is democracy ala america the best democracy?
>west germany, hitlers germany, turned into an progressive industrial powerhouse that a lot of nations look up to nowadays. also the heart of europe
>south korea. it was nothing, the start of democracication process was rough but they turned out really good
>japan, war crime capital, industrialized, tranquilized and now a democracy. they produce a lot of neat shit
Japan is a de jure liberal democracy, in reality the LDP has ruled for basically all of the postwar period. Moreover the system of the country skews heavily towards bureaucratic rule, most policy initiatives come from the bureaucratic sector. Most senior bureaucrats go on to manage the major corporations which control most of the economy and so on.
It's a democracy in name only, which is perhaps why it hasn't been cucked as hard as the West.
Anyway no, liberal democracy is a terrible system. Capital stock is built up by traditional systems of governance and then wasted away by liberal democracies on useless, pie-in-the-sky Sisyphean "social policy" (aka square peg meet round hole).
China is the best managed developing economy in the world for a good reason.
>Moreover the system of the country skews heavily towards bureaucratic rule, most policy initiatives come from the bureaucratic sector.
So what Humphrey Appleby wished the Administrative Affairs was capable of doing in Britain?
South Korea was a quasi military state until the late 80s.
The military and intelligence apparatus torture, assassinate, and straight up coup if the government panders too much to its geopolitical enemies or gets too corrupt. Hell, that's how Park Chunghee got into power as a military dictator.
Kind of. Except they're genuinely competent at running the nation and are results-driven people. They'd never open Japan's doors to immigrants in the same way Western countries have.
>Except they're genuinely competent
So was Humphrey, it's just that his job was to make sure nothing ever got done.
>They'd never open Japan's doors to immigrants in the same way Western countries have.
Of the people that actually go through the entire process for Japanese citizenship, something like 95% are accepted. It's just that the process itself is a gigantic hassle.
Yeah, I suppose so. In a way you kind of want stability in certain circumstances though. Imagine if Britain's immigration policy had maintained 1950s level of strictness at the behest of bureaucratic inflexibility. Certainly there wouldn't be next to no roving gangs of paki groomers, far less Afro-Caribbean criminals et al.
>It's just that the process itself is a gigantic hassle.
That's the point. It's that way on purpose. That and they can refuse you and you have no legal recourse to appeal, that's the way the East Asian bureaucratic system works. There's no limitless pot of legal aid for non-citizens to exploit.
No, macrohistory is what you should be looking at, not recent history. Macrohistory clearly shows that mass democracy devolves into mob rule (especially dangerous if you're dealing with racial heterogeneity) or some sort of plutocracy where people who control the flow of information (in our case the media) really rule.
The most stable states in European History were all aristocratic republics or monarchies. We still haven't learned from this, and yet we think we have the right to lecture chinks.
>democracy
Power by aristocracy is really only sustainable when military might concentrated in the hands of the martial elite. Once you give commoners guns, there's precious little difference between you and Maurice the former butcher.
>They'd never open Japan's doors to immigrants in the same way Western countries have.
Yeah, that's why they're now drowning in old people and have to invent robots to fill up all the labor jobs that nobody's doing.
Japan is about as demographically fucked as a country gets.
>Yeah, that's why they're now drowning in old people and have to invent robots to fill up all the labor jobs that nobody's doing.
>Being this much of a neo-liberal cocksucker
Firstly. Japan's capital-intensive manufacturing is significantly better than America TODAY by comparison to where it was in the 1980s. In the 1980s you at least had Americans attempting to compete in the producer's goods markets, throughout the so-called lost decades these people (e.g. Monsanto in the SMC Silicon market) have been progressively driven out by Japanese competition.
Secondly: Every single industry on earth is becoming less labor intensive by the fucking day. Even white-collar sectors like B2B marketing and sales are being automated at lightning pace, even professions like accountancy, let alone manufacturing, logistical transport etc.
And in this sort of environment, and what it bodes for the future, you want to let in millions upon millions of unskilled people to become what... uber drivers and menial service-workers who create precisely zero real wealth and whose minimal cost-saving benefits are offset by the pressure they create on real estate markets for first time buyers?
It's almost like that makes sense only if your economy is driven by debt-consumption to begin with and you want to inflate the size of domestic markets artificially. Oh wait.
>Japan is about as demographically fucked as a country gets.
