What do I answer when someone says people need religion to have morals?

What if my friends and their friends, and their millions and millions of armed friends decided that our idea of progress involved the arbitrary destruction of you and your friends?

I'm under the opinion that if that many people want to kill me, I probably deserve to die.

What if god wanted everyone to kill ___ group?

you sound like a really strong person

I'll keep that in mind.
That's a pretty good motivating factor. I'd propagate that notion to slaughter those in my way.

then that group is gonna die cuz god dont play

Yeah. It is. Be careful, you might need to think for yourself.

Ask them what laws are for

you are wrong. Hate doens't decide the fate of men or the justice they see

>you might need to think for yourself.
all roads lead to Rome

I don't see many Moabites

I like to think if that many people want to kill me, I did something that makes them want me dead.

das rite wyteboi an u gon be ded

What if you and your buddies were just possessed of an arbitrary trait that the majority just didn't care for?

I said I probably deserve it, I never said I wasn't gonna go out Tony Montana style.

What if there are two groups and both of them are claiming god is on their side?

I'd say God is playing them both. Same thing happened in Troy. God pits the men against one another to avoid being scrutinized for his actions.
Classic Divine psyop

Progress.

God is just as "arbitrary" dude. Didn't you learn this in your high school atheist phase?
God's so arbitrary that muslims use him to justify suicide bombings and shooting sprees on little girls while christians see jesus in toast.

there is no such thing as not having a religion it is simply replaced by something else
even modern day progressive atheists pride themselves on being pro science and insult and try to shut down anyone who disagrees with them its exactly like any other religion
same with the people who push for multiculturalism liberalism other modern bullshit, they are brainwashed by society to believe things like this
they did not abolish religion they only replaced it with something self destructive and suicidal

That's my point as well, humans do not ultimately abide arbitrary rule. Those who are held down by arbitrary distinction naturally rebel. It happened to the Aristocracy; it happened to God, and, by that God, it will happen to the false god of Humanism.

When the human race no longer sees itself as a being above its environs, it will proceed to tear itself apart.

You point them to religiosity and criminality studies that deal with muslim immigrants in Europe.

what happened to rome?
what happened to god?

>Moabites
Moabites were considered kin of the israelites through Lot, making them not subject to herem, basically holy war where all loot from battle, people, city, livestock, are devoted to yahweh. you are thinking of the amalekites, who are specifically named for destruction, and are killed by Saul, save their king and livestock, in violation of herem, causing him to lose his favor in yahweh.

the Romans abandoned God and fled Rome for their feudal lords under the banners of christendom.

oh
why is that such a great road then

Saul was a faggot who should have done what he was told. Samuel was right.

I wasn't referenicing Rome in of itself. But that fact that all educations lead toward the idea of piety being a good thing, hence, believing in religious morals. Which are not directly opposed to existentialism.

I don't need your "hence", you already laid it out before that. Beyond that you're just submitting to a religion to make absolute in your mind ideals you theoretically already believe in, things you might have been taught from religion but without having to fear sky king to follow unless that's seriously the only thing holding you back from evil.

Religion isn't there to keep you down, it's to institute a large enough system that can protect you from people like me.

Are you admitting it's a charade to make you behave?

Earliest written account of the Golden Rule is in Babylon where a pantheon of gods already existed in their society.

No, it's the organizations that were created by religious authority to impose undesirable consequences onto me for doing what I want that make me behave.

While it is true that most Atheists today promote some morality based on arbitrary Humanism, that won't last long. Oh, to have been born when that farce collapses

Well, I'm not saying it wasn't important to such ends. But that's all it ultimately seems to be in practice, even though a ton of good comes with it. I say pack up as much good from it as you can and carry it with you as a moral belief and not a rule.

That's the thing.
You're an even bigger farce. I'm not suggesting this will be easy, but you are dead.

Well, I shouldn't say dead, more like replaced by political tyranny.

>im a mind-reader and you worship for your daily bread
I worship because a world without God is murder and destruction of cities while abominations torture people to death in world of ruin.

If I were in a system that executed ideological enemies, I'd be the Ideologue.

Sorry you cracked I guess.

In God's world it is too. Every major religion's philosophies have been added onto, subtracted from, edited, reinterpreted, or changed in some way over time, most of the time without any explanation and with clear secular intent behind it. Meanwhile 90% of the people who actively practice religion do so while ignoring vast portions of their official religions tenets and policies in text in order to live a more comfortable life.
Its every bit as subjective as atheism and philosophy can and has been able to add bits of objectivity to atheistic morals which is on par with "gods word" type moral philosophy.

Judaism hasn't

Hey, bro, I just want to live the life I want, and slaughter anyone who defies me.
Is that really so bad?

Judaism has been adding to its canonical religious text to its foundation forever. Interpretations of said text has changed aswell. There are well documented shifts in rabbinical sermons and interpretations over time. As i mentioned, most Jews don't follow all the Kosher laws, or perform ritual sacrifice on clean animals, etc. in order to live more comfortable lives. That being said Judaism has been relatively constant, relatively.

the 2nd part is pretty bad imo

That sounds like defiance

Don't even bother talking to such retardation.

are you gonna slaughter me then? sounds pretty bad. Its also itself in defiance of the life I want to live, something Im sure you can appreciate.

I'm sure I could, if I didn't not care about what you want.

They're opinions don't change the religion. Being impious doesn't mean that the religion has changed. Also, only God can change the jewish church

Maybe you could have been a great auschwitz guard but this lifetime you'll have to settle for being you

I just want to live afore the photograph. Anyone who lives after and abets the photograph is my enemy.

