How could socialism and ultimately communism possibly work when a majority of the proletariat are perfectly content...

How could socialism and ultimately communism possibly work when a majority of the proletariat are perfectly content living under capitalism? Not only that, but a huge portion of the working class are the very people the left fights against. Are there ANY examples of communism working at any point in history, and even if so, is it possible in todays age of identity politics? I'm anti-capitalist but I really can't wrap my head around communism, doesn't sit well with me.

Also, I've spent time with communists and I've noticed a pattern that they're typically millennials, deadbeats, borderline /b/tards, and the furthest thing from what the bourgeoisie fear. I have more respect for anarchists than communists desu.


Posted here rather than /pol/, for obvious reasons.

The idea is that the revolution kills so many people and destroys everything to an extent that ANYTHING resembling a societal structure is seen as an improvement, even something as ass backwards as communism

Communism, or at least "endgame" communism, is practically the antithesis of individualism, which as a philosophy has exploded globally and continues to grow throughout the world as available education and other factors expand.

The unique paradox that is modern socialism is that the very values made popular by individualism and championed by individualists (protection of individual rights, pro-choice, merit-based professionalism, etc.) are being viewed by socialists as a monolithic set of values and anyone who will be part of the new world order would be expected to give up their individualism for this particular set of moral values - again - made possible by people that would not be tolerated under strict socialism.

It ultimately comes down to the fact that communism is expected to protect the working class from tyrants, but the current Western style of government itself provides so many protections for those same workers.
The way communists "fight" the working class is berate them for "not knowing what's good for them" and "not letting us help you" despite these same people often being likely to under-value the worth of manual labor and trades to even less than the free market has set, instead valuing - surprise - Party positions and allies of the party (journalism, government, middlemen) higher.

The Communist political class are always completely isolated from the working class, even when they claim to be championing them.

Something that always stuck out for me was Mao's idea to increase steel production by building a furnace in every Chinese backyard, forcing people under pain of imprisonment to melt down their farming tools and use their firewood and commercial lumber for fuel.

It took Mao a year after this policy had been implemented to ask someone involved in steel production if it would work. When he was told that it wouldn't, the policy was continued for another year because he felt embarrassed and didn't want to admit failure.

Anyone involved in steel production could've told Mao that the backyard furnaces were only ever going to produce totally useless lumps of pig iron. All he had to do was ask a factory worker, miner, or smith about steel production, but he considered himself above it.

People always meme about the attempted sparrow genocide because of how ridiculous it is but the backyard furnaces always struck me as somehow being more clueless. Mao's entire movement was based on a veneration of the peasantry, but before implementing a policy that hinged on basic knowledge any thousands of peasant labourers could've told him, and despite being of a peasant background himself, he never even bothered to speak to one.

Well from my conversations with them their point that they're willing to throw away any conversation over is the defense of unlimited immigration from the third world, which threatens worker wages, unions and communal harmony.

So I think they are impotent insane larping retards who should kill themselves, but instead of suicide they just take estrogen pills.

If capitalism is seen to provide for people who work and less for people who don't.

This is not how capitalism actually works.

how can anyone unironically call themselves a Maoist. I don't fucking understand.

I'm pretty sure most workers weren't "perfectly content living under capitalism" when they worked 14 hours per day or when the average worker in manchester died in their 20s.

The steel production thing really is the ultimate autism. It's a strong contender for "worst idea to actually get implemented by a government." People latch onto the sparrow thing because people just naturally like birds and going out of your way to exterminate them just seems like the most pointlessly cruel thing that a person could ever do.

getting them to destroy their farm tools and kill pest eating sparrows was part of his ploy to cow the populace with starvation

i am talking about NOW. Today. The overwhelming majority of the working class is just fine with how things are. They may not be happy, but they fully accept this is the way things are, and "it could be worse". They don't want anything to do with communism or even socialism. So how can the dictatorship of the proletariat exist if the proletariat don't want to do it?

I hate most birds though.

It can't, which is why there very few relevant communist movements left in the world.

fuck birds

it's just their impotent larping, they'll never achieve it
time and time again they always fall back in line under the command of liberals who consolidate the power of conglomerates and the state that protects them

If you like communist shenanigans, take a look of this.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your example is total shit. That decision could've easily been made by a factory worker because it's a simple example of astounding stupidity, of which Mao had a lot of.

