Holy fuck, how could one man be so incompetent?

They were much closer to stale mating imo, the blockade really caused them grief.

>dismiss Bismarck even though he's the reason you're sitting on the throne in the first place

that one was justified, Bismarck is overated + he was already a relic in new German westpolitik

hereditary monarchy is kind of a crapshoot, they aren't all gonna be Henry V

A better question is how the Germanic had the foresight to support Bismarck in the first place.

They were never close to winning.
>muh paris falls instant capitulation meme
France wasn't in the same situation in WWI as they were in WWII.
Also
>implying italy would ever fight the french along with the austrians
What a fucking joke, in the wars of unification the italians proved they'd work with the french to fuck the austrians even if it meant territorial concessions. The triple alliance was even more of a joke alliance than the holy alliance.

>start building a navy just to piss off the British

He admired Britain and especially Britain's navy. Creating the High Seas Fleet was an act of flattering imitation, not malice.

We are in the bad timeline.

Why he chose Austria

>Germany, please don't build any more ships as you're starting to threaten our home security with your fleet
>lol, don't get mad Britain, I'm just using it as a deterrent against Japanese

Germany did in fact have colonies in East Asia and Japan's growing power was a legitimate concern for the Kaiser.

>Nicky attack Japan, the white race is depending on you

Except oh wait, it turns out that the British fleet actually was a exstistential threat to the Germans and the building of a fleet was entirely justified.

Britain couldn't give two shits about Germany and was full isolationist, content with her empire until Willy chimped out that he needed his place under the sun too

Intredasting. Just one thing though. Why were they so eager to invade France to the point of marching through Belgium and dragging Britain into the war? Why did the Kaiser order sbumarines to target American civilian shipping? They'd only need to blitz Russia and their supremacy would be secure.

If they avoided pissing anyone else off it would just look like France sperging out because it doesn't get to play Napoleon anymore.

Willy's /pol/-tier arguments are easy to mock in retrospect, but all he was trying to do was protect German holdings in East Asia.

>ywn live in a world where the 2nd Reich endured well into the 20th Century

All that work, for nothing and to add insult to injury, most people shit on Germany for the 3rd Reich or, even worse, suck and gargle on the 3rd Reich's dick even though the 2nd Reich was better in every way.

>Because it was divided until 1871 Germany came to the Imperialism game last of the great powers which not only meant all the easy gains were taken but that all the traditional powers were wary of Germany muscling in on their business. This is why Germany had to play such a careful diplomatic game to prevent the old powers from unifying against them.

This old canard. The old imperial powers were perfectly happy to let Germany share in the colonial spoils. When did any other power oppose German colonial expansion? What major imperial disputes did Germany have with Britain, France or Russia? The answer is none. There were way more arguments between Britain and France or Russia over colonies than with Germany. The only thing is Morocco, but Germany didn't actually give a flying fuck about it, they were just using it as a way to test the Entente Cordiale.

This is just the BS encirclement argument the Krauts made at the time, and which later on socialists swallowed hook, line and sinker because they liked the idea of imperialism being responsible for the war, when really the causes were purely European and had little to nothing to do with colonialism.

>Being entirely at the mercy of another country is an acceptable state of affairs as long as they're not angry at you at the moment

Well jeez, I guess Wilhelm should have just accepted being entirely subservient to British foreign policy

Germany was the strongest industrial and economic power in Continental Europe and would still be that way if they realized that they were too late for the colonial game and the world's already been divided.

You're stupid.

Wilhelm II took the role of "bad cop" in diplomatic strategy developed by German school of geopolitics.
The "German problem" was that:
>French wanted revenge at some point
>Russians were expansionist as fuck
>British weren't happy with formation of Germany shaking the balance of power on the continent.

Basically at some point, Germany would have to fight those countries. At the same time, Russian Empire was becoming economic giant and increasing its ability to mobilize troops quickly. Analytics predicted that by 1914 Russia would get to the point where it can overpower Germany(revised to 1917 after 1905) no matter of German advantage in quality(Brusilov offensive being an example of what would be the norm on the Eastern Front had Russia have time to prepare).

During Moroccan crisis, everybody, including Italy(formal German ally) got pissed at them as such they assumed that they won't be able to win the war at this point of time and waited for better occasion to fight, it just happened that in 1914 there was the perfect time to do it. However, Willy was blamed for Moroccan crisis(and most other "aggressive behavior" of German diplomacy) to make him the bad cop that the good cop(government) could pull out of troubles. The faster they could pull off a war in good conditions(Italy at least neutral, no US involvement, no British troops on the mainland on day 0 of the war) the easier it would be to win it.

