Was the Byzantine Empire Roman, Greek or Christian?
To what degree did the respective Roman and (classic) greek heritage influence the life and self perception of the people?
Was it feudal in the Western sense?
etc. etc.
It's sad that such a fascinating part of history gets so obscured
>was the Byzantine Empire Roman, Greek, or Christian?
It was Roman, Greek, and Christian.
Byzacucks kill yourselves already you're the cancer of /his
all of the above
no it wasn't feudal, the Latin empire's introduction of feudalism fucked up the administration and the empire in general
they referred to themselves as rhomaioi up until the 1900s, so very much so
/thread
It was gay
Ethnically Greek
Culturally Christian
Politically Roman
this, /thread
Is this bait or are you legit retarded?
They're right, what's your problem
When the island [Lemnos] was occupied by the Greek navy [in 1912], Greek soldiers were sent to the villages and stationed themselves in the public squares. Some of us children ran to see what these Greek soldiers, these Hellenes looked like. ‘‘What are you looking at?’’ one of them asked. ‘‘At Hellenes,’’ we replied. ‘‘Are you not Hellenes yourselves?’’ he retorted. ‘‘No, we are Romans."
(Taken from Hellenism in Byzantium by Anthony Kaldellis).
One can assume they considered themselves roman.
Of course they were ethnically greek etc.
That was not the question. How desperate to appear smart do you have to be to answer a thread this way?
meant for
That's just generations of institutional LARPing
>Was the Byzantine Empire Roman, Greek or Christian
None on those things are mutually exclusive.
This post is correct.
The Emperor Constantine moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium. It would be weird if they didn't consider themselves Roman considering they were literally the capital of the Roman empire from 331 AD onwards.
We're talking about fucking 1912, it'd be like a kid 700 years from now saying he's a Soviet citizen because he's Russian
Tsarist Russia considered itself the Third Rome and they had a much lesser claim than the Byzantines.
What's your point?
>politically roman
Didn't it become feudalised?
>retarded children in 1912 claim to be Roman
What aren't you understanding exactly? It's literally fucking WE WUZ shit
In the last 200 or so years, sure, but it had existed for around 800 years up until then, depending on what completely arbitrary date you decide to stop calling it the Roman Empire
Where's the 1912 thing coming from?
We are talking about Byzantium becoming the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire which happened in 331 AD.
The wewuzers came later, with the Russians and Ottomans bickering about who was the successor to Byzantium.
Tsar means literally "Caesar"
They 100% saw themselves as Roman till the last day, though biblical analogies became reccurent in the end ( we are the new Jerusalem etc etc), they literally called the land they owned Romania after all.
Now was it feudal? No, but they did have some sort of administrative devolution of power to the themes first, with military commanders holding a lot of power, which thos commanders slowly starting to became hereditary positions in Magnate families. So it's a bit like late western feudalism, with a couple of very powerful """noble""" (although they weren't noble in the western sense, as rather than going from military leader to rich landlord it was more rich landlord to military leader) families basically have authority over vast swaths of the Empire and having near feudal power over some of the peasantry who were also divided in several kinds(quite in the same way as there were serfs/ villains etc in the west), however the Emperor tried to keep the peasant's properties in their own hands rather than let the magnates gobble it all up to curb their influence and preserve the independence of the peasantry (can be useful when you're trying to raise an army).
So you didn't have the barons, the knights, the counts and whatsnot, just a handful of Magnate families with the regular administration below them and above them (with twists like the Pronoia in the late empire, which were land grants (with the tax revenue attached) to aristocrats and military officers). But once again, most of the peasantry were free, and didn't bear the same kind of feudal duties as the western serfs did.
>Where's the 1912 thing coming from?
The post I replied to? Can you not follow a thread?
I still call it the Eastern Roman Empire and force everyone to call it that way. However, I'm not sure how they were called in those years.
For example they call themselves the Roman Empire, they considered themselves roman citizens.
How did diplomats and leaders called the Byzantine Empire? Are there any documents on that?
