Are this Belgian and this Danish guy right?

the belgian people had no legal authority over congo during the atrocities
they had no capacity to prevent or encourage what was taking place other than when the colonies were transferred from leopold's property to the belgian state

at which point you'll notice all atrocities were immediately stopped

Who said anything about "the belgian people"? I'm obviously talking about the people who ran this thing, most of them being European and Belgian.

The rubber quotas were actually unrealistic so no matter what you'd fail it even if you managed to pass it a few times.

Also the huge social upheaval around it fucked up so many places

The Belgians asked the nogs they gave guns to (guards mostly) to cut hands from their dead to prove they had really needed to use the bullets

Then said nogs wasted bullets on hunting and afterward raided villages for hands to justify wasted bullets

They also told them to get hands if they didn't meet the rubber quotas

Myth

>it doesn't fit my worldview cleanly so it's false
ok

>you didn't meet your quota so we'll chop of your hands
How does that improve anything? I mean, it just means less hands (literally) at work.

There are no lack of people in the Congo

Failure to meet the hard quota meant death. Proof of death needed a hand as it was believed that they woudl use it for other purposes (or lie about the death. Could be anything.)

Rubber quotas then simply became payable by hand because if they can't meet it (and you will fail) you need a proof of death and you only need one hand from a person to represent ONE DEATH. So hands went off and hands became a currency for the soldiers and the villages (who needed it to pay for the quotas. Which started fights and wars over obtaining hand currency.

>So hands went off and hands became a currency

The absolute state of African societies

You say that like massacring and chopping hands off the people you want to exploit is something new (see Columbus and the conquistadors in the New World)

Nonsensical, I'm not buying it and a quick google reinforces the story from OP of essentially Africans chopping off hands to prove to the Belgians that they weren't "wasting" bullets.

I say nonsensical because your explanation literally requires people to be counter-productive and chop hands of for no real reason except as punishment that ultimately lowers the number of laborers.

seeIn many cases it's economical to do things like that than spend resources training them

The brits did this with Indians. They told them that they needed proof of a kill to get paid so Indians started scalping people

That's what happens in any ill-planned economy. In Eastern Europe people went around stealing or swapping cattle to meet quotas for example, if the Soviets could have been placated by grisly trophies there would have been millions of one-handed people east of the iron curtain.

Indians like the retards who shit in the street and dump corpses all over the city, or Native Americans?

>scalping

Of course this isn't true. This is from a fantasy land where the white race has never been responsible for any wrongdoing and any claims to the contrary are by bunkum or by ((them)).

[citation needed]

This is basic Congo Free State 101.

>the white race is a thing that exists
you know that makes you just as dumb as them, right?

Am I going to be the only one here to state the obvious?

You don't need to take hands to confirm a death, ears are way smaller, and you can still tell which side of the body it was from (don't want somebody taking two ears off of each body and then only killing half as many people)

The Mongols knew how to do this, and that was 700 years earlier. They'd come into a village that had 10,000 people with fifty warriors, tell each warrior to bring back 20 ears, and then load up cartloads of the fuckers.

This is basic shit. Ears, nigger, ears.

hands were asked for by the administration

I know, fucking retarded Belgians wasting everybodies time carrying heavy body parts.

Efficiency isn't everything. I remember reading about some tribe where the rite of passage was killing a guy from another tribe, so you had to bring back the dick with the crotch skin still attached to prove that it belonged to an adult male.

More or less speaking on their terms. Of course there is no all-encompassing "white".

Although the reason they did this in the first place was because bringing back the head would have been too much hassle so you're sort of right.

I think in Congo they used the man's kids or wifes hand

>You don't need to take hands to confirm a death, ears are way smaller
Ears do not confirm death.
You can easily cut off an ear from a living person, surviving a cut off hand is far less likely since in most cases you'll just bleed to death.

>giving guns to niggers
so it's the belgians fault?

Apparently it didn't work well enough, being that there were so many handless people wandering around whining.

Frankly, this is more a failure of field grade officers and NCOs than anything else.

Yes.

>white race doesn't exist
>but white people are evil
What did Jamal mean by this

The entire scandal could have been evaded if they asked for heads

Yeah, but when you're getting into the hundreds of thousands, that's inconvenient.

You have to do what the Mongols did, which is execute the entire squad is one person disobeys an order once.

Your men will be more reliable if they know that if a bunch of earless peasants show up, they'll all get unceremoniously killed.

It's alright. God isn't on their side.

>this is more a failure of field grade officers and NCOs than anything else.

Officers give no shit. Just get rubber and fuck the people because you are paid to get your rubber and have no restrictions on what you can do so having a throne of skulls is very possible.

"The photograph is by Alice Seeley Harris, the man’s name is Nsala. Here is part of her account (from the book “Don’t Call Me Lady: The Journey of Lady Alice Seeley Harris”): He hadn’t made his rubber quota for the day so the Belgian-appointed overseers had cut off his daughter’s hand and foot. Her name was Boali. She was five years old. Then they killed her. But they weren’t finished. Then they killed his wife too. And because that didn’t seem quite cruel enough, quite strong enough to make their case, they cannibalized both Boali and her mother. And they presented Nsala with the tokens, the leftovers from the once living body of his darling child whom he so loved. His life was destroyed. They had partially destroyed it anyway by forcing his servitude but this act finished it for him. All of this filth had occurred because one man, one man who lived thousands of miles across the sea, one man who couldn’t get rich enough, had decreed that this land was his and that these people should serve his own greed. Leopold had not given any thought to the idea that these African children, these men and women, were our fully human brothers, created equally by the same Hand that had created his own lineage of European Royalty."