Blitzing Russia would immediately entail the fast-mobilizing France ramming your unprotected asshole because you sent the bulk of your troops east. Blitzing France while the slow cumbersome Russia readies for war, while unachievable in hindsight, was much more plausible. Going through Belgium was simply a flanking maneuver, ensuring that they'd attack where the French least expected them. They knew this would bring Britain into the war, but that was deemed acceptable if France ended up broken.

Put aside the colonies. As the Great War proved, if Germany ended up in a dispute with Britain for any reason, they would be completely at the mercy of the Royal Navy. And given that Britain's foreign policy was built around checking a continental power, coupled with their vested interest in Russia being drawn into conflicts in Europe, war between the two was inevitable

I was also thinking about the submarine warfare recentrly.
Are there any sources of British secret services laying out breadcrups to the Imperial Marine, that there are weapons transported in civil vessels?
This could have been a tactic to actively drag the USA into the war and would fit nicely to some of the inconsistencies of the Lousitania incident.

So basically, what you saying is that Germany was isolated and needed to win a war to break the isolation.
But it became isolated in the first place because of Willys retarded policy, "Politik der freien Hand"

Willy was a retard, like Trump today.
There was no deeper strategy, no hidden meaning, he was simply incapable

Wow, such insightful historical view points, coupled with in-depth contemporary commentary! Thanks for improving the quality of this board! In the future of recommend posting comments like that on Reddit, I'm sure they'll appreciate them.

>But it became isolated in the first place because of Willys retarded policy
it wasn't solely Willys fault, but he did exacerabate Germany's diplomatic isolation.

>You English are mad, mad, mad as March hares. What has come over you that you are so completely given over to suspicions quite unworthy of a great nation?
Willy was literally Trump, unable to control his emotions and alienating allies.

Constantly underestimating the man is the reason he's currently sleeping in the White House with billions of dollars while you're posting on a angolan fly-swatting forum.

I'll never understand why it's so hard to believe that the reality tv-star who made a living in the cutthroat world of NYC real estate who took on a dynastic presidential candidate with a billion-dollar campaign and the backing of most major media corporations and won MIGHT JUST be smarter than you.

Don't go offtopic.
Please explain how the Daily Mail Affair was part of Willys elaborate "bad cop" strategy

>anything pro-white is /pol/

>Make shitty analogy to a controversial modern figure
>Get called on inserting shitty political opinion into a thread that didn't merit it
>Hey, don't go off topic!

Why do people keep pinning German and Russian relations falling apart on Germany, or even Russia, but not Austria? Why the fuck could Austrians just not stay away from Bosnia? They got a grand total of fuck all from annexing that place anyway, and spent a considerable amount of resources just to modernize it and prevent it from revolting.

So we agree that Willy sucked at diplomacy?

It is partially the Austrians fault, but Germany was still screwing over Russia. Bismark was the one that called the Congress of Berlin which shat all over Russia and their gains during the Russo-Turkish War, and Bismark was the one that constantly sided with Austria in disputes between the three emperors.

no but his belief in some great white destiny against barbarous yellow hordes kinda reeks of /pol/ wouldn't you say

Willy is literally /ourguy/

Austrians went into Bosnia mostly to prevent it being taken by Serbia (which was coming the moment Ottomans retreated from it). There were a lot of Serbs living in AH, and it was feared in Vienna that a stronger Serbia would try to take those areas from them. Which, you know, it ultimately did.

What you call /pol/ was pretty much the mindset of every white person before WW2, and especially before WW1.

>There were a lot of Serbs living in AH
Yeah, IN BOSNIA.

Also Vojvodina, Slavonia, Dalmatia etc.

But yes, the drawbacks of AH's plans are amazingly obvious.

>strong AF economy.
>advanced military
>excellent economy that could challenge the britbongian one.
It was a first rate power

>Vojvodina
Vojvodina was beyond mixed, even far more than it is now. 35% Serbian at max and there was almost as many Hungarians as there were Serbs, same goes for Germans.
>Slavonia, Dalmatia
Oh so now we're getting into the "Vienna itself would be engulfed by Serbian revolts because there was a Serb living somewhere in Vienna" territory.

