I don't want any communists and red-pill conservatives in this thread because I want unbiased opinions:
What are things that Communist Vietnam did that were MORALLY bad?
I don't care about whether their economy sucks or whatever- someone just told me they literally "did nothing wrong".
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They ethnically cleansed their country of their ethnic Chinese population.
Usage of illegal combatants in war.
Invaded Cambodia, Americas ally.
Throwing tens of millions of people in death camps certainly counts. Invading Cambodia does too.
Reeducation Camps.
Niggers forget they actually propelled the Khmer Rouge to power.
Prisoner Torture.
Oh and part of the reason why the Vietcong were told to participate in the Tet Offensive was because the NV suspected the loyalty/political stances of the Southern Communists and thought "wouldn't it be nice if many of the southern communists got killed in a big offensive or something?"
Some of the Vietcong who were considered more nationalist than communist were also CAMPED.
They were bad but not Stalin or Mao levels of Bad, we probably could of left them alone and it wouldnt be that bad because unlike the USSR or China the majority of the populace wanted Communism anyway, so we could have peaced out and let them live in their shithole.
They avoided a lot of the mass killings that so often occurred under communist governments and Ho Chi Minh was a legitimately good leader who sought what he thought best for his country and they should be commended for their victory over the South, America, France, Cambodia and China.
>invading Cambodia
>morally wrong
Pick one
The supreme irony of this is North Vietnam is the most CHINKED of all Vietnamese populations.
Genociding Montagnards and other minorities, Hue massacre, forcing local villages at gunpoint to store weapons and ammo which in turn resulted in American forces thinking the villagers were supporting the VC.
They killed hundreds of thousands of people with forced collectivization and reeducation campaigns.
It's ironic, the US paid for land reform in South Vietnam, and bought all the peasants their own land to farm on, and then the communists came and stole it back. It's the exact opposite of what happened in the North.
Also, they flatlined the countries economy until the early 90s.
The Invasion of Cambodia was totally justified though.
If the US gave Vietnam support in their independence they wouldn't have turned to the Soviets and Chinese for support. Honestly America not supporting them is probably what redpilled them to support anti-imperialist communism.
They ignored more moderate factions calling for a diplomatic resolution and instead opted for war since the USSR/ china pressured them as to dump surplus equipment resulting in deaths of over a million soldiers and civilians
How is dooming people to Africa-tier poverty not bad? Anyway:
From 1975 to 1995, 900,000 Vietnamese refugees fled to America, mostly in the first few years. This represents approximately five percent of South Vietnam's total population (estimated at 19 million in 1975), fleeing Communist rule. Add up the number of refugees to other Western countries, roughly 500,000 and that means seven percent successfully fled to a Western nation after the fall of South Vietnam. Adding China to the total (mostly for Hoa refugees) jacks the figure up to 1.64 million refugees.
This does not include the hundreds of thousands who died in their attempts to flee (possibly more than 700,000, and at least 300,000 per the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees's study on the boat people; Rummel estimates 500,000). Nor does it include those who fled to Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines etc or were sweltering in refugee camps in those countries before being turned back. Nor does it include the 200,000 who were killed immediately after the war. Nor does it include the million who were sent to reeducation camps/labor camps in the aftermath of the war. 50,000 of them died too, by the way.
Then we have the defeat of the South Vietnamese being immediately followed by the displacement of millions and persecution of minorities in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. Montagnards, Hmong, Tay, ethnic Chinese and Cambodians, Vietnamese of mixed birth or other non-ethnic minorities such as Buddhist monks, Catholics, Hoa Hao Buddhist sect, etc. all got screwed pretty hard in the aftermath. Mass ethnic cleansing bordering on genocide. China even invaded over Vietnam's treatment of its Chinese minorities.
Then there are crimes during the war itself. Some 500,000 to 600,000 South Vietnamese civilians died during the war. According to Rummel, between 131,000 and 304,000 of these were victims of democide on part of the NVA or VC. The Hue massacre is a famous example.
Overall, Soviet-tier.
>en.wikipedia.org
>The Khmer Rouge (/kəˈmɛər ˈruːʒ/, French: [kmɛʁ ʁuʒ], "Red Khmers"; Khmer: ខ្មែរក្រហម Khmer Kror-Horm) was the name given to the followers of the Communist Party of Kampuchea in Cambodia. It was formed in 1968 as an offshoot of the Vietnam People's Army from North Vietnam, and allied with North Vietnam, the Viet Cong, and the Pathet Lao during the Vietnam War against the anti-communist forces from 1968 to 1975
"Hey guys, we removed the government that has been genociding you! The same goverment that, by the way, we supported earlier which toppled your monarchy. Sorry!"
There's a reason why Cambodia still hates Vietnam even if Vietnam's *second* invasion stopped toppled the Khmer Rouge.
They pretty much ruined Laos forever.
>Invading Cambodia does too.
Out of all the things they did, this was the only one that wasn't shit. Cambodia invaded first. Vietnam was supremely patient in not just smashing them immediately, but waiting until the Cambodians got especially egregious.
>Commie Chinese help Viet minh
>Viet minh turn their backs on Chinese and they become enemies during Sino Soviet Split
>Vietnam invades Cambodia help set up Khmer Rouge
>Khmer Rouge turn their back on the Vietnamese and they become enemies during the Sino Soviet Split
Why are communist politics so ridiculous?
Me want to love them long time
Kek never mind.
>tfw The Vietnamese are literally the Chinese of SEAsia in politics, culture, language and lulzy communist shenanigans in promoting Communism in SEAsia
2017 Vietnam? not much, the Doi Moi reforms went a long way in reforming the government and economy to where they are a functioning member of the world community, not up to western standards of personal liberty, but definitely not some international pariah with some laundry list of human rights abuses.
North Vietnam and the first 10 years of a united Vietnam were pretty brutal, especially during the the course of the war. Mass executions of civilians in occupied cities, hundreds of thousands sent to reeducation and labor camps, causing a mass exodus of people fleeing after the war. Not as batshit crazy as Pol Pot's Cambodia, but Vietnam's consolidation of power during and after the war wasn't a stroll in the park.
Really, Vietnam just follows a trend that most, if not all, revolutionary governments follow. Starting with a brutal consolidation of power and silencing of opposition for 10-30 years, and once the new government feels secure in stamping out said opposition, then society loosens up and starts participating in the world community. Vietnam's case was about 15 years of silencing opposition and consolidating control, then economic and social reforms were implemented once the Communist Party felt secure with no direct challenge to their authority.
Still something to be said though, any direct opposition to the ruling party and you still land in prison, but that's pretty par for the course in Southeast Asia generally.
Today they pretty much have a more free society than Thailand and Myanmar, but definitley not as open as the Philippines or Singapore.
>rfa.org
>RFA
>Activism
2/10
Ackshully Cambodia's grievances against Vietnam predate the Khmer Rouge support.
Usually around the 1400s when the Viets invaded the Khmer Empire's western borders. Alongside the Ayyuthaya invasion, Thais and Viets jumpstarted the Cambodian dark ages.
>*Eastern Borders
Its almost like they were just a bunch of nationalists who chose the side that didn't include their former imperialist oppressor and in the end wanted independance.
Every time someone brings up "Viet Commies are just Nationalists who want to trabble" I will bring these up.