Who was in the right here?

FPBP.

Because tge Persians were the real good guys.

Dumb nigger Greeks constantly trying to backstab each other to establish a hegemony over their backwater peninsula. Meanwhile the Persians next door have united essentially the entire ancient world under one government, with a great deal of cultural and religious freedom for all of her subjects. Even the Greekd end up asking for Persians to intervene and help them screw each other over. Greeks were essentially the Afghans of the ancient world.

I say this as a huge general Grecoboo too, from Hellenistic to Roman to Byzantine Greece. Shit, I'm Orthodox even. Pelopponesian war era Greece, despite being really fascinating and dynamic as a historical period, is kind of an embarassment compared to what non-Greeks were up to. Thank God for Philip of Macedon.

i don't get it, didn't he greeks beat back the Persians only a few decades prior? but they're nigger tier?
and how are they like the afghans of the ancient world? greek philosophy is foundational to western civilization

Greece needs more granularity with territories tbqh

Spartans did everything in their power to stop the war, but athenians couldn't just behave like decent human beings

Also Alcibiades did nothing wrong
And Brasidas is my husbando

i think the descent of the greeks into petty infighting and outright atrocities against each other during the Peloponnesian War shows how illusory their finest hour against the Persians in the 480s was. They kept their independence but in the end Sparta enlisted a Persian fleet to destroy Athenian naval power and bring to its knees the very Greek city that helped to ward off the Persians the first time. It's tragic and shameful, even if this very moral ambiguity and political chaos probably produced philosophy i.e. Socrates and Plato and some of the best literature and most famous historical figures of the period.

The Vietcong beat back the USA but that doesn't make Vietnam a great and powerful nation. Greece at the time was seen by pretty much everyone to the east as a silly backwater that happened to produce ridiculously good soldiers. It only ended up relevant outside of the Aegean because it was spread by the Macedonians and later the Romans (with their own twist on it).

Greek culture and philosophy IS in large part the basis of the West, but it itself was heavily influenced by Egyptian, Levantine and Mesopotamian cultures. Not to discount Plato and the other Greek scholars and philosophers, who were wonderful themselves. Also keep in mind, the Western tradition is as much Roman as it is Greek, although Roman culture itself was heavily hellenized, and increasingly so after conquering Greek lands.

So the Greeks ARE great, and like I said at this point in time have a very advanced and valuable culture, but they don't become really relevant until Philip unites them under his rule and his son BTFOs the entire known world and then some. At this point in time they're acting like retarded niggers killing each other by the thousands when an imperial power is right next door.

t. butthurt kebab
>muh big Persian empire
And then? Persia had a big empire - so what? It was simply one in a looooooong line of run of the mill Eastern empires (Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Media, Babylon) all of which were carbon copies of each other, same art, same unimaginative autocracies with no intellectual innovations anywhere near the scale of the "dumb nigger Greeks" with their Thales, Pythagoras, Homer, Sappho, Democritus and endless others.
>pic related = mfw you are only using internet because of Renaissance (inspired by Golden Age Greece) leading to modern world and all its wonders.

>Sp*rtans
>Real Hellenes
Dorianiggers OUT

I guarantee I'm whiter than you faggot. Like I said, I'm a fan of the Greeks. But the era between the Persian war and Philip is riddled with autism and tragedy. The Greeks were nobodied until they were unified.

Why do you hate liberty?

kek, not to mention that eventually the Persians had their anuses ravaged by Alexander the great, ushering in the hellenistic era, where the backward dumb nigger greeks ruled the entire middle east, all the way to india, where all accepted the superior greek culture or were influenced by it strongly(in the case of India) up until the muslims ruined everything(even under the romans the middle east was greek, the bible was written in greek)

>up until the muslims ruined everything

Hellenistic culture in much of the ME was done by the time the Sassanids came to power. Rome completed the end of Hellenistic era.

Sparta, obv. Both for their hypocrisy and for ultimately undermining the greeks by confronting Athens instead of Persia in the 5th century.

Greece became a much more peaceful place after it was conquered, if the Persians hadn't been stopped the first time they invaded an entire century of war may have been prevented

>Why do you hate liberty?
brainlet?

Persians had more liberty and freedom than Spartan militaristic faggots.

I have the most sympathy for Athens' smaller allies. Democracies, but without a shitton of metics and slaves turning them into "democracies". Too bad they got bullied by Athens as much as they did Sparta.

Persians weren't muslim, sweety.

Massalia !

>Why do you hate liberty?
meme, Athens may have invented democracy but it was a far cry from anything recognizable today. 90% of the people living in Athens were either slaves, non-citizens (who had no chance to become citizens) or women who had no civil rights at all and couldn't even leave the house without a male escort.

The Spartans were just as bad, they were only able to support their lifestyle of being full time soldiers through keeping a massive underclass of helots, slaves who did all the farming. They were treated quite brutally by their Spartan overlords, subject to a mandatory annual beating, and some would be killed at random to instill fear in the rest. Any even suspected to be fomenting insurrection, or just felt to be too smart were hunted down and killed.

