Who started it?

I'm kind of annoyed because most books more or less skip over Austria Hungary and Russia in favor of the easier to study and read Great Britian Germany France story.

Heres my QRD, tell me where I'm wrong.
1. AH annexes Bosnia Herzegovina which creates a constitutional crisis. The Kaiser and his government are not sure if it should be a crown land, an independant South Slav entity, or a hungarian holding and end up choosing not to create a Triple Monarchy in order to appease Hungary. By doing this Serbian and slavic Nationalist look to Serbia instead of the possible Croatian/Bosnian Habsburg Crown. Serbs in Serbia and AH agitate with violence and political pressure within the existing constitution. The leadeship in AH believes the situtation is a mortal threat to its existence and that Serbia must be dealt a prestige blow in order to restore internal stability. No documents seem to show an intent to annex Serbia, but there is intent to weaken her by allowing neighboring allies to take a piece, a act which SErbia herself had not hesitated to do with in the decade.

2. Russia claims to have a right to rule South Slavs. It sees the balkans as a path to controlling the Dardanells and Constantinople which is an essential trade route for its economy. Russia fears that failing to defend the balkans would cause a loss of support from the south slav states and close the door to it gaining dominion and control over its own access to the Mediterranean. It moves to attack AH because it ultimately wants to control Constantinople, or at least keep that door open.

3. France is eternally but hurt over the loss of Alsace and Lorraine and war mongers and veterans of the FP war of 1870 grew up to control the government. One of them si the French ambassador to Russia. IT allies with Russia despite it being its ideological antithesis because Russia as an ally is the best weapon to defeat Germany and get revenge. It even dumps a shit load of money into Russia in order to build up the railways in russia thus allowing it wage war on germany better. The French ambassador to RUssia did everything in his power to encourage Russia to declare war on AH because he knew that RUssia attacking AH would trigger the triple alliance and draw germany into a fight. France was aware that the Germans were planning on attacking both France and Russia at the sametime thanks to a spy who gave them a copy of the plans while wearing all bandages.

if the kaiser didn't let the treaty expire and piss on germany's relationship with the russians like some sort of dumb cunt, what russia did and didn't want would have never mattered

4. Britian mobilized its navy before Germany sent an ultimatum to Belgium. Britian gave orders to its navy to defend the French coastline before the German ultimatum to Belgium. The British cabinet's dicussions were primarily about its distaste for a German dominated continent and its desire to not see France beaten in a war and that it woudl have to intervene to prevent that from happening. After the belgian ultimatum the British cabinet discussed military strategy not in terms of defending belgium but in terms of defending France. The Cabinet did not even discuss sending troops to Belgium but sending them to reinforce the french flank. Belgium was only ever discussed in terms of being a rational for public consumption. After the war Britian gave fuck all to Belgium in terms of compensation and territory int he Versailles treaty despite Belgian diplomats begging for aide just ot rebuild.

The German cabinet doesn't seem to have wanted war at all. The Kaiser didnt think it necessary based on the Serbian response to AH ultimatum. Discussions were had that France would not stop provoking Germany and that the UK and France continued to work to hinder Germany's colonial and economic ambissions abroad. Early war time discussions show no interest from any german politicians in western annexations. German public opinion litearlly used the word 'race traitor' upon haering the UK would go to awr with them. The German high command literally believed they could get through belgium without belgium being violated and that they would compensate her for collateral damage. The German leadership literally believed the Russians and French were conspiring to destroy her. (Russia did not appear to have hostile intentions toward Germany or AH but was thinking primarily of its vital economic interests in the Med. Sea.) The kaiser was acting in good faith by standing with AH.

Italy fucked over its allies for two reasons. 1. the government in Italy was at risk of collapse and consensus for war just wasnt there. 2. Italy had designs on AH's italian subjects. Italy's declaration of Neutrality was sketchy as there was no Serbian-Russian alliance, and Russia had mobilized and attacked AH, thus triggering the Triple alliance. However, the allied diplomats were speaking of events such that AH is the aggressor thus allowing Italy the option of agreeing and dodging its obligations. This freed about 6 divisions for France to place in Germanys way. THis is treachory enough without even mentioning Italys entrance into the war on the side of the Entente. Too bad for ITaly England and France and the US didn't give a fuck about the Treat of London they signed luring Italy into the war on their side.

