Why are Normans considered """French"""? They're just Vikings who adopted the French language

Normans didn't refer to themselves as French

French refered to themselves as French obviously

"Norman" is an English invention because they dislike the fact that they are the French's first colony

Yes, that's why I'm fucking annoying as fuck when I hear normies claim that Normans were "French" or that English people are actually really just French in reality. If we're going to use that logic English people are Danish because Anglo Saxons came from southern Denmark and northern Germany.

That's not what irony means

...

By that logic I suppose the French fought 'the British' in the Hundred Years' War, despite having the assistance of the Scots?
Normandy was as distinct a state from France as England was from Scotland, and the modern English are descended from the Normans. Sorry about that, old bean.

>"French people" before the 19th century

Before that "France" was a mosaic of languages and cultures. Normans were their own thing, Gascons were their own thing....and I'm not even talking about Bretons and Basques who aren't even Romance-speaking. There was no super unitary France like today in the Middle Ages.

The Normans were only paying lip service to the king, Normandy was the most powerful duchy in Europe and the French king was powerless to stop their expansion. They were in no way subdued by the French. "The swearing of allegiance to a king was an official ceremony. Rollo had to put his hands in those of Charles the Simple, after which the king offered him his daughter’s hand in marriage, and confirmed his right to the land between the Epte and the sea, and all of Brittany as a hereditary estate."
That is not a mere swamp.

>after which the king offered him his daughter’s hand in marriage
Ameridumb detected

This thing only happened in Vikings in reality Vicucks came, we BTFO'd them, then they agreed to be our watchdogs so we gave them a bit of land that the Bretons raided often

>and the French king was powerless to stop their expansion
Their expansion outside of France then
Normandy was rather small, and never expanded on French lands (that's why they had to conquer England)

>They were in no way subdued by the French
They were French, ot was their ethnicity
The political entity "Kingdom of France" =/= "The French"

>after which the king offered him his daughter’s hand in marriage
Now you just went full retard?
Are you taking your infos from that fictional Vikings serie?
Because that part (alongside 50% of the series plot) was invented
Rollo married Poppa of Bayeux, a low rank French noble

>Ameridumb detected
Not argument and I'm not American.

I've got a Norman last name and I am English and Austrian mostly. I identify as American. Fuck the French I don't want any of that shit. These pussies used ballet as an intimidating technique.

How do you think you have a Norman last name when last names didn't exist until the 16th century in England?

>Not argument and I'm not American.
Then be a good non-american and try to not use TV to educate yourself

The wife of Rollo wasn't the king's daughter but some random girl it isn't even sure if she was from the aristocracy

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppa_de_Bayeux

The French culture and language exists since around the 10th century tho
Pic related, in blue the area it comprised until the 18 century (Normandy was part of it)

Crazy how retards always need to exaggerate
They learn that regional dialects were widspread until the Revolution, and suddently they decide it means French language and culture didn't exist at all unil then...

>Fuck the French I don't want any of that shit. These pussies used ballet as an intimidating technique.

You fucking what, my LARPing french friend?

You spouted bullshit
Whether you're American or British (more likely) is irrelevant

No. Rollon was indeed a Norwegian warlord who swore fealty to the French crown, and was invited to settle in the region henceforth known as Normandy. There was little effort of colonisation, and he and his men immediately converted and intermarried with locals. The French conquest of England that happened more than century later was led by the descendants of these men, who kept little, if anything, of the culture, language of their ancestors. Most of them would have barely any Nordic blood in them. Guillaume the Conqueror's ancestors hadn't used nordic-inspired names or titles in generations.

>implying any of these dialects and cultures (other than maybe Breton, Corsican, and Alsatian) are different enough that they shouldn't be considered as simple local variations of French culture

My last name is derivative of a Norman noble's house name.

What is it?

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normand
>Le normand (normaund en normand) est une langue romane parlée en Normandie continentale et insulaire. C’est une des principales langues d'oïl. Il est classé dans les langues sérieusement en danger par l'Unesco.

magene.pagesperso-orange.fr/richesse.html
youtube.com/watch?v=9UQmpmBTN3w
youtube.com/watch?v=ubGjasm63Y0

Hmm, Really makes you think.

I'll tell you this. One of these nobles confounded the Nights Templar. (Though I don't think this particular one lived in Normandy.)

