At what point did the Byzantine Empire cease to be the most powerful economic, cultural, and military force in Europe...

Around the time of Charlemagne

Probably some time in the 8th century, when they lost the (then) wealthy Balkans and lost their claim of being overlord of the Slavs.

Manzikert is where it all starts going down. Prior to that the empire was the wealthiest, most powerful state in Europe/ME. The Komnenian emperors managed to restore a good part of its power and prestige, but that couldn't last.

Military: Manzikert

Economic: 1204

Cultural: 1453

Even their economy was shot after Manzikert. Alexios I had to make concessions to the Venetians and Genoans and let them take control of the empire's trade routes. They later walked back on those, but could never really shake the Italians off.

It's a testament to how stupidly wealthy the empire was before when they could go through a collapse like that and still more or less shrug it off economically.

Then who was the more dominant power?
Manzikert wasn't as devestating as many believe, it was only when the Mongols droves hundreds of thousands of Turkmen into Anatolia that Cappadocia became irrecoverable.

1071

1204 came at the heels of the collapse of the Comnenian restoration. The empire before the fall of Constantinople is not the same empire it was even two decades earlier.

Nonsense. They were just in the middle of their once in a decade civil war phases.

When the Byzantine Empire was confined to the city of Constantinople and some Greek towns in the 7th century as the Avars, Slavs and Persians closed in nobody said that they ceased to be a dominant power.

The Empire of the Franks would have curb stomped the Empire of the Greeks in the 8th Century

If you could change the result of a battle or kill a person in the history of byzantine empire, what would it be?

Also did Byzantine empire ever have any allies? I cant remember one time in history where someone helped them and was considered an ally, except for bulgarians thst one time at the siege of constsntinople

Change battle: Manzikert or First Fall of Constantinople.

Kill a person? Either Constantine IX so that Basil II would be forced to find a real heir, or Andronikos Komnenos.

>Also did Byzantine empire ever have any allies?
You talking short term or long term? Cause they were allied with pretty much everyone at one point or another.

Long term reliable allies

The closest you'd get is probably the Rus. Rome in general never enjoyed long term allies. Few countries ever did.

Short term though, the Empire was rarely without friends thanks to a diplomatic apparatus that wouldn't be out of place in 20th century Washington DC.

>Nonsense. They were just in the middle of their once in a decade civil war phases.
user, they had just spent the previous century getting slapped around by uppity city states and barbarous normans. They weren't in control of their own economy. They had hire out Venice to actually have a navy. Get a grip, they were nowhere near the most powerful force in the 12th century. Hell it's hard to argue they were poweful at all.

>Economic: 1204
So, the empire was basically owned by Venice, Genoa and Pisa since the late 11th century and there were bankruptcies through the 12th, yet the fourth crusade marked the moment when it stopped being economically powerful?

>Long term reliable allies
Are those a thing like, ever? For anyone?

Portugal and England

>Portugal and England
Brits flouted that one like half a dozen times, hardly reliable even if it did last a damn long time.

>Cultural: 1453

Latin Europe was stronger in music, painting, and literature for centuries before then. Plus their intellectual revival was more than two centuries old.

>Owned
Manuel Kicked out the Italians easily, it was his stupid bitch wife Maria who brought them back, which lead to her downfall.

1204 was a cheapshot. Most of the inhabitants thought the crusaders just wanted to install a new dynasty. It didn't occur that they had no idea what the fuck they were doing, and would burn down their own future capital.

"Baldwin did not approve of Raynald's attack on Cyprus, and in any case had already made an agreement with Manuel. Thus isolated and abandoned by his allies, Raynald decided that abject submission was his only hope. He appeared before the Emperor, dressed in a sack with a rope tied around his neck, and begged for forgiveness. Manuel at first ignored the prostrate Raynald, chatting with his courtiers; William of Tyre commented that this ignominious scene continued for so long that all present were "disgusted" by it. Eventually, Manuel forgave Raynald on condition that he would become a vassal of the Empire, effectively surrendering the independence of Antioch to Byzantium."
AHAHAHAHAHAHA JUST POPE MY SHIT UP
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Constantinople_(1147)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Haram
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sirmium

This, the Komnenoi were making MORE money then when the Empire controlled most of the Eastern Med.

Byzantines didn't reclaim a lot of that land in Asia Minor until John II. Hell Cilicia was being ruled by an Armenian prince.

1081 when Alexios Komnenos was crowned Emperor.

Everyone mistakingly believes that 1071 was when all of Asia Minor was lost to the Seljuks and Turkoman raiders. In reality, it wasn't until 1073 when there was a large emigration of Turkics that settled. Right after Manzikert, there was a Byzantine civil war that lasted for much of the 1070's until 1081. The Byzantines in Anatolia hired the Seljuks as mercenaries even giving them custody of cities with detrimental effect.

Had the civil war not broken out and Romanus Diogenes continued as Emperor, Byzantium would've retained Anatolia barring a few border fortresses and paying tribute to the Seljuks. If Constantinople was the brain and nerve center of Byzantium because of its symbolic and strategic value as THE Christian city and a trade emporium, Anatolia was the heart because of its vast lands that provided crops, livestock (especially horses for cavalry), and especially manpower for war. The loss of Anatolia cannot be calculated because it was their bulwark and defense-in-depth against eastern invaders as well as access to the Asian caravan routes.

By the time Alexios won the civil wars, the damage was already done and it was a friggin miracle that he and John II managed to recover much of Asia Minor. And then Manuel neglected it and Byzantium paid for it dearly. No Seljuk Anatolia means that the Ottomans and other beyliks would not have been formed.

The premature death of John II was a blow that Byzantium couldn't recover from. John II made steady gains in Anatolia. Had he lived another 10-15 years, I'm willing to argue that most of the central plateau region would've been reconquered, fortified, and settled.

One could argue the reason why the Komnenian emperors had so much revenue was because of the increased traffic between Western Europe and the eastern Mediterranean thanks to the Crusades stimulating trade and travel.

Battle of Manzikert is were I would put it if a had to tie it to e event.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert

TLD the Emporer of the time was taken as a POW after the Byzantine army had it ass kicked. He got ransom for a not small amount and let go. He was deposed, blinded, and died a slow death after words. Some people were not happy about this so a a civil war happen a few years later. The next Emperor only lasted 3 years before also being deposed.

End out come was 3 emperor in 9 1/2 years with all of them going out to civil wars right after having lost a major battle against their main rival.

Yes, at least countries like france/england/hre

Bulgaria, when united, always helped them in Asia.
They did fuck them in Europe though.

Rus never helped in Asia, and competed for Europe in a sense, Byzantium and Rus fought a war together against Bulgaria, and then against each other to divide it.

After they lost the most of MENA region to Muslims.

Nah, as they mentioned, Basil II and John II had as much income as Justinian did.