anus for you, do you find it more believable now?

Didn't know Madison Grant lived in nazi Germany.

Cool.

Stop posting unrelated shit then.

How is that "unrelated shit"? Madison Grant was Hitler main source on racial shit, IIRC he even called one of Grants works his personal bible.

No, he wasn't. Grant's racial model is completely different from nazi racial model. Read Gunther's books instead of fucking wikipedia, brainlet.

Mussolini was not a clown, and fascism is not a undefined ideology. Fascism central tenets are the state, corporativism and nationalism. racial/esoterical bullshit isn´t part of all fascist regimes. Also mussolini biggest mistake was declaring war against the allies in June 1940.

>No, he wasn't. Grant's racial model is completely different from nazi racial model

So you be sayin' that for Gunther Meds weren't less worthy than the Nordics? Or that Nazi historians didn't fell for the "Ancient Roman elite was Nordic" meme?

>The name "Aryan race" must also be frankly discarded as a term of racial significance. It is today purely linguistic, although there was at one time, of course, an identity between the original Aryan mother tongue and the race that first spoke and developed it. In short there is not now, and there never was either a Caucasian or an Indo-European race.
- Madison Grant, Passing of the Great Race

You really think nazis based their entire racial theory on this guy? If anything Lothrop Stoddard was far more influential.