Major Cultural Change - Japan

I'm very interested in how radical idealogical change occurs.

It doesn't take much looking at Japan to realize that they're this strange mishmash of western ideals and eastern ideals. The fact that the Americans basically bombed the nationalism and deification of the emperor out of them, then rebuilt them to what they are today astounds me.

>break up old feudal holds on land
>installed a democratic system that is still stable today
>fed them new deal policies till we had to red scare them in the face of communist russian
>they are naturaly conservative thanks to confusian influence
>their progressive party calls itself the japanese communist party because even their own commies are nowadays so conservative that they don't even feel like dropping their name

Cont.

In terms of modern progressivism, its very interesting if we compare to the west's:

>while there is very much a patriarchy and glass ceiling for women, their entire population is so overworked that women openly are fine with being stay at home moms, as raising kids and working is nearly impossible
>their right wing conservative Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe is trying to increase diversity in the workplace not out of a progressive call for equality, but to boost the economy

As a burger is interesting to see the right wing approach to progressivism.

I read pic related, Tezuka's story about how one familly deals with American ocupation. Its 60's manga corny and fucked up in plenty of spaces but the idea of one family dealing with radical cultural change was incredibly interesting.

Can you guys tell me anything more about the transition from Nationalist Imperial Japan to their modern state? How long did reconstruction take? How long did it take for Japan to seemingly stand on its own two feet? What was the japanese response to their economic recession in the 1990s that they're still recovering from? Did the recession humble them in a similar way to losing WW2?

Reading suggestions would be helpful too, historical manga would be particularly lit. I read Onward Towards Our Noble Deaths in one sitting.

It's easy to create something new when you napalmed everything old

Japan is an outlier. That was not the first time they experienced large culture shifts. The Meiji one was much larger.

Feminism didn't lead to happier women. It may lead to a larger GDP, but it won't lead to happier women.

Well, yeah. With buildings its easy.

I'm talking generational. Is that just it, time?

>What was the japanese response to their economic recession in the 1990s that they're still recovering from? Did the recession humble them in a similar way to losing WW2?

For the second question, no. I lived there in the late 90s and I guess the best way of putting it is that blow from WW2 is lot like using a pin to burst a balloon, with the recession it was more like you just untied the balloon and let it deflat. Now it's just lying on the ground, looking and feeling rather pathetic and shriveled. It created a lot of apathy in people.

>Feminism didn't lead to happier women. It may lead to a larger GDP, but it won't lead to happier women.

Never said it did. Especially not in Japan where working sucks your soul away.

Its another difference I notice even in LGBT manga. They tend to focus on sorting out self image issues, such that they're okay with themselves, no matter who they're fucking. Much less on the idea of an external oppressor.

Especially talking about pic related, where its more about existentialism and her depression.

>>break up old feudal holds on land
Zaibatsu were essentially "feudal lords" only dressed back into fancy suits.
>installed a democratic system that is still stable today
Japan is essentially a one-party state.
>fed them new deal policies till we had to red scare them in the face of communist russian
New deal is not what happened in Asia.
>they are naturaly conservative thanks to confusian influence
No one is "naturally conservative"
>their progressive party calls itself the japanese communist party because even their own commies are nowadays so conservative that they don't even feel like dropping their name
Irrelevant. Japan is a one-party state.

I'm aware of the modern megacorp having that kind of power. Did the Zaibatsu come out of of old feudal groups or was there any growth from the bottom?

This is a reason why I don't understand why the far right idealizes Japan so much. They were devastated at the end of WWII and essentially rebuilt in America's image. They have virtually nothing that's their own anymore.

Zaibatsu heard are literally descended from noble familys.
See Takeda pharmaceuticals

Japan might have lost, but they almost beat burgers at their capitalist game, can still express far-right opinions in public and are mostly still nip. Germany on the other hand is going the way of the brownening and you cant express certain opinions there. Also anime is reactionary ideology, so far-right will have people liking Japan just because of that.