No it isn't. It's like a kid today saying he is Russian, just like he would have 700 years ago if living say, in Novogorod or Muscovy. Plus you could be a soviet from kazakhstan. If you'd ask him "oh, which SSR kiddo", he'd say he was russian.
remember that romans imposed their culture/language onto the people they conquered so its not surprised if greeks considered themselve romans
it was romans that made them that way
The ERE hadn't existed for almost 500 years when these dipshit kids opened their mouths, you don't hear Germans calling themselves fucking Holy Romans in WW1, and that disintegrated far later
You're comparing two totally different situations. Nobody ever called themselves "Holy Romans", it was never an identity, just the name of a state.
Both would be LARPing, you're defending it and I don't really know why
>Roman
No
>Greek
Yes, esspecially after Heraclius
>Christian
After Theodosius yes
I personally believe there are too many differences between Roman Empire vs Basileia twn Rwmaiwn, administrevely, millitarily etc. But thats just my opinion. So I rather consider them two seperate entities rather than a continuation, but of course you can disagree with me with ease.
How Greek it was is also a nice question, Hellenism in Byzantine Empire is getting a lot of attention these days but it is safe to assume that after Heraclius the empire became "greek" completely, both by the increased greekness and decrease in other stuff, such as writing in latin, and also in the loss of non greek territories to islamic conquests.
Was it Christian? I think this is the strongest identitiy of all, It was truly a Christian Empire while this solidified under Theodosius the empire was already under heavy christian influence before him (unlike in greekness debate for example, when you have emperors who don't know greek, law codes written in latin instead of greek etc) Even if you count Diocletian (as some do) as the first "byzantine" emperor the official status of Paganism was divindling and was pushed away from the state / goverment and culture more faster than the push of non greek elements.
fpbp
It's not LARPing, their ancestors were Romans, and they still maintained a similar culture to their ancestors. They were still identified as Romans in census figures.
Ironically you've kind of proved that user's point for him. Nobody in the HRE identified as a Holy Roman, most of them called themselves Germans, despite the fact that there was no stately representation of then German identity. In th same way there were enclaves of Roman identity after 1453, despite the fact that there was no Roman state anymore.
They were delusional fucking wogs and have been since the Turks blew them the fuck out, WE WUZ BASILEUS N SHIT
>but it is safe to assume that after Heraclius the empire became "greek" completely
If you called someone living in the Byzantine Empire of Heraclius' era a Greek or a Hellene they would probably try to have you arrested, it had an association with paganism.
Greek identity in the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire was basically nonexistent until the 13th century, and even then it died down again once the Empire reformed.
>Was the Byzantine Empire Roman, Greek or Christian
It was Roman in the sense that it was the remaining bit of the Roman Empire and carried on Rome's political, and military traditions, though of course they were ethnically Greek and spoke Greek. They also practised Christianity.
What does 1912 have to do with this? Byzantium was the capital of the Roman Empire from 331 - 1453 AD.
I absolutely agree with you, again this is MY opinion, I don't consider them "Roman" either but they surely considered and called themselves Roman.
My observation is from outside, it is not "how byzantines thought of themselves" it is "how I think of them"
as a sidenote, interestingly Julian also called his religion as "Hellenic".
this
>How did diplomats and leaders called the Byzantine Empire?
Roman Empire, Empire of the Romans, Romania, or Empire of the Greeks
>Can't read a reply
I'd call you reddit, but I think even they could work that out
>It was Roman in the sense that it was the remaining bit of the Roman Empire
Byzantium was literally the capital of the Roman Empire from 331 AD onwards. It's silly to argue that the capital of the Roman empire somehow isn't Roman.
Yeah absolutely, the USA with a new capital and half its territory would still be the USA.
So you're arguing that the Roman empire ceased to exist the moment the capital was moved? That's childish and silly. The emperor certainly didn't feel that way.
I'm agreeing with you, I'm not arguing at all.
It was all three of them.
/thread
This, depending on how polite the diplomats were being. Calling them Greeks and the empire Greek Empire was a bit of an insult because was seen as (and totally was) an attempt to delegitimize their status as the heirs of Rome and leaders of the Christian world.