>Why did the Kaiser order sbumarines to target American civilian shipping?
because they were carrying military supplies to the british and were legitimate targets of war?

I wasn't suggesting Serbs were majority in those areas, merely that there were a lot of them there, and that Serbia would seek to expand in that direction, if given a chance.

Although Serbs in Vojvodina did already declare independence once, in 1848.

Business idea: German-Russian alliance

Thoughts?

Being a second rate power is better than being a complete shitshow on the brink of civil war for a decade.
Germany was already stronger than France, second only to Britain really.

>Colonial powers
>Perfectly happy to share
LOL

> Why were they so eager to invade France to the point of marching through Belgium and dragging Britain into the war?

Because the whole plan hinged on being able to knock France out of the war whilst Russia was mobilising. If they diverted the bulk of their forces to the east they would be leaving themselves to the more threatening French Army.

>They'd only need to blitz Russia and their supremacy would be secure.

Wrong war, Russia's shitty infastructure goes both ways, just as it was hard for them to invade so to was it hard for them to be invaded. Remember the whole thing hinged on speed, and it was not expected that the Russian Army would do so poorly during the war. If they tired that there was a real and perceived risk of getting bogged down and suffering the fate of Napoleon.

>Why did the Kaiser order sbumarines to target American civilian shipping?

They didnt the Lusitania was a British ship which was carrying very large amounts of ammunition, indeed the German Embassy in the US even went so far as to place ads in newspapers telling people not to go.

Adding to this most of the civilian ships targeted were carrying supplies not people and that the issue was further muddied by the fact that the British designed warships that camouflaged as civilian ships to destroy submarines that acted according to the rules of warfare.

Just ask yourself do you think the British Blockade of Germany would allow neutral civilian shipping to supply Germany with weapons and supplies?

> What major imperial disputes did Germany have with Britain, France or Russia? The answer is none..... except Morocco but Germany didn't actually give a flying fuck about it

Come now you are doing the classic "1+1 cant be answered and dont give me any of this 2 nonsense because that doesn't count"

In 1905 Germany went there to literally establish a protectorate. It was of crucial importance, and how it would finally come to a close in 1911 showed how hostile the international community would be to German expansion or intervention in foreign affairs.

>Germany sought a multilateral conference where the French could be called to account before other European powers. The French foreign minister, Théophile Delcassé, took a defiant line, holding that there was no need for such a conference. Count Bernhard von Bülow, the German Chancellor, threatened war over the issue.[2][3] The crisis peaked in mid-June. The French cancelled all military leave (June 15) and Germany threatened to sign a defensive alliance with the Sultan (June 22). French Premier Maurice Rouvier refused to risk war with Germany over the issue. Delcassé resigned, as the French government would no longer support his policy. On July 1, France agreed to attend the conference.

>The Algeciras Conference was called to settle the dispute, lasting from January 16 to April 7, 1906. Of the 13 nations present, the German representatives found that their only supporter was Austria-Hungary. A German attempt at compromise was rejected by all but Austria-Hungary. France had firm support from Britain, Russia, Italy, Spain, and the United States

allieboos are getting KAISER'D badly ITT

>So basically, what you saying is that Germany was isolated and needed to win a war to break the isolation. But it became isolated in the first place because of Willys retarded policy,

No see

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Telegraph_Affair

>When you have an interview and use it to sound cool and increase your credibility but end up fucking yourself so hard that no one takes you seriously anymore

lol

Did say they were only that they would become one.

The contrast in the quality of those posts is hilarious

I think both are shit.

Of course you do

Yeah. One is uneducated and shallow and the other is just a shitpost.

This means you have some serious cognitive deficiencies and no sense of proportion. the first post obviously has a lot more effort put into it.
Can you tell the difference between a glass of water and a pool?

The fact you think the non-Trump post was something profound is pretty telling about you.

Centrists, everyone.

This happened in the 1870s and again in the 1880s but was ruined both times by Hungarian autism.

You also can't read,Because I didnt
I said that
>the first post obviously has a lot more effort put into it.
But you can't even comprehend the difference between form and substance

Generally, most of these actions were not Wilhelm's own ideas but of his advisors, the military leadership and the top-ranking officials. Usually, there were more or less sound reasons for these controversial decisions, while they may have been wrong in hindsight, they are not just the result of an inexplicable madness of Willy as you seem to think.

E.g.