Since this world denies my dream, I only want to make everyone as miserable as am I. Is that so wrong?

My point is in this lifetime it's a lot less likely you'll be able to leech onto some ideology to commit atrocities compared to the 20th century, and ostensibly being a plushy westerner. Of fucking course you could never lead one or be an effective criminal. You're just an impotent bitter little fuck, and I can't see anyone with real power having use for your ilk, except maybe antifa.

That's why I previously expressed remorse for being born during a decline and not a collapse.
Perhaps there will be someone else down the line who will take up an aim similar to mine. I just want everyone else to be miserable.

Futile conversation. You won't convince them, they won't convince you. Just say

"hmm!" like what they said was insightful and move on.

fair enough. for what its worth i do feel some pity, i can at least understand how you could become like that, i had to avoid it.

Or you just could explain that you have a fundamental ideological disagreement, and not act like a smug, autsimal cunt.

Smug cunts are definitely on the list.

that they are full of shit, spineless worms, thats what you tell em

tell him that morals can be replaced by ethics, and religion by philosophy

it's not smug if it sounds genuine. And it avoids anyone's delicate fee fees getting hurt.

The dynamics of human interaction the cause/effect make Golden Rule more of a constant without the need for supreme deity.

It works on humans, it works on animals, and it works on machines.

I don't exactly feel confident in your acting abilities. If you were to ever be so condescending to me, you'd better believe it'd be seen as defiance.
Good for you.

>could explain that you have a fundamental ideological disagreement

in my experience, just saying this is grounds for offense cause some ppl are retarded

Do it anyway. Poke the retard with your stick.

You wouldn't be able to tell I was condescending, because it wouldn't sound condescending, dumbass.

If you pushed the topic further then I would humor you, but in my experience, just nodding in agreement or making some dumb comment like 'hmm!' is more worthwhile than getting into a debate that will just end up frustrating the both of us while simultaneously making both of us more firm in our beliefs.

Like you? Being keen to the Theological situation in which we live doesn't exempt you from retardation, I'm afraid.

Atheistic Morality is a farce. Arbitrary love for a conspecific is an opiate.

>hurr durr im aggressive

and thus, why I don't like arguing with theists.

passive pussy

I'm the theist? Who here is prostrating himself afore the altar of Humanism?

They're using you, you brainlet. You've become a disciple of another False God.

>I'm the theist?

Maybe, but you're for sure a virgin.

More like Stoic.

Yes, I'm sure that entry level Harrisianism brings in the pussy from every neighboring Borough

So you don't deny it. LOL

Of all the Spooks you could have been deceived into, and it wasn't the superlative Cynicism of Antisthenes.
Meditate on how your philosophy is a derivative pile of trash.

Why would I?

Cynicism has its merits, but I prefer not living on the streets shitting into a pot.

Also, it may be derivative, but it's definitely iterative. Why do people think that just because something is original it's necessarily good or the best? C'mon user.

because you're a stupid faggot?

Religion is just a collection of prescriptions. If you just follow them without question you're by definition amoral as you don't apply any morality to your decision but just doing as you're told. Questioning is fundamental to morality.

It's of limited use, albeit when it is useful it's really good.
Example of when it backfires: Whenever a sadist meets a masochist.

t. champ right here ladies and gents. Well said. Well said.

No it's not you dunce. You can measure what's best for society and the individual person.

Cynicism is the only farce capable of emulating virtue as perceived to exist by man. If you want to waste yourself in a delusion of virtue, then it may only be the only virtue of which an animal is capable.

Stoicism is a bastardization of the Cynic that allows the stoic to enjoy all the boons of his circumstance.
>Oh, I'm the emperor of Rome, surely, I accept this as presented, and will abide it, without forgoing any of these nice things
>Yes, this is virtue

k. I'll have to do some more reading on various philosophies, but as far as I can tell Stoicism is a pretty good and rational philosophy to live by.

And it's working out for me so far.

btw Marcus Aurelius hated being an emperor and did forgo much of the perks that come with being an emperor. You'd know this if you'd read Meditations or even bothered to read about him.

Yes, a cooperative society is especially good for a defector. I'd certainly prefer that circumstance for myself.
Yes, let us all fellate ideas we agree with, that conveniently make our enemies all the lesser for sake our wit.
This is the MO of a Facebook user, mindlessly liking "inspirational" quotes without full comprehension.
Sorry to disappoint.

>im jealous b.c no one likes my facebook posts

>even though my fb posts are rilly deep, but no one understands them bc they are all dum sheep

That's because you don't have to do anything to be a stoic. Wow, a philosophy that requires no work on your part works for you? Never would have thought.
>Nobody likes posts I don't make
Cruel fate has conspired against me again.
Luckily your false God of Humanism requires you treat me with arbitrary consideration.

>that's because you don't have to do anything to be a stoic.

Wrong. Perhaps you should read into it.

>Wow, a philosophy that requires no work on your part works for you?

Yes, I think sending out my thoughts and prayers while attending a gaudy barn is much more effective a method.

>Never would have thought.

Correct, I don't think you think either. Probably why you have blind "faith."

>Yes, a cooperative society is especially good for a defector. I'd certainly prefer that circumstance for myself.
yes, that's why we have a society with laws that punish this behavior. even if we have individual motive to murder, we collectively have an interest in punishing this behavior to discourage it.

Well usually when I get told this its by a Christian so I just inform them about how Christianity is a relatively new religion and that the a bunch of the polytheist religions of the past already contained a lot of the morals that Christianity claims to have invented and that as a whole morality has been around longer than Christianity has.