Holy shit I am an idiot... KNIGHTS Templar

You're aware that the "Normand" words on the cover of this book are French ?

And French has many common word with Italian, with differences in pronunciation.
I guess Italian is a French dialect and should be banned and erased.
Also, why are you ignoring all the other facts about Normand being a distinct language along with many others?

>les casse-couilles du patois
As if someone was responsible of the decay of these dialects. Speak it if you want and don't make a fuss.

>many common word

It's not common word here

These are French words

As an example "vent" is just "wind" in French

First grand master

Norman is literally a dialect of French and not a language (unlike Breton or Occitan)
Calling it a language is like calling American English a language

Hugues de Payens wasn't Norman tho
He was from Troyes (South East from Paris)

Yes I know. People move around. Payen was an area in Normandy.

>Ausquel' tu abouïa la glaouette no du soir loindeman betaous. La pier li goula enli bostono blablablablabla
>13:30 Francique Lorrain kek

Was there any real fighting at all in that siege or did Charles just straight out give Normandy away after seeing the Norsemen?

>Payen was an area in Normandy.

Wrong
It's a village near Troyes

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payns

>or did Charles just straight out give Normandy away after seeing the Norsemen

Are you retarded?
Look at the outcome, the Norsemen lost

Is it Paine?

...Paine?

books.google.com/books?id=KE0NAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=albert w paine&source=bl&ots=KAT2w2-9rN&sig=XFTLfvdWNXt9PX23CcRc1alrjoM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiR3o77sO7WAhVHyoMKHRZoCL0Q6AEIOzAE#v=onepage&q=albert w paine&f=false

It's a numbers game. They conquered a weak bunch of peasants, but there weren't enough of them to really dominate the culture. If they wanted to get shit done, they had to learn the local lingo. No doubt they selected the prettiest choice maidens, and then if they wanted to keep tapping dat poontang, they really had to learn some words. Now multiply this over a few generations.

Same thing has happened many many times. Ottoman Turks are a similar same story. Or why, for example, we have the Romance family of languages. And so on. Wide largescale population replacement if more rare.

>Muh wikipedia tabs
They were given Normandy and got French gfs, thats a win if u ask me

Actual Normand here

You aren't Normand you're an Anglo, even if you have a bit of our blood in you, it is certainly extremely diluted

Full retard
Brits tend to name all the French influence in their island as "Norman" to avoid having to use the term "French", but a large chink of it was non-Norman French

After the Norman domination (1066-1154) came the Angevin domination (1154-1485) that instilled ton of French influence not from Normandy in England
Your name comes from that period and not from Normans
Payns isn't a Norman name

>Normandy was as distinct a state from France as England was from Scotland

No it was not.

Your point?
Normans may be the ones who introduced that French name in England, but it doesn't mean every Frenchman that bore it was Norman

It was above all a French name (and not a Nord one) that some Normans adopted

Hugues of Payns had no tie at all with Normandy, and the fact some Normans had the same French name as him as a result of their Frenchification doesnt change that fact

Do you actually have records going back to Hugues de Payens? Because the surname Paine is relatively common and in most cases seems to have originated as a nickname for someone from the countryside

Nope, the real thing is that Vikings weren't conquerors in France, but defeated invaders that were offered a swamp in exchange for submission and service (guarding the Seine's estuary)

That's why they integrated to French culture and language so quickly (one generation), because they didn't have the choice

Meanwhile in England (where the Normans were actually conquerors) they imposed their culture and language (which was now French) to the locals for centuries (dozens of generations)

Fuck you guys I'm not French God damn it!

the remainder is probably native briton

Where you getting your source? Mine is spelled with a Y

forebears.io/surnames/paine

>orange is a combination of red and yellow
>dark orange is made with a greater percentage of red than yellow
>therefore dark orange does not contain yellow
t. supreme intellectual

relax, you need some frog legs and wine there Remy?

Lol I know for a fact that I am Austrian though. Basically everyone on my mother's side is either straight from Austria or Denmark. I'll allow some French in me we were pretty chill I guess. Yeah, you know what, French people WERE cool! French master race go fuck yourself anglo stop talking to me.

You do have some Saxon genes in you, around 10% according to geneticists

But this meagre ammount doesn't allow you to larp as Saxons, you are Bretons in denial.