>>antagonize Russia in favor of the sick joke of an empire that is Austro-Hungary

This started under Bismarck, look up the trade war between Russia and Germany as well as the closure of the German capital market for Russian loans. In the end, Russia placed huge loans on the French capital market, leading to a dependency and rapprochement between the two countries. In 1889, France sent 500k rifles to Russia. After Bismarck was gone, Wilhelm was initially in favor of renewing the reassurance treaty with Russia; Fritz v. Holstein, most influencal man in German forency, and the new chancellor Caprivi convinced him to not renew the treaty. Simply said, they thought it would be practically useless in case of an emergency due to the new rapprochement between France and Russia as well as general nationalistic and pan-slavistic tendencies within Russia. They also thought the treaty could possibly hinder an Anglo-German alliance and undermine the relations with Austria.

>>start random shit for no reason in Morocco to piss off the French and antagonize the rest of Europe

Morocco's independence was guaranteed by treaty and the French occupied Morocco in spite of it. It's a bit unfair to claim that Willy started "random shit for no reason".

And a hard shit takes more effort to push out than a runny diarrhea but in the end they're both shit.
Brainlets, everyone.

Fucking congratulations, it only took you one hour and several posts for you to understand that. Did you get your daily false sense of superiority dose, brainlet?

To my credit, at least I'm not American.

Meus parabéns....?

oтхyeй cвинья

>start building a navy just to piss off the British

A sizeable navy would have also been advantageous in a conflict against just Russia and France. Though the initial plan was also to built a fleet that was smaller than the British one but large enough to make it risky for the British fleet to be at war with Germany (admiral Tirpitz' concept of the 'risk fleet'). In the end, Germany abandoned the naval arms race and the High Seas Fleet did not become large enough to be a deterrent for Britain as envisaged by Tirpitz. It still was somewhat useful in engaging Russia in WWI and in securing the coastal waters of Germany.

Ironically, a larger German fleet would have likely better for Anglo-German relations since Britain would have been more or less forced to appease Germany. Same thing happened with the US and - not in the naval department though - with Russia: the British saw no other way to deal with the Russian threat in Central/South Asia than becoming their friends.

>>do everything in your power to start a war by supporting Austro-Hungary in July Crisis (without Germany's support, Austria-Hungary wouldn't do shit)

It is known that Wilhelm, after hearing the Serbian response to the ultimatum, proposed his "halt in Belgrade" idea, i.e. Austria should only temporarily occupy Belgrade to save face and that "every cause for war has vanished". This strategy was sabotaged by chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg, who wanted a localized war between Austria and Serbia, knowing the risk of an escalation into a world war.

>>invade Belgium, bringing Britain to side with Entente, making the war 2x times more harder than it already is when you're fighting on two fronts because of the Naval Blockade

Yeah, the assumption between the Schlieffen plan was that Germany would not be able to fight a two front war and that sucker punching France was more or less the only way to survive. It was a rather pessimistic assumption, since the course of WWI shows that Germany was able to hold out very long and might have been able to win in the end against just France and Russia. However, it is not sure that Britain would not have joined the war. Edward Grey, upon request of the German ambassador, was not prepared to guarantee British non-interference in case the Germans do respect Belgian neutrality.

I think you forgot one of the worst decision under Wilhelm's reign, namely unrestriced submarine warfare. The strategic cost was immense, meanwhile there very little gain as Wilson was willing to accept a limited submarine warfare.

Reading about the Daily Telegraph Affair is just embarrassing, total case of ' fremdschamen'

>we will never live in a world where Germany and the UK take on the world together and win

Why even live?

Its enough to make trump look clever

>What you call /pol/ was pretty much the mindset of every white person before WW2, and especially before WW1.
And now it's rare to find that kind of mindset in places that aren't /pol/ or /pol/-lite.

>>antagonize Russia in favor of the sick joke of an empire that is Austro-Hungary
But that was Bismarck

How the unification of Germany failed.

Austria was excluded on purpose by Bismarck so they could not hold sway over internal German politics over Prussia.

There's a reason the flag of Imperial Germany is Red White Black for Hansa+Prussia, and doesn't include the Austrian Gold.

>Aristotle, that /pol/ tier slave?

Maybe history is not for you

bump

>Morocco's independence was guaranteed by treaty
Europeans didn't really care about niceties in dealing with non-European nations. Willy thought similarly when he exploited the death of two Catholic priests to annex Shantung in China.
> Morocco
Morocco was already a French dependency at this point and was a logical extension of its colonial empire in Africa