That's completely wrong.

>Also anime is reactionary ideology
In what way?

>They tend to focus on sorting out self image issues, such that they're okay with themselves, no matter who they're fucking. Much less on the idea of an external oppressor.

The best alternative would be for them to become celibate, but I think that this is a much healthier way of acting than the Western model.

Yeah nothing says far-right like toddlercon and guro.

neither of those things or any of the other shit is accepted in Jap society though, they're just not illegal because it's shamefur dispray to reference such things in law unlike with the br*ts

What kind of an argument are you trying here? Niche of the niche barely is an example of anything. Catholic church has pedoshit and it's still considered right-wing.

Really? Even the moe genres are reactionary with woman who are perfect idealisations of traditional feminity. Mecha is always idealisation of war even when the author doesn't want that. Shonen is obviously "hero's journey + jungian archetypes" schlock which are reactionary(ask Zizek). Also anime portrays blatantly anti-materialist world-views mostly as good.

Fuck off an*me watching degenerate

>perfect idealisations of traditional feminity
Hardly different from Western heroines. Except in anime they are rarely even interested in boys.

Anime is an industry. Hentai is a sex-industry branch of anime. Both are completely accepted, you know why? Because it makes money, it sells. And what sells better than sex?
You /pol/tards are so funny when you try to project your LARPing cancer onto everything. Keep fapping to lolis, i'm sure it will bring you your promised white utopia some day :^)

>Hardly different from Western heroines
You really think the heroines of pop-culture in the last 5 years adhere to traditional feminity? Good looks does't directly translate to feminity.

>Both are completely accepted
this is your mind on deluded weeabooism

fuck off Davido-kun

Western heroines usually are not very virtuous.
Daenerys is a huge slut, violent, etc.

I remember watching Welcome to the NHK expecting degeneracy and sloth-pandering, and being surprised by the end with how ultimately right-wing (by American social standards at least) the message was. Anime is quite conservative relative to contemporary (90s and beyond) Western animation.

It's not like action heroines stronger than men are rare in anime.

Raging lesbianism is traditional femininity now? Good to know.

I know this is hard to accept poltard, but anime isn't some TENNO HEIKA BANZAI thing, it's a money-making industry oriented towards children and manchildren.

As is toddlercon and guro it seems.

I really don't know why you are bringing up niche stuff that barely sells as examples. Also since you are asking, yes yurishit is way more traditional than polyamory and cuck shit that the west is pushing today.

Tsunderes are certainly not equivilent to quirky progressive heroines from modern western geek culture. Older anime had those vixen types, who by modern standards are sexist.

I'm talking about action heroines, not about tsundere.

Indeed, it is.
It isn't really niche. Hentai industry is huge and on par vanilla anime industry. Are you telling me you don't look for doujins of some anime when it comes out?
>yurishit is way more traditional
Especially with lolis, NTR (cucking) and tons of other fetishes included.

>Especially with lolis, NTR (cucking) and tons of other fetishes included.

Oh, so you are now putting seasonal yurishit and obscure doujins that will never get translated in the same boat. OK, that's a very good way to argue, keep at it.\

RAUS

Marketed towards manchildren and hikkis on the underground with legality =/= "full accepted" you dolt

>toddlercon and guro and other fetishes are fully accepted in japanese society because they make money
>actually they're just tolerated and legal for various reasons including an unwillingness to legislate against them
>um akhtually wholesome cartoons that children watch before school is fully accepted checkmate
the equivalent of saying MLP r34 is fully accepted here in the west because nobody minds kids watching the show, projecting your weird fantasy liberalism onto japan is the height of weeabooism almost as bad Birry from Arkansas flying the Imperial flag and wishing eternal death on the west for dishonourable nukes in WW2
kill yourself promptly

>oh neat it's a post war Japan threa-

Somewhere two fat Japanese losers have subverted a post war America thread into an argument about Minnie Mouse

Not really. Just pointing out yet another prime example of /pol/tard mental gymnastics and hypocrisy.