>burger thinks he's descended from nobility
>turns out just to be a hillbilly

Well even the Kingdom of Wessex was founded by a man generally accepted to have been an Anglicised Celt, Cerdic
But how exactly can one 'larp' as his own ancestors?

t. Ahmed for Algiers

>even if you have a bit of our blood in you, it is certainly extremely diluted
No shit, Clement, it was nearly 1,000 years ago
Fact is most - if not all - of England is probably descended from William himself, never mind your average Norman in his camp

hey it isn't as ridiculous as Hungarians calling themselves "Magyars"

>Fact is most - if not all - of England is probably descended from William himself,

>tfw your 100% pure Anglo-Saxon name just means "gelder"

~40 generations can spawn a lot of descendants

and literally all of them could die out. how does that prove anything

>as his own ancestors

You are 10% Saxon and 90% Briton your ancestors are Britons

But we know they didn't, and we also know that William's descendants: a) occupied a wealthy position in society for centuries, and b) ultimately produced descendants we would consider 'lower-class' or 'common'

>the point I was trying to make was that Anglos are all descended from Normans (they arrived in their thousands and settled across Britain)

t. french in denial

Is taking the frenchpill this painful? I can't tell, since I'm french

Nah it's only hard for me (honestly all this shit is BS my people have likely been German and English for millennia) because I have associated myself with being Austrian and English and not French at all. I'm American though, we're all mutts and none of it matters.

It's okay if you want to have an Anglo-Austrian identity.

Thanks user.

No problem, Adolf Godwinson

>literally refer to themselves as French on the Bayeux Tapestry and London Charter

t. someone that doesn't live in the Old World and never encountered dialects

I'm literally French, though.

It's pretty common for heritage-obsessed Americans. People with a Scottish surname who think they are descended from the clan with the same name, for example. Happened to my family: I'm from an old French noble family, we have precise records and held on the family's ancestral castle with a village around it that bears our name.
Years ago my grandpa received, at the castle's address, a letter on paper with our coat of arms on it, from an older guy from the Midwest who called himself the "Baron [our name]", who apparently wanted to get in touch with "his French family". We had never heard of the guy, as far as we knew no one in our family had ever emigrated, and my grandpa was the one who held the baron title. So as you can imagine, we were pretty surprised. This guy looked for information about his family online, found that his surname appeared in a lot of historical records, and of course he found the village and castle. He found a guy with our name on Ellis Island, and it's an extremely unique surname, he figured we were from the same family. Guy just ran with it. Didn't stop to consider if he was really the one holding any kind of title. So for like a decade, the guy told everyone around him he was a noble, became a huge Ouiboo, his grandchildren all have French names, he flew the royal flag on his house, etc.
My grandpa was curious, so he responded by inviting the guy here. His whole family arrived, and they were completely honest and earnest. They checked all the family records together, no match. They checked the village's archives, and then found a possible match. Turns out one guy from the village did emigrate, and just took his village's name when arriving in the US. Poor guy's dream was crumbling, and he was pretty embarrassed. But they found that some of their family still lived in the village, and he and my grandpa still get along well, so it's not all bad.

Who cares you're just a stupid fucking noblemen. Your kind got eradicated in the 18th century. Whoopty-fucking-doo.

They are rape babies but who did the raping?

>So for like a decade, the guy told everyone around him he was a noble, became a huge Ouiboo, his grandchildren all have French names, he flew the royal flag on his house, etc.
that's fucking hilarious

The Normans were just LARPing as French

>They're just Vikings who adopted the French language.
Norman is/used to be it's own language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_language

They interbred so much that they were french just how Americans with 1/32th Cherokee blood aren't natives americans.

And the Normans who came to England interbred so much that they became English

>91 replies many about Normans (French) ruling England
>no-one brings up Normans ruled England for 60 years.
>no-one brings up that Frenchies from Anjou ruled it for over 300

Veeky Forums you suck.

>no-one brings up that Frenchies from Anjou ruled it for over 300

>insulting historically literate people
>saying something this fucking stupid
user you suck

He rite u now

Only after several centuries
While the Danes in France exclusively interbred and directly adopted French culture, Normans in England mostly kept to each others and only started to learn English after two centuries had passed

>you are french if your great-grandfather was french

When you really look at Viking history, it is easy to see why Scandinavian politics , and society is like it is now.

>your dad was French, your mom was French, you speak French....but you're not French

truly perfidious even for you albion

Elaborate.