I will also point out that the British cabinet argued that its entente coridal with France obligated it by honor to enter the war on France's side. This is without a formal alliance being present.

BY THIS EXACT logic it also follows that Germany MUST defend AH from attackers in the event of war and it had an even stronger obligation to do so given the stronger nature of the triple alliance.

Thus it also follows that the cabinet itself did not believe in German war guilt but pushed the narrative to sell it to the public and posterity.

Thus, in conclusion Russia and AH were both in weakened positions and thought the Balkans situation contained threats that threatened their existence as powers.

France desiring war with Germany pushed Russia to mobilize against AH knowing it would pull Germany into a fight and activiting its treaty obligations allowing it to fulfill its 50 year plans of encirclement and revenge. The French government was also well aware that Britian would act in favor of the weaker power (france) and moved to trap GB into its alliance against Germany. it even ordered the French army to retreat 10 km further into the interior to strengthen the German position and make GB more likely to feel the French were threatened.

THe key to this is looking at Paliologs interaction iwth Russia where it chose to encourage war instead of dissuade.

The british foreign office did not want war but felt it had to join one should it arise, belgium was not an issue at all. The German government did not want war either but did desire to see an end to encirclment it felt threatened it. AH and Russia both did not want war but felt their interests required control fo the balkans for survival.

France did want war. It wanted revenge. Its foreign policy and financial policy had created a totally surrounded Germany. There is no record of conversation of the French pushing to stop war int he balkans or with Germany. there is however the opposite.

What the fuck is up with that map? The Germans own Metz but not the rest?

Belgium started it

>Radical wehraboo

So basically, u be sayin Germany dindu nuffin and he a good boi?
So original...

>it even ordered the French army to retreat 10 km further into the interior to strengthen the German position and make GB more likely to feel the French were threatened.

Imagine being so deep into your delusion of German innocence and French guilt you try to make facts proving France didn't want war pass as some epic machiavellian scheme to ensure help from a country already allied with France....

>Germoney dindu nuffin

>if the kaiser didn't let the treaty expire and piss on germany's relationship with the russians like some sort of dumb cunt, what russia did and didn't want would have never mattered
Spoken like a true s/his/poster. Russia's relationship with Germany was already very strained after Bismarck sided with Austria in the Balkans which is where Russia's relationship with France stems from. Wilhelm also didn't piss on Germany's relationship with Russia. On the contrary, actually. He and his cousin Nicholas were actually pretty close meaning the secret treaty wasn't necessary in his eyes. Stop taking everything you read on this board as word of God. Few people here crack any secondary works open beyond their intro course textbooks, let alone primary source documentation.

>arguments in favor - well researched statements with solid factual foundations
>arguments against - random wikipedia screencaps and reaction images

Really makes those neutrons firing.

Funny that chart leaves out Russian and British mobilization

Pure ignorance. There is LITERALLY records of the conversations about why France did it. Its not even up for debate.

YouTube education is so prominent here alongwitb Dan Carlins redditcore history

Obvious that Nicky and the Kaiser wanted an alliance because they signed one but Russian deep state undermined it because of Balkan ambition

Care to provide said records then?

I don't believe Germany dindu nuffin but I think Germany catches a lot of blame that should be more directed at Austria-Hungary and their meme empire

Its reddit protocol to ask for sources when you lose an argument. Buy a fucking book or use google you moron. Either cite source that strengthens your argument or fuck off To plenbit

Doesn't AH have a right to defend itself against Serb agitation?

And despite what meme books tell you citizens in AH did not feel their society was anachronistic . In fact they felt they were the center of civilization. And nationalist forces almost all wanted to work within the AH system to increase national autonomy. This even includes young Adolf Hitler. The Serbs were the only group that had a significant percentage who wanted a break from the Habsburg empire.