For all your talk of duhjeneracy you sure love Japan's degeneracy because for some reason they're "redpilled", even though they're suffering of extremely low birthrates and are in even worse situation than West in that regard.
You are an idiot if you don't understand how much money anime/hentai industry makes annually, nor how much it advertises and promotes itself. But what do i care, keep claiming it's "redpilled" and "traditional". You only show how deluded you are.

Glad you've come to realize that fully accepted does not indeed mean what you thought previously it had meant, now go and throw yourself from a high place you disgusting menace, or fuck off back to a /v/ steam friends thread.

Do you know what fully accepted means, retard? It means it's completely ingraned into Japanese society. It means it's a recognizable medium of modern Japan's consumerist culture. It means that your average joe in Japan doesn't give a shit about it, in fact he probably masturbates to yuri after work himself.

You have no arguments, kill yourself.

How? What do they have that's actually theirs?
Their clothing? Western
Music? Western influenced
Tech? Mostly western
Government? Western influenced
What do they have besides anime?
>>inb4 "muh peepul"

>Do you know what fully accepted means, retard?
Not your tipsy little faggot definition of it which equates a legal tolerance and large local and export market with social agreeableness

>it's completely ingraned into Japanese society.
guro, toddlercon and various other deep sub-surface fetishes are NOT ingrained in Japanese society you fucking goof, where's your broofs for this bollocks you're spouting besides referencing surface shit like Yuri being profitable for artists and their corps selling to perverts

>It means that your average joe in Japan doesn't give a shit about it
So according to your addled mind if there were to be an advertisement for a fresh loli guro doujin on the biggest bill-board in the center of Tokyo tomorrow japs would be completely fine with it?
>You have no arguments, kill yourself.
Your only "arguments" so far have been a form of shifting the goal posts going from the acceptability of non-sexual childrens cartoons to drawings of children and babies being mutilated and sexualized. Absolute gaping fucking down syndrome execute yourself.

>For all your talk of duhjeneracy you sure love Japan's degeneracy because for some reason they're "redpilled", even though they're suffering of extremely low birthrates and are in even worse situation than West in that regard.


That's urbanisation and happened to non-materialist civilisations too, the decline is inevitable. Also we don't need that many people concentrated in small places. I forgot this isn't Veeky Forums, but your illiterate retardation showed me that.
Now was far as homosexuality goes(gay homosexuality, the gayness that actually matters instead of your lesbians who are fodder for hetero people to jack off) in Japan. It is very compatible with reactionary mindset, maybe you've heard about Mishima and his main themes of masculine faggorty.

>is trying to increase diversity in the workplace not out of a progressive call for equality, but to boost the economy

just like western economies you mongoloid, you only think it's different because of how they're marketed

So according to your retarded definition Japs actually hate something they produce in gigantic quantities, advertise on virtually every corner and cherish it as a prime example of their consumerist culture?
>guro, toddlercon and various other deep sub-surface fetishes are NOT ingrained in Japanese society
Sure, except for the part Japanese society keeps producing and profiting on them. Why don't the upstanding, moral Japanese citizens rebel against such degeneracy? Why don't they blame that shit on joos?
>So according to your addled mind if there were to be an advertisement for a fresh loli guro doujin on the biggest bill-board in the center of Tokyo tomorrow japs would be completely fine with it?
Have you ever seen Tokyo billboards? It's all loli idols in bikinis and tiny skirts.

Like i said, kys.
>hurr big cities
kys suburban/rural retard
>Now was far as homosexuality goes(gay homosexuality, the gayness that actually matters instead of your lesbians who are fodder for hetero people to jack off) in Japan. It is very compatible with reactionary mindset
Nice to admit all reactionaries are faggots.

Mostly because of Veeky Forums. Every board has weebs, my dude

>Catholic church has pedoshit and it's still considered right-wing.