Yeah except immigrant fertility declines inter-generationally. So your grandchildren can look forward to another "aging population bubble" to "solve". Probably by people who put forward the same "solution" that was put forward to you.
Fucking moron.
The USA is a moderate oligarchy. So long as we teach our kids that democracy was born in Ancient Athens, then it is mere propaganda to call modern, Western governments democratic. Almost every aspect of modern government is oligarchic.
so the solution for the japs is to fuck like rabbits? why are they not doing it? why are their birth rates going down?
>Yeah, that's why they're now drowning in old people and have to invent robots to fill up all the labor jobs that nobody's doing.
Well, all of the low-wage jobs are going to be replaced by robots in the next decade anyways. It may actually benefit them in the future to have a smaller population of high-skilled workers than a huge number of low-skilled unemployed people.
Also, importing third-worlders with a destructive ideology is never beneficial.
Japanese living space is small and expensive.
Japan is 130,000,000 people crammed into a landmass smaller than the state of California.
Real estate prices are insane, but they're actually falling now, because, you know, that's what the price of property is supposed to do in a workable economy? Not inflate to the point that property becomes unaffordable for 70% of the population?
Why don't they take "loan" some land from the mainland?
It is expensive to raise a child and maintain a decent standard of living in Japan. Most families will concentrate on having 1 or at most 2 kids and invest all their time and labor into giving them the best quality of life and socioeconomic opportunity. It is almost unheard of to have 3 kids in this recent generation.
This is not why. Irish and Italians used to live in 2 room tenements with 8 kids.
Never seen a libfag so completely BTFO'd on Veeky Forums before.
Japan's dire need for labor has been a fact for decades now. It's why professions like welders are payed through the nose. Furthermore even high skilled jobs are now experiencing shortages due to the aging population. Yes, industries are automatizing. No industry is automatizing fast enough to compensate for Japan's imbalance and shrinking workforce.
>And in this sort of environment, and what it bodes for the future, you want to let in millions upon millions of unskilled people to become what...
Replace those who are leaving the workforce, because Japanese can't replace them themselves.
>It's almost like that makes sense only if your economy is driven by debt-consumption
You dumbass. Japan has the worst debt to GDP ratio of any developed country.
>Yeah except immigrant fertility declines inter-generationally. So your grandchildren can look forward to another "aging population bubble" to "solve".
That's why you set up a healthy immigration stream that replaces without overwhelming. Japan is on the opposite end of the bell curve from Europe and US, and they're gonna have to pay hard for it in the coming decades.
>That's why you set up a healthy immigration stream
lol, by this logic you will have replaced most of the native Japanese with foreigners by about the third generation. That's your plan, to basically just replace entire population groups in their homelands, because as the experience of the Maghrebis in France, the Pakis in Britain and the Niggers in America shows clearly, disparate people are clearly interchangeable with one another.
In my opinion, the Japanese are too culturally arrogant to permit any kind of real immigration reform. They shit on ethnic Japanese from Brazil and Argentina. They discriminate against 5th generation Korean-Japanese who will forcibly brought to Japan as laborers. They look down on Okinawans as not real Japanese. And these are the people you want to embrace large scale immigration?
>Japan's dire need for labor has been a fact for decades now.
Japan's labor-shortage issues were actually more pronounced in the late 1980s.
>No industry is automatizing fast enough to compensate for Japan's imbalance and shrinking workforce.
People of your economic school have been saying this since the late 1980s. And Japan still outcompetes US manufacturing in pretty much every area: Machine tools, autos, producer's goods etc.
>You dumbass. Japan has the worst debt to GDP ratio of any developed country.
You realize Japan could liquidate its FPI holdings tomorrow and pay off all of their domestic debt and then some, because Japan is a net-exporter of capital - meaning they vendor-finance countries like yours?
Do you understand that Japan's debt-formation is fundamentally different to America's, in that their debt is almost wholly owned by their own citizens?
If Japan's debt problem were so prolific, how comes Japanese bonds command the first/second most competitive rates in the world, next to those of Switzerland and have done for decades?
>That's why you set up a healthy immigration stream
Race-replacement basically.
>Japan is on the opposite end of the bell curve from Europe and US, and they're gonna have to pay hard for it in the coming decades.
Yeah, I'm sure they look at what is happening Western Europe and are kicking themselves with envy. Those trucks of peace don't come from just anywhere, you need your own shitskins to make them happen!
>healthy immigration system
>"lol just get rid of the native population and replace them with sub-80 IQ sub-saharans bro!"
