Is there a more lied-about figure in history?

>believing literally fake propaganda

>/pol/-tier infograph
wow, I believe this now, since I am easy to impress

>He's the guy who proved you can build a modern, advanced, and powerful society without capitalists.
Amtorg was especially useful for the USSR in negotiating contracts with major American companies such as Ford Motor Company, General Electric, International Harvester, Albert Kahn, Inc., Hugh L. Cooper, Arthur G. McKee, Freyn Engineering, DuPont de Nemours, Radio Corporation of America, and more than a hundred other companies during the First Five-Year Plan, taking advantage of the desperate condition of the American economy during the Great Depression.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtorg_Trading_Corporation

You realise that between 1926 and 1951 the USSR expanded considerably into Eastern Europe?

real tank hours who tf up

smash that capitalism button yo

>hated by basically all of the eastern europe that was "liberated" by russians under him

Another fake paid capitalist propaganda narrative.

Majorities in most Eastern European countries miss socialism, which appeared in Eastern Europe thanks to Stalin.

Romania:

romanianjournalist.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/survey-66-of-the-romanians-would-vote-for-ceausescu/

Hungary:

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/

Former USSR:

news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

Highest percentage isn't in Russia, but actually in Central Asian countries which were decimated after the collapse of socialism. Which proves your last point dead wrong.

If Stalin and socialism were evil, why do most Eastern Europeans prefer socialism to modern capitalist "utopia"?

>commies scream how questioning holocaust is a horrible crime
>the very next sentence they'll start explaining how holodomor never happened and how everyone who thinks otherwise is a brainlet that has never questioned capitalist propaganda and post /pol/-tier infographs (now with 100% more lies and bullshit) to prove that all those eyewitnesses, documents, physical evidence, etc. are fake

Some top tier hypocrisy you cunts have got there.

Former soviet satellite states either have corrupt governments or still run socialist command economic systems. That's why they are so miserable. The more economically liberal ones, such as Czechia, have seen huge economic development.

If communism works so well why did it fail?

What evidence? Cold War-era statistics and anecdotes from individual political prisoners?

Stalin killed many people and in the early 30s, and there was a period of famine in Kazakhstan and Ukraine. But any research into Soviet history will show you that the image built up by /pol/ and the CIA is false, and that Stalin never perpetuated any genocide or caused any permanent downturn in living conditions.

The population of the Baltic states, Bessarabia, Karelia, and Eastern Poland was a couple million max. Not enough to offset Sttalin's alleged multi-million "kill count".

The facts, documents, archives, and statistics don't support the claim that Stalin was a mass murderer. The only backing that claim has is "estimates" by paid Cold War psuedo-historians, many of whom have ties to the capitalist military-intelligence deep state (e.g. Robert Conquest, who was actually an MI6 agent).

The reason for this is because back in Gommie times you had the government pretty much guarantee you a job, in a sense you were coddled and you had everything taken care of.
But also after the collapse of Communism, many lost businesses, homes, jobs and shit. Now these folk would later have to start competing with others for a job harder, rather than having the government hand it to them.
I've seen multiple people in my hometown mentioning how they had a store, family, apartment, but lost it all after the USSR collapsed. This has more to do with the fact the USSR handed you everything, so there was less competition. My literature teacher also mentioned how if you were part of the Communist party then you had a lot of gates opened to you.
t. Baltic state citizen.

I wonder why America's economy was in desperate conditions, while the Soviet economy was massively advancing. It's almost like capitalist economies are inherently unstable and prone to crises, while socialist economies are not.

>posts propaganda
>with propaganda poster as image
how subtle

to be fair, most lefties, even most comunists, despise Stalin.

>Poll shows Czechs are "nostalgic for communism"

b92.net/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2013&mm=01&dd=31&nav_id=84442

The Holocaust (ignoring the exact number who died) is supported by facts, statistics, and archival documents, including statements from leading Nazis themselves.

All of those things are conspicuously absent regarding the alleged "crimes" of Stalin.

I also forgot to mention after the USSR collapse there was also a period where rackets (like ganster/mafia style) were common, which of course led to people feeling unsafe, hooliganism rampant and all that shit.
I'd say the old people of Ex-soviet states are sort of our baby boomers, who had everything handed to them. We call them "Homo Sovieticus" (very funny and meme tbqh)

The reason America and most western economies were in bad condition was because of the gold standard which, when the recession hit, caused deflation.

>socialist economies not prone to crises
Difficult to have "crises" when every citizen already lives in abject poverty and there is no real economic growth

There are actually recorded speeches in which Goebbeles openly talks about genociding Jews, Czechs, and Russians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_speeches

There are no speeches, documents, letters, anything at all in which Stalin or any of his lieutenants discuss genociding Ukraine through hunger. Nor is there a reason given why they would want to starve Ukrainians in the first place.