How the fuck is the catholic church, the cornerstone of social justice and charity, right wing

>So according to your retarded definition Japs actually hate something
I'm sure a good portion stay aloof of it, video games in the West could be analagous of it with normalfags (the japanese public) disregarding its existence or interacting with it on a surface level with consoles and phone games (children's cartoons), but the analogy doesn't account for how the Japs feel about the sexual perversion and amorality of things like guro and toddlercon

>they produce in gigantic quantities
What even is a market, Japan isn't a fully collectivized socialist state with guro loli doujins being produced industrially by the state as a product, it's individuals and companies selling to perverts

>cherish it as a prime example of their consumerist culture?
you've gone off the deep end now

>Japanese society keeps producing and profiting on them.
Society profits by as much tax as guro toddler ntr tentacle nakadashi doujins rake in, which is predictably marginal unless you've knowledge of the government being propped up on it. You're constantly putting kids cartoons and this shit on a level for some reason, probably because you indulge in both the past time of a Japanese schoolchild and the most hopeless hikki.

>Why don't the upstanding, moral Japanese citizens rebel against such degeneracy?
Perhaps they'd prefer to ignore it and regard the existence of some creeps at home and abroad getting off to that stuff as nothing particularly worthy of persecution by the state which should concern itself with something more worthwhile.

>Have you ever seen Tokyo billboards? It's all loli idols in bikinis and tiny skirts.
Yeah and it's not really. Certainly absolutely zero mutilated little girls on display.

...

There isn't just guro and loli though. There is myriad of different, even weirder fetishes readily available for every depraved mind :*)

Also since you've mentioned video games, shouldn't be surprising seeing so much romance/sex themed VNs coming from Japan. Also including tons of different fetishes!
>What even is a market
Market that demands loli doujins?
>You're constantly putting kids cartoons and this shit on a level for some reason
That's because it comes from a same source. Don't you know anime studios also produce hentai? Don't you know there are ecchi animes? Anime and hentai aren't mutually exclusive.
>Perhaps they'd prefer to ignore it and regard the existence of some creeps at home
Or perhaps they consume it too. You never know!
>persecution by the state
Japan doesn't jail you for fapping to loli. They're not hypocrite Westerners. In fact Japanese officials told the West to fuck off when they tried forcing loli ban on them.
>Certainly absolutely zero mutilated little girls on display
>hurr muh extremes
They have cartoon children in sexy skimpy outfit though, that shit would be banned as soon as it appeared anywhere in the West.

>Market that demands loli doujins?
Yes, and other doujins, if there wasn't a market for them they wouldn't exist.

>That's because it comes from a same source.
Matters naught when we're talking about audiences here, companies spin whatever makes them a profit within the realm of legality.

>Japan doesn't jail you for fapping to loli. They're not hypocrite Westerners. In fact Japanese officials told the West to fuck off when they tried forcing loli ban on them.
Doesn't equate to full societal acceptance, a combination of the thing not actually being a problem and a distaste for western meddling.

Is there any argument in this post because I'm not just gonna read you rant about how great you think Nippon is you weeb cunt. Japan has a market for these things that are banned in the West as child pornography, it doesn't mean that every Japanese man woman and child loves and cherishes loli rape doujins, it's tolerated at a government and judicial level which can't be interpreted as the Japanese society accepting it as completely normal shit, there's a reason you only see it in shady anime alleys where all the western sex tourists go, if you've seen some of the documentaries on it like the one Vice did.

>if there wasn't a market for them they wouldn't exist
That's exactly the point. There is DEMAND for it. And this demand isn't exactly miniscule.
>Doesn't equate to full societal acceptance
Yes it does. How is that not acceptance? Your argument is basically "hurr there is some moralfag somewhere in Japan that doesn't like anime/hentai, therefore all Japan hates it".
>it doesn't mean that every Japanese man woman and child loves and cherishes loli rape doujins
Maybe SOME of them don't love them but they do accept them.
>if you've seen some of the documentaries on it like the one Vice did.
Sorry, don't watch Vice.