>"it will all work out in the end!"
This is your brain on liberalism.
A significant portion of the young Japanese population are socially autistic virgins. Not even kidding.
Fuck, they don't have to do anything as far as I'm concerned. But if they value their economic balls not being squeezed they better come up with something.
>But if they value their economic balls not being squeezed they better come up with something.
t. negative equity American.
And a significant portion of young Western populations are millennial manchildren who don't have real jobs, have no wealth to their name, aren't in any sort of useful education etc.
those three examples have nothing to do with the current american democracy tho
those were all inspired by the new deal type mentality ike had when they redrawn the axis powers and their territories after WW2
when he tried to implement those type of changes in the US system his own senate and the military industrial complex fucked him in the ass
>bring in slaves because you're a greedy plantation owner fuck and prefer free labor than giving a job to your fellow toothless inbred american neighbour
>decades later you need to recognize the rights and needs of those people you forcibly brought to your country
>REEEE NIGGERS DONT BELONG IN MY WHITE AMERICA REEE
kys ignorant fuckboi
I'm Greek you fucking stupid leftist.
Why do Yuropoor leftists always assume any nationalist is American?
Fucking weird.
Are you ok? Did you mean to post this here?
You were attempting to respond to criticism of mass immigration, somehow?
1950s level of strictness? The door was open to the entire commonwealth back then. Immigration law has been getting stricter over time, with the exception of EU freedom of movement.
>The door was open to the entire commonwealth back then.
That's completely untrue, there were quotas back then and no family reunification policy to exploit. Also deportation was a lot easier.
OH RIGHT, the prime example of how you're suposed to run a country right there
excuse me while I blackout myself from laughter
>Japan's labor-shortage issues were actually more pronounced in the late 1980s.
They're literally worse now than they've been in 40 years, according to Japan's own government.
You realize Japan could liquidate its FPI holdings tomorrow
You're just spouting nonsense. Japan has been trying different non conventional economic policies for three decades now, trying to give its economy a kick and wind down its debt, with mixed results. They're not some economic wonderland. The same dude crafted Japan monetary policy that did Obama's.
>Race-replacement basically.
Ah, I see. This is a /pol/ thread. My mistake. Still, you better let the Japanese know about that, given that they've already started importing Chinese workers to fix the problems you claim they don't have.
You /pol/ retards realize Middle East and Africa aren't the only places you can accept immigrants from, right?
Not to the level of Japan. The Hikikomori culture has become a burning social issue there.
>the prime example of how you're suposed to run a country right there
When did I ever claim I was proud of my country's government, contemporary or historical?
Do you actually have an argument in favor of, you know, mass immigration or are you just going to dance around the issue?
Shit that's it, you've convinced me. Japan should obviously open the floodgates and embrace suicide like the West. Thank you.
>They're literally worse now than they've been in 40 years, according to Japan's own government.
Citation?
>You're just spouting nonsense. Japan has been trying different non conventional economic policies for three decades now
No it hasn't. Japan has always run a suppressed-consumption, bank-led economy - like most East Asian economies. Financed by controlled debt rather than equity.
>Ah, I see. This is a /pol/ thread.
Well it's a pretty simple equation, if you run an immigration policy that is essentially designed to replace the native population then it is going to, eventually, replace the native population. It is basic arithmetic no?
Or are we just going to play a game of the Emperor's New Clothes by pretending a concept like Native Japanese doesn't actually exist?
>Not to the level of Japan.
Uh yes. White, western birth rates are about the same as native Japanese ones. Except that most white, western fecundity comes from the underclasses, whereas in Japan it comes from their middle and upper-middle classes.
>You were attempting to respond to criticism of mass immigration, somehow?
>compare the experience of forced repopulation and colonial explotation occuring during the eighteen century with the current work based inmigration processes as if they were the same thing or would produce the exact same results
>NIGGERS NIGGERS REEEE REEEEEEEE /pol/tard cannot fathom this is not a valid argument
here stavros, read it here so you don't have to spend anymore of your precious eurocents on internet cafe bills:
>with the current work based inmigration processes
We can exclude Black Americans from the discussion entirely and discuss third-generation Moroccans in Holland (and the fact they are inter-generationally more welfare dependant than their grandfathers were), or Pakistanis in Britain, or Maghrebis in France if you'd prefer. If you'd prefer to exclude Muslims, then we can discuss Afro-Caribbeans in Britain too.