So user, why do YOU hate liberty?

NuAcademia meme, basically. Sort of a counter Eurocentrism position that dictates the Greeks would have been better off as a Persian Polity

Unironically Sparta.

The person who proposed this was smoking crack, or are we going to pretend the Ionian revolt never happened? It was the sol reason for the Persian wars and why the Persians were so hell bent on conquering the Greeks. The Greek city states were richer, prosperous, more technologically and intellectually advanced, if anything what the Persians were afraid is Persia becoming a Greek polity, which was of course what eventually happened with Alexander.

>liberty
nice spook

>alexander
>greek

There are terrible misconceptions about ancient slavery propagaded to this day. Did you know slaves in antiquity were actually paid? Please tell me how this is any different from modern wage slavery, which albeit could be even worse in some cases since you may have no way to survive even with minimum wage, while the ancient slave, was housed and fed by his master.

Yes he was Greek and not a larping slav.

>Greek city states were richer, prosperous, more technologically advanced

Lol no they weren't.

>macedon
>greek

Alexander the Great spread the usage of koine Greek(simplified version of Attic/Ionian Greek) from Anatolia to Afghanistan and Egypt.Besides,he himself stated that he was Greek.

But that's not because they practiced some ethical form of slavery: at the end of the day people were the lawful property of others, bought and traded as such. Half the reason why Athens suffered from chronic rebellions was because they were a tributary empire extracting wealth from its provinces to fund huge public works projects at home

It's simply a function of technology: more advanced technology allows for people to be controlled to far greater degree. it can be used to free them, but it can also be used to subject them to horrors that the ancients could never have fathomed.

Some Greek city states where definately rich and prosperous due to trade which they controlled along with Phoenicians.Other Greek kingdoms like Epirus,Macedon,Thessaly were not rich and relied heavily on agriculture/livestock

>it can be used to free them, but it can also be used to subject them to horrors that the ancients could never have fathomed.

Odd how when new technology comes along, the first instinct is to use for something horrible rather than good.

Philosophers that literally only survived because Sparta recognised the contributions of Athens during the Persian wars.

Thebes opposed peace repeatedly during the war, and ultimately called for Athens to be totally destroyed. Sparta was literally the saviour of Hellenic civilization and allowed its future achievements.

Thebans, subhuman boeotian savages that they were, would have eliminated one of the greatest civilizations to ever exist.

Thebes betrayed Hellas at every point in its history. The city should have been destroyed long before Alexander arrived on scene.

>The Greek city states were richer, prosperous, more technologically and intellectually advanced

You seem to be the one smoking crack there bud.

Actual Greeks considered them barbarians from the north though. Next you'll have us believing the Ottomans were Romans because they said they were.

Alexander was literally cosplaying as his Persian husbando.

>Actual Greeks considered them barbarians from the north though
What actual Greeks moron?Only Demosthenes didn't like the Macedon king.On the other hand you have Isocrates,who was the first to dream about a united Greek state and urged Alexander to unite Greeks into one state.
>Next you'll have us believing the Ottomans were Romans because they said they were
They spoke Greek,they wrote Greek,their tombs have ancient Greek writings on them and they also identified as Greeks.For me that's more than enough proof.

don't break the faggot's dreams. Next he will think that persia became forever greek instead of greeks LARPing as shahs

do you also believe the timbuctu mosque, great zimbabwe and inca terraces were superior to anything in europe

>he actually thinks that athens compared to persepolis.

Are you me?

DO IT AGAIN BOMBER ALEX

>NuAcademia meme
You are unironically retarded.

Yep.

Well you are definitely right that the Persians wanted to crush the mainland Greeks, particularly Athens and Thebes, for being the equivalent in their eyes to terrorist sponsoring states/nations. The Persians had already under Cyrus the Great peacefully annexed the Greek Ionian colonies with little military action after Cyrus destroyed the Lydian Empire in Anatolia earlier.

Obviously any major empire or kingdom was going to have issues with guys they had no qualms with before suddenly sending in weapons, mercenaries, soldiers, and attacks on Persian holdings. You don't get to cry out about being attacked when your directly sponsoring, paying, and funding said attacks on another nation or state, and that's exactly what Athens and their allies like Eritrea and Thebes did.

WHERE ARE THE HELLENICS?!?

>Did you know slaves in antiquity were actually paid? Please tell me how this is any different from modern wage slavery
Right, hence that Lenin quote.

t. I have no idea what I'm talking about
The Ionian revolt was caused by Aristagoras being an ass (while trying to get into Darius' good graces none the less)

Wasn't it due to the fact he constantly is said to have lied to Darius' envoys about his popularity wen the truth was he was an extremely hated tyrant and when he realized how badly he fucked up an expedition for conquest, he tried to switch sides?

i don't disagree. One thing you can say about Sparta is that it was a moderate power that only wanted to keep the status quo.