If you believe in the "Holodomor", you probably believe that Kim Jong Un watched his uncle get eaten alive by starving dogs, and kidnaps teenage girls as sex slaves. You probably believe Saddam had WMDs and was involved in 9/11. In other words, you're a fucking brainwashed retard, incapable of critically thinking

>He's the guy who proved you can build a modern, advanced, and powerful society without capitalists
t. Donetsk was founded by a Welshman
t. Dnieper damn had American Engineers working on it
t. American Relief Administration spent 20 million dollars on famine Relief in the Soviet Union in the 1920's

Capitalism has already failed. The world is plunging towards irreversible ecological catastrophe, entirely caused by capitalism. Risk of apocalyptic thermonuclear global conflict escalates daily, whether with DPRK, Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, etc. Capitalists have no solutions to any of these impending disasters.

>why is he more popular than Putin in Russia today
Because Russians can't think for themselves and need a strong leader.

>capitalism will fail any day now!
>any day now...
Well? I'm waiting you commie bastards. Also
>posting Naxalites
Ah, I see. So the solution is to hand over control to brain-dead maoists in an age when not even modern China would accept it.

I swear Veeky Forums is sometimes worse than /pol/ when it comes to circlejerking.
Stalin's deportations and ethnic cleansing are undisputedly proven by the displaced peoples that are still around to this day. And I'm not even going to enter the famous case of stalinist persecution and brutality such as the NKVD Operations, Holodomor and dekulakisation.

>every citizen already lives in abject poverty
lmao

You didn't answer my question

>The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

>Kim Jong Un watched his uncle get eaten alive by starving dogs, and kidnaps teenage girls as sex slaves
Wasn't by dogs, but he definitely bumped off his uncle. The latter point may or may not be true, his dad was into some weird shit.

>The world is plunging towards irreversible ecological catastrophe, entirely caused by capitalism.

Unlike socialism which has never caused any ecological catastrophes.

...

...

Pyongyang doesn't suck by virtue of being the seat of power and being the most visible city to tourists. How's that unfinished mega-hotel coming along?

Nope that isn't true! You're lying!

This is from a Pew survey, 2012.

How come there are no defections of South Koreans to north, but so many defections of North Koreans to south?

Before the ww2 we Czechs used to have industry comparable to France back then... We got through further industrialization but also throught expulsion of 2 milions of germans (10% of population) and suppressed innovation due to state ownership leading to slower progress than behind the iron curtain

>stalin a gud boi he dindu nuffin was going to berlin and getting his farms back on track!

It failed in some parts of the world because of revisionism and capitalist aggression against socialism. In those places (e.g. Eastern Europe) most people want socialism back. If most people in Eastern Europe hate capitalism, doesn't that mean capitalism has failed?

Cuba and DPRK are still around and stronger than ever.

...

...

Many defectors defect back to the DPRK after realizing that capitalism eats shit.

Why don't you go live there then

No one is stopping you from leaving (unlike in N Korea)

Nice propaganda you got there m8, look at this picture and notice how the North Korean soldier is tall and healthy when compared to South Korean and American soldiers who are sickly manlets because of the chronic malnutrition which is prevalent in their countries.

How do you communists explain the huge disparity in GDP between free market economies and socialist command economies?

Is GDP just a capitalist plot to undermine the integrity of the people's utopia?

Nostalgia doesnt necessarily mean preference. Mostly elderly people favor our communist party which has like 10% mostly based on the social securities the regime granted to obeying lower classes

>while socialist economies are not.
*collapses in 1991*

this is the same guy that was shilling for NK on /pol/ yesterday

Looks way better than most cities in the USA. No graffiti, no homeless, no abject poverty like in most countries.

lmfao

thats baltimore nigga

They don't accept immigrants, which is their right as a nation. Because they're not capitalist, they don't have capitalists pushing for mass immigration to drive down the cost of labor.

...

They do if you defect

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_in_North_Korea

The ecological catastrophe is caused by fast progress and population boom.. Both thinks you commies love as well as everybody else

...

you see Chung-Ho, the thing is nobody shoots you if you try to leave Baltimore...

NK false flags shit all the time to change public perception. Back in the 80's they tried to false flag a bombing to make it look like SK was too dangerous for the Olympics.

This guy was probably some agent that "escaped" and then told the press he wanted to go back.

Also looks way better than most Asian countries, which are comprador regimes in service to imperial capital.

Remember when Obama built a giant Bronze Statue of himself that every visitor to DC had to bow to before going anywhere in the city?
fucking capitalist pigs!!! ...oh wait

Damn. It's almost like the most extreme sanctions ever imposed on a country for 70 years affects their ability to conduct international trade. Really makes u think.

Poor irrigation technique = socialism now?

The problem with this comparison, and this problem occurs a lot when you all argue against communism, is that you're forced to compare the inevitabilities of capitalism with specific failures of past socialist states.

The Aral Sea was drained through unsustainable agricultural developments that made parts of Central Asia more fertile. This mistake was a single failed policy, but not a policy demanded by Marxist ideology or the Soviet economy. Moreover, it's not a policy remotely specific to socialist governments.

Wetlands and lakes are drained constantly under capitalism, to make room for new developments and increase a nation's GDP. The Netherlands drained whole sections of the North Sea to gain some more farmland, and the insatiable desires of real estate developers are destroying Everglades in South Florida as we speak.