Take your pick. It turns out that people aren't actually blank, interchangeable slates and that radically replacing part of your population with a huge chunk from another continental population group actually creates all sorts of social dysfunctions. Funny that.
>insults Greeks
>white knights niggers and pakis
Kek. This is the ultimate litmus test that Greeks are actually white: Libfags have zero hand-wringing, candle-lighting sympathy for them.
He's also wrong in assuming it's all "work-based", most net inflows are the result of family reunification policy these days.
See above. You can't have a work-based immigration system with the current family reunification system as mandated by the Acquis (i.e. EU law/highest law). It's impossible. Denmark was taken to the ECJ because they tried to crack down on this very thing.
Yes but the Italians and Irish were mostly working poor, a group that tends to haave more kids across the board.
*most net inflows for settlement
So you got triggered when someone mentioned American blacks and couldn't contain your impulse to signal, fine. But the thread was supposed to be about Japan, SK, and Germany, not the CSA.
>we can exclude example A from your point, but what about examples B, C, D and E from the same point? those really prove what I'm trying to say!
>implying those cases are not in fact the backlash of those colonial periods (i.e, most if not any of those examples are in fact situations of colonial citizens who would be able to emigrate at any time independently of migratory policies)
just accept that brown people makes you feel insecure and call it a day really
it's unhealthy to be so obsessed with minorities all the time
>country has problem
>problem will be solved by mass importing populations that have nothing to do with the country's culture, lifestyle, population
>everything will surely work out just look at how-oh....
>getting this BTFO
Stop posting and never come back to this board again.
Every society has working poor. Yet even residual working class whites today will still have only 2 or 3 kids usually. Family sizes exploded during the 20th century and fell back down drastically. We literally doubled in size in the last century.
>implying those cases are not in fact the backlash of those colonial periods
Huh? Holland didn't colonize Morocco. And France colonized North Africa for what, 40 years? Compared to North Africa's enslavement, rape and aggression against Southern Europe which lasted for what, about a thousand years or more?
So to conclude, you're saying that third-generation Moroccans in Holland have increasingly high rates of welfare dependency and criminality compared to native Dutch because they're trying to get revenge on the Dutch for the French creating the Moroccan protectorate in 1912? Despite the fact that Southern French, Spanish, Italians and Greeks have a far more lengthy historical grievance against North Africans in general?
Except you're wrong. Before the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962, Commonwealth citizens could enter and live in the UK freely. That's why the 1962 act was made.
It's just mind boggling to me that there are people ITT who believe that the East Asians look at Western Europe and think "yeah, we want that!"
I mean these are people who must have never traveled outside of western countries before.
All these people need to be fucking hanged. They've already destroyed western Europe.
I hate the way some overseas chinks act but I can totally understand their hatred of westerners who go over there and stir up trouble in HK and try to interfere in Cross-Strait Relations.
These people and their fucking surrogate for Christianity, I swear...
>universal suffrage since 1893
>no Upper House
>proportional representation
>perceived as one of the world's least corrupt countries
Only the Nordic countries can compete with New Zealand.
NZ girls have the highest number of average sexual partners in the world.
ok, dutch moroccans are certainly a good point and I agree you have a case with it
thanks for the enlightment my fellow anthro/pol/olgist
>Cherrypicking
I gave you numerous other examples of some of the largest ethnic minority groups in Europe: Maghrebis in France for example, who number in the millions. Afro-Caribbeans in the UK, who are second only to South Asians in raw numbers.
Immigrant communities that number in excess of >1 million do not "integrate" because they do not need to, they form a Nation within a Nation because that's what demographically significant numbers of people do, they form their own communities, organizations, pressure groups, activist organizations, political causes, professional associations and it generally makes the business of forming a cohesive nation to which everyone feels they belong that much harder.
So no, Dutch Moroccans, Turks in Germans, Maghrebis in France, Pakis in Britain. These are the rule, not the exception.
Get this Unicameral degeneracy out of here
1800-1912 America was pretty much as good as you can get in terms of balancing Democracy, individual liberty, Capitalism, and protectionism for domestic workers. It wasn't perfect by any means, but on the whole it did some damn good work, especially for such a huge country. The only nation who has ever arguably done it better is Switzerland.
Wtf I love unbridled capitalism now
>Then let millions of strangers in and get a country divided, with one side taking the latino and black vote and the other taking the white vote
>All other aspect of politics are now details