Vietnam war

Hopefully it will be accurate and not a shitty fairytale like the Roosevelts.
I don't trust Burns anymore and I've never trusted PBS.

well who the fuck else was supposed to fight the Vietnam War, the states?

The japs

Who here read/watched the Karnow version.

What do you guys think so far?

>muh rape
>muh burning villages
this is an insult to France. Ban this slander.

>Ho CHi Mihn quotes Thomas Jefferson in his first address to the Vietnamese people

>writes letters to LBJ telling him his focus is on a peaceful solution to Vietnamese independence and not war or even communism. Envokes that his struggle is no different from the founding fathers

>these letters are never given to the president

damn...

gee, I wonder who could be behind this post

>muh daddy was pistol whipped for collaborating with France
wtf this is an insult to Comrade Ho! yankee explain yourself!

The vietnam war can basically be blamed entirely on France.
1914-1981 was truly France at its lowest.

the eternal frog strikes again

the french are more often good than the brits are
have mercy, all have their regretful periods.

This is more or less true of so many of the nationalist movements in Africa and Asia. Most of them didn't give a shit about Communism, but the Communists were the only powers offering them real support.

they deserved a better fate

I don't like Burns for repeated same old historical inaccuracies (Civil War will remain his best work but I'll have to watch his non-political documentaries) but hopefully this one will help me understand this war more.

To me, thanks to the pop culture, Vietnam war after the French departure is Tonkin Bay then landing in 1965 and fights until like 1969. But what happened before or after? Probably more of the same.

I read that this one has some good interviews with North Vietnamese sources, so I have high hopes that it will provide us with more insight than other pop histories.

>But what happened before or after? Probably more of the same.

its starts by going over Ho Chi Mihns effort against the japs in WW2 and him getting help and trained by OSS and talks about how they sought independance in the immidiatly after the war ended before France could muster up their stregth to reoccupy them and how it was this situation of America choosing to side with the Vietnamese nationalist independence movement or the french, with the cold war looming in the backround.

Kind of disappointed they don't spend more time on the French period. Not really a criticism, though, I understand that it's about the American phase of the war. So far they're paying a decent amount of attention to what's happening in North Vietnam at least.

I cried. not because of what happened. But because I was born in the wrong century.

>tfw it literally ain't you

THREAD THEME

youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I

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Well I live in Canada and there is a lot of Asians here, and just seeing this first episode has me convinced that a bunch of people I know that say they are Chinese are actually Vietnamese because I have seen some dead ringers for people I know.

Not listing the interview subjects rankings is annoying.

I really hate bob dylan and his stupid voice. why do boomers like him so much?

you have to be 18 to post on this site

That PBS sonuvabitch deemed me 4-F. mau lên, I need boo-coo non-burger streamlink ASAP

What don't the Fr*nch ruin?

Story apropros of Vietnam discussion:
A couple years back, my grad class had a visiting speaker who worked the CIA Saigon station in 67. He was great, he brought a powerpoint with a bunch of photos he took while he was there, of things like his jeep and the guns he was issued.
>"This was where we lived while we were stationed in Saigon"
>flips over to a photo of a nice villa courtyard
>"I went home at the start of January '68"
>nigga got out right before Tet
>clicks on to a photo of a bedroom in the villa
>"Dave was killed in that corner, right there"
>"They dragged Carl off, he walked out of the jungle three weeks later"
>"We never found Joe"
>his face

That's number 10.

Watching it right now. At first I thought it was gonna be all anti-US stuff, but it's actually really balanced.

My history teacher was in Army Intelligence in Vietnam.

He said you could always tell who the CIA men were because they all dressed the same, and they only left their compounds in groups.

He did, however, say that they had a basketball court that they were sometimes willing to share with Army spooks.

Someone posted this in the /tv/ thread, if you want some great insight into the series it's a great read.

newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/04/ken-burns-american-canon

Yeah, this guy said much the same thing. I don't recall the specifics, but he talked about how the CIA insisted on painting their jeeps black to set themselves apart, and how stupid that was in practice.

Read somewhere that later on he gets a pair of NVA veterans to acknowledge that the North committed war crimes.

Holy shit now I'm even more excited.

>Burns’s future plans...Lyndon B. Johnson, Barack Obama
Well hopefully he'll be retired until then. I don't think I'll survive another Roosevelts.

Ho was a Marxist from early on.

I agree. But there was some interesting shit listed before that.

American Revolution, Churchill and maybe Ali.

it always boggles the mind how the eternal Frank avoids blame for Vietnam in popular discourse. They just had to have their colonies back, yet they couldn't even pull that off and fucked it up for everyone

Practically every conflict after 1914 was caused by the French feeling that they deserved something or other.

War is explicitly the federal government's responsibility, it's one of the things directly stated as to be one of its powers.

>but I'll have to watch his non-political documentaries

He WILL make you give a shit about baseball without ever watching a single game.

It wasn't his voice, even his biggest fans know he isn't a good singer. It was his lyrics.

My war literature professor was in the division that fought the Battle of Ia Drang (first engagement in the war between US and NVA), but was transferred a few weeks before deployment. He still feels guilty that he wasn't there to help.

Ho turned full Marxist only after his proposal at the Versailles Peace Conference was ignored by the western elites.

A lot of folks who evacuated at the end were ethnic chinese. They may be from vietnam, but they're not really vietnamese.
Chinese communities outside China and in Asia are sort of analogous to old european jewish communities.

One of my sociology profs was one of the few Canadian soldiers sent over as UN peacekeeping force.
I must say, he was quite out of place in a sociology department.

>Many authors have speculated that 1919 was a lost "Wilsonian moment" when the future Hồ Chí Minh could have adopted a pro-American and less radical position if only President Wilson had received him. However, the available evidence shows that at the time of the Versailles Conference he was committed to a Socialist program. While the conference was ongoing, Nguyễn Ái Quốc was already delivering speeches on the prospects of Bolshevism in Asia and was attempting to persuade French Socialists to join Vladimir Lenin's Third Communist International.

Where can I get this (non-American)?

So I get this is the "Civil War" Ken Burns and not the "Roosevelts" Ken Burns?
I'm going to watch the shit out of this once it's finished.

>surrender to the Nazis
>cry in the desert for 4 years until the Anglos give your country back to you
>they even let you March through the streets of Paris to feel like you accomplished something
>whine when your colonies are leaving
>but some criminals and rapists in uniform and send them to pacify the population
>gotta rape some Vietnamese women who probably never went more than 20 miles from home in their lives to feel strong
>their brothers and sons start guerrilla warfaring your ass even more
>stooping to literally hiring former Nazis to fight the Vietnamese for you, using American money, cause your heads are so far up your own ass.

Like hiring your abusive father to fuck a hooker for you.
Truly, is there any country more pathetic?

It's on BBC4 in the UK at least.

or I should say it will be, next week.

contender for strongest burn in history

WTF I hate France now.

entire season is already out on torrent sites

Post historical figures that did everything wrong.

Anyone have a link to a good torrent?

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