Other, potentially more egregious forms of environmental degradation are similarly inevitable under capitalism. Because corporations and national economies must grow and compete if they wish to survive, they are compelled to find new ways of creating wealth. This is why the world's rainforests are being torn to shreds to make cosmetics and pencils and why all of our now beginning to suffer under anthrogenic climate change, a phenomenon whose causes lay squarely at the feet of oil, coal, automobile, and livestock corporations.

The worst that can be said of socialism is that its failures resemble the normal conditions of capitalism.

Yes at night it looks better... If there's no power cut

This is a completely deluded view of the situation. Dictatorship was inevitable in Indonesia and the west merely mildly supported a noncommie dictator who did most of the commie killing on his own volition.

Hmmn... then why has the Life Expectancy and GDP of Indonesia grown progressively since the 60's?

>if a new fact contradicts the narrative I'm emotionally invested in, it must be a conspiracy
lmao

There's literally nothing wrong with this.

The anons that you see here saying that stalin killed 20-60 million are from /pol/

Its been proved that he killed less than 5 million but that make him less evil than Hitler and /pol/ retards dont like that

The KGB released documentation of regicide under Stalin after the USSR fell and it's available in public Russian archives.

You could say the same about hitler and just say Holocaust was either fake or highly propagandize. Can't believe you're defending this guy he was a fucking monster

Exactly. No man in history has made the sacrifice Stalin has yet still gets demonized by blood hungry neocon capitalist scum.

My God, I knew there were some stupid people on Veeky Forums, but you've truly outdone them. Clearly someone doesn't understand how free speech works, so I'll break it down for you: there aren't any pictures of bad things in North Korea, because there isn't enough advanced technology (i.e. people don't have smartphones) and the government would shoot anyone telling the truth. In South Korea, there are pictures of bad conditions, because it isn't the 1984-tier nightmare dystopia of its neighbor.

The irony here is that shitty artists like that lean towards being socialists

>socialism is that its failures resemble the normal conditions of capitalism.

Because that "socialism" is just state capitalism

That isn't true. Cubans, Vietnamese, and even fucking North Koreans do not all live in abject poverty. In fact, all available economic data from external observation shows a generally higher quality of life than most of Asia or, in the case of Cuba, Latin America.

These people are poor because they live in the third world, but in third world capitalist states people rarely fare any better. Historically, socialist third world governments have a much better track record at developing their economies than their capitalist counterparts.

Holocaust have sources, where are the sources that stalin killed 20 million of people?

I will wait, you can even make a h
thread

>DPRK art, on the other hand, promotes patriotism, higher values, and communal cooperation.

So like fascist art, right?

The CIA installed Suharto, who overthrew the elected government of Sukarno. They supplied him with lists of Communists to find and execute. Even the NYT admits this:

nytimes.com/1990/07/12/world/cia-tie-asserted-in-indonesia-purge.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=3

If Communism had won in Indonesia, there wouldn't be any slums like in that picture (just like there aren't in any socialist country), because the government would finally start serving the people instead of foreign capital.

Yeah I'm inclined to agree with you, but didn't think it was appropriate or necessary to go into the inherently capitalist nature of the USSR in that post.

If he posts anything it will be Cold War era material by Conquest, Pipes, or Malia that's since been refuted.

Or maybe Solzhenitsyn lmao

what this nigga said. Socialism won't magically change everyone to environmentalists. They can still ruin the environment. And if they do it will not be due to the profit motive unlike under captialism

>Stalin has yet still gets demonized by blood hungry neocon capitalist scum.

You don't need to be a capitalist to hate that brute opportunist.

Showing pyongyang and comparing it to SK slums doesn't do anything to compare average liviing conditions.
NK: 25m people
SK: 51m people

There wouldn't be any slums but only in the photo

this one hit me right in the feels.... RIP Eternal Comrade.... You will never be forgotten.

The whole world would've been red by now if we had Trotsky instead.

Why are commiecucks so retarded? You would have been executed or taken to the gulag because you are not one of them.

hmmn...
Freedom of Expression vs State Obligated Propaganda

F

Th..thanks for all the economic development communism! And while we got all that great economic development, at least we could express ourselves freely and criticize the government!

Probably not. He was fucking awful, but at least he didn't kill 60 million people and sent Soviet soldiers to fight Nazis without rifles.

Why would you be not one of them if you are raised in socialist environment and taught to love motherland and do your best to get it into bright future of communism?

The Soviet union would rather collapse much earlier, Stalin promoted the socialism in one country thing because he knew he couldn't face the rest of the world. There were no noble principles behind it, under better circumstances he would probably adopt those Trotsky world conquest aspirations

But no capitalist countries with North Korea's gdp make good movies either.

Soviet cinema was good as hell, and while filmmakers definitely ran into government censorship pretty often, directors and screenwriters didn't have to appeal to the lowest common denominator for their films to get made. All Soviet films were not-for-profit ventures.