>set up shitty incetive systems
>"Wow, these people sure are shit!"
good jub

Why is nobody answering the OP?

Was it Congolese, or Belgians/Europeans doing most of the hand-chopping?

The Congo free state set up the policy and the officers enforced it.

You need to read 'King Leopold's Ghost' and 'the Heart of Darkness'. They did not chop off the hands of the rubber harvesting adults for failing to meet their quota, they cut off the hands of their children, especially those too young to be productive. Legally, it was a crime to pay the Natives in cash, so this was the motivator chosen by the Europeans in charge. King leopold IIhad full knowledge.

>Belgian appointed overseers
So not actual Belgians
>killed his family because he didn't make the quota
Was that Belgian policy?
>cannibalism
That can't be blamed on the Belgians
>one man who lived thousands of miles across the sea

And just like that the entire narrative falls apart, quite simply by unconsciously admitting Leopold was far away and completely uninvolved and unaware.

If you're working at say McDonalds, and your boss kills your Mom because he doesn't like you, do you blame McDonalds?

If the Board of Directors of MacDonalds ordered him to murder my mother, yes.

The Congo cruelties are probably the single most fucked up thing white people ever did, even ahead of the Holocaust

>Take all the women of a village hostage and mass rape them
>Tell the men of the village to deliever impossible quantities of rubber
>Kill all women if quotas aren't met, which was not necessary in most cases anyways, because most women died due to miserable detention conditions
>If a village rebels, kill literally every single man, woman, and child, and burn the village down
>White officers are afraid black soldiers are hoarding bullets to form a guerilla, so demand one right hand for every bullet used.
>After 20 years, 10 million congolese people died which was around half of the population

Seriously, Nazis in Eastern Europe looked like a humanities corps compared to Belgians in Congo.

Nice reading comprehension
He literally said that he was just speaking /pol/lack while knowing that the term they use is wrong

There's some comparable shit in the Americas and Australia too, and the slave trade is really unpleasant reading - people packed so tightly that something like 20% died on the way, where the survivors could harvest sugar for a couple years before dying of malaria. Or perfidious shit like New Englanders allegedly fighting a war on behalf of the praying indians... then holding them hostage on Deer Island where 2/3rds of them dropped dead.

Not that other "races" are any better in power. Imperialism and settler-colonialism are goddamn cruel whoever's running the empire.

>The Congo cruelties are probably the single most fucked up thing white people ever did, even ahead of the Holocaust
Why do you put blame collectively on every single human who has no melanin in their skin for those atrocities? I highly doubt Swedes, Finns, Slovenians, Poles, Norwegians, Hungarians, Lithuanians etc. are responsible for them.

You're probably a yankvthough so you can't comprehend anything more complex than simple BROWN AND BLACK PEOPLE/WHITE PEOPLE dichotomy.

It's true. But the Belgians were still at fault because they gave outrageous tasks and told people to get it done or they would die.

Blaming the Congolese for the genocide in the Congo is the equivalent of blaming concentration camp """trustees""" (jews/other prisoners that were put in charge of the others when the guards weren't around) for the entire holocaust, despite them holding no real power.

This for fucks sake.

Or maybe don't demand retarded quotas so it doesn't become a problem to begin with.

The Congolese, obviously, since they're the ones who needed them for trade. But blaming the Congolese is retarded.

i love how wh*teys resort to claiming they're not all the same when it's something bad.
But for something like the Renaissance they all We Wuz

How is anybody this dense?

The Renaissance happened all across Europe.

WE

I'm in no way trying to defend the actions of the Belgians in the Congo, but surely the Congolese that were actually chopping off hands have responsibility and deserve blame? You could organize a resistance or simply refuse to cooperate with such vile practices even if it means you get killed. Chopping off the limbs of your fellow countrymen to save your own life doesn't necessarily seem justified.

They were just collaborators
Of course they share some blame. They were horrible people. But that doesn't take away from the fact that the Belgians were the hand guiding the sword. They just didn't swing it.

Natives of America

>belgians dindu nuffin
>we wuz bringerz of civilization

whoops, forgot translations

obligatory

>surely the Congolese that were actually chopping off hands have responsibility and deserve blame?

They didn't use Congolese though mostly. They used other africans from far away and some Congolese slaves.

Pick up a book all you fucking autists

Literacy is too hard

No, the Belgians would charge the Congolese for the bullets unless they had a hand as proof of constructive bullet use. So the Congolese chopped off hands because they didn't give a fuck and were wasting the bullets.

>you can still tell which side of the body it was from
user that's true of hands too

>Belgian-appointed overseers
>cannibalism
>All of this filth had occurred because one man, one man who lived thousands of miles across the sea, one man who couldn’t get rich enough, had decreed that this land was his and that these people should serve his own greed. Leopold had not given any thought to the idea that these African children, these men and women, were our fully human brothers, created equally by the same Hand that had created his own lineage of European Royalty

>nigs nig
>YT's fault!
There's no winning is there?

Holy shit that's all you can think of. Fuck, you're a dense fella

Leopold was about as much responsible for these sociopaths as Americans are responsible for General Butt Naked's shenanigans in Liberia.

Leopold knew exactly what the hell was going on and all the policies and people hired to do their jobs to extract as much as they can in the Congo Free State was under his banner. Leopold OWNED THE FUCKING PLACE.

[citation needed]

>Leopold OWNED THE FUCKING PLACE
You're right, that's why Leopold is solely responsible for everything that went down there.

>hand currency.

That's some straight Ork-tier shit right there.

>germans
>teach everything down to the flora how to goose-step.

Did the giraffes launch a pogrom on warthogs and hyeanas afterwards?