Austria not understanding how to negotiate.
The war was not wanted by Germany, nor Russia, nor France and neither Great Britain.
The only one who wanted war was the Kaiser of Austria and his retarded general staff who wanted to fight with the delusional mindset that they could win a war in days without having any infrastructure in the military neither in tje country to do it.
Austria is the only one guilty of the Great and the World War. They started the second also with retarded demands:"Is either all the Ultimatum or none."
Stop fucking shilling for Austria or go in the stormfag dichotomy of "WAS A CONFLICT BEDWEEN FRANCE AND MIGHTY POOR AND STRONG BUT WEAK TO LOSE THE WAR, GERMANEEE"

>make a dubious claim
>gets mad when asked to prove it

>The Serbian government should be allowed to support terror attacks in its neighbor and agitate for insurrection
>arguing that AH didn't want a war with Russia and France makes you a stormfag

This place is worse than I thought

>doesnt even make an argument
>gets called out
>you Didn't give citations in Chicago format tho LMAO

you're literally contributing nothing to the conversation.

AH dindu nuffin
Bosnia wanted to be annexed by them

No the guy you're replying to, but you're the faggot here

You made a weird claim in this post and you won't even care to give any source on it
Even a reddit page if that's all there is, but give something

"Allied diplomats were making it seem like Austria-Hungary was the agressor"
They were the first to declare war you dipshit, what is that if not agression.

>France was aware that the Germans were planning on attacking both France and Russia at the same time

So they were planning to start the war? Seems pretty clear cut to me

>Serbs agree to all but one of your demands
>refuse to negotiate further and declare war
Not him and I'm not even saying Austria-Hungary is solely to blame for the war or anything, just that they're more to blame than Germany (as is typically depicted in normie circles/media). I'd say Russia is as much to blame as AH and that the entire war in general was only possible because of the unmitigated autism of all major European powers combined

They literally did you idiot. Austria poored money into it and the annexation have them political rights

No. But the plan show that Germany was committed to a two front war scenario with no way to attack just one side

The Serbian government had knowledge of the assassination and its ministers funded and refused to share the information with AH.

What is that if not casus Bellum

>its reddit protocol to ask for sources
/pol/ack detected

Okay, I'm not the one you're arguing with, and I'm just interested in finding out more about your claim. Can you provide a source so that I can look into this further or at least point me in the right direction? Perhaps you could at least give me the name of whatever it was you found this information in?

Gj Meyer
Margaret Macmillon
Barbara Tuchman
Christopher Clark
Petier Judson
Shirer (third republic book)

I sure bet you redditors will go read these.

You literal retard, do you fucking know the demands AH wrote? You little piece of shit. Do you read books other than the fucking intellectual masturbation of the germaboos?
How can you prove me that there is a fucking difference between you and a tankie? You both autists cannot read trough sources and neither provide them.
You come to this fucking board thinking that you will say whatever shit you want without anyone touching your little fancy pride over a mystic past that never happened?
EVERYONE, THE KAISER, THE TSAR, FRANCE, ENGLAND
I repeat
EVERYONE EXCEPT THE FUCKING AUSTRIANS, WHO DID NOT EVEN HAD A FUNCTIONAL RAILROAD SYSTEM TO START A WAR, WERE OKAY WITH THE INVESTIGATION BUT WANTED A INTERNATIONAL GROUP TO OBSERVE THE INVESTIGATION AND NOT ONLY THE AUSTRIAN GOVERNMENT WHO WANTED TO EXPAND THEIR INFLUENCE IN THE BALKANS
CAN YOU READ IN CAPS OR ARE YOU A FUCKING NIGERIAN BABOON WHO IS DUMMER THAN A JAPANESE MONKEY?

It started in 1683, and we still live in it's legacy. Unless you understand this, you'll never truly understand modern history.

> Doesn't AH have a right to defend itself against Serb agitation?

Don’t Southern Slavs have a right to defend theirselves against German colonization?

> Germans in AH did not feel their society was anachronistic

FTFY

> The Serbs were the only group that had a significant percentage who wanted a break from the Habsburg empire.

Everybody wanted to break from the German Habsburg empire, except the Germans.