Because communism is the most bourgeois ideology in existence. A bunch of middle class "intellectuals" and spoiled university students think they know what's good for everyone.
Working class just wants to work for a good wage and raise a family and basically be left alone, not suffer under a failed leftist dictatorship waiting for a utopia that will never come.
Seriously, look at Weimar Germany. Those street brawls between Brownshirts and communists? It was basically a bunch of pissed off, jobless young men fighting with a bunch of middle class uni students. Deeply pathetic.

the sparrow thing is also mocked because they put sparows as one of the 4 greatest pests in China, next to malarial mosquitoes, plague spreading rats, and flies

one of these things is not like the other

Liberal democracy with a social safety net pretty much BTFO comunisim. Its why you see a lot 'accelerationists' these days, who believe the only way to improve the lives of the working class is to make it as miserable as possible so they start a revolution. So they're against things like welfare, medicaid, social security - you know, things that actually help the people they're trying to "help".

Talk about pure ideology.

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>Liberal democracy with a social safety net pretty much BTFO comunisim

Pretty much this. Another often overlooked fact is that the Catholic church helped de-fang a lot of communist movements through simple charity, as well as an increasing focus on delivering a universalist message.

yeah, it turns out that all you need to do to make communism unappealing is get rid of feudalism and make capitalism not literal slavery for the working class

Cause he was really fucking good at leading a revolution. Better than anybody else in history probably.

Shame he didn't step down as soon as the communists had taken power.

So then your problem is not with communism or socialism but instead the bourgeois nature of 20th century socialist states.

You aren't an anticommunist after all. You're a leftcom!

If workers were fine with the way things are, why did tens of millions of workers vote for Bernie and Brexit and Corbyn and Trump?

>They may not be happy, but they fully accept this is the way things are, and "it could be worse"
You could apply the same argument for Meso-American cultures that revolved around ritualistic mass-murder. Millions of people 'were content' to live under this system until the Spaniards provided the impetus for an insurrection.

The present system, in some ways similar to those bloody mesoamerican societies and many other dominate societies of their time, employs its asymmetrical power and resources to perpetuate itself. While the naked abuse of power isn't as common as it was in the 19th & 20th century with anti-union violence, Modern market capitalism has borrowed heavily from socialistic playbooks in the form of labor laws & social-safety nets to the same ends of maintain the existing power structure.

The existence of a dominant system isn't necessarily evidence of its equity or superiority, but of its ability to effectively monopolize & wield power.

>claim you advocate for the interests of the working class
>be bourgeois
>have a load of anti-nature insane bourgeois perversions in your life you want to force onto everyone into accepting or adopting
>create an entire ideological canon justifying this and basing it in defunct, retrograde 19th century social environmentalist theories - claim evolutionary instincts and entities are 'social constructs' and you should shove a buttplug up your ass and chug estrogen instead
>get butthurt when the working class supports fascists/nationalists because they promise the economic policies they want without the insane asylum of Marxist bourgie rich kid's first polygamy/cuck experiment and racial self-hatred

Always gets the noggin joggin.

Unironically good post

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Nobody on the planet has said men should take estrogen pills you dumb shit

You're so far up your own ass you're guzzling stomach acid

This gets my big commie dick hard! Like a damn red rock!

> How could socialism and ultimately communism possibly work when a majority of the proletariat are perfectly content living under capitalism?

How the fuck did we ever historically change modes of production and change how we structure and organize our society? Jeez I'd like to know. How ever did we get to sweet, glorious capitalism? not like liberalism exists mai boi. I too am still supportive of feudalism, not one person beyond the 18th century has ever actually been supportive of capitalism btw.

> Are there ANY examples of communism working at any point in history, and even if so, is it possible in todays age of identity politics?

Like, well, socialism? There's Catalonia/revolutionary Spain, there's the ELZN in Chiapas today, there's the Kurds in Rojava (more statist than anarchist, actually, but large parts of their economy are worker run / democratically run with the community)

Do you mean something like one of the pro-state / Leninist varieties? I mean, Cuba is doing pretty good all things considered, and they have been, since their inception, democratizing their workplace more and more and more, especially when it comes to involving the community, etc.

The welfare state is already collapsing just as predicted anyway, 'accelerationists' just don't want to go through the struggle to build back the welfare state that has already collapsed and build something back from ashes. You seem to think Accelertionists wanted Trump/Le Pen to be in power, but they only preferred them to Hillary or Macron for the above reason.

How can communism provide a standard of living that's not dreary and restrictive as fuck?

You will get what you need to survive and some education and stuff, if you want that. But no, resources and acquisition are not there to give you trivial meaning in your life, only to support it.
Folks go on about how awful/emotionally taxing the rat race is when those same people derive meaning from (((upward mobility))) and material things.