ITT: Make the Axis Win

>OR Japan bombs Pearl Harbor but Germany doesn't declare war on the United States.
I'm fairly certain that wouldn't matter and the USA would still go against Germany, they were already supplying Allied states before even joining the war.

Germany already tried to capture Britain in 1940, they were very close

Probably because hoi3's logistics system is great at being an annoyance and halting advances. The weather, terrain, poor infrastructure, and partisan activity will all effect your supply situation.
Mods like Black Ice also let the Soviet Union materialize entire armies out of thin air.

>Japan attacks Pearl Harbor in 1938
>this has two major effects
>first one is FDR is seen as weak by the American public and loses reelection
>the other is America joins the war effort before they complete the buildup of military might they had
>this premature entry leaves them weaker and more resource strained
>America can't develop the nuke
>Germany finishes their nuke in 1945
>Destroys Moscow and St. Petersburg
>USSR falls
>Britain gave up in 1940 and has been playing defense since
>Germany and Japan are the world's superpowers
>America begins suffering attacks on home
>Signs a peace treaty to end it anyway
>Germany and Japan sign the treaty because they can't sustain continued attacks on America financially

Twenty years later, WWIII happens and all of Earth is killed.

>Germany already tried to capture Britain in 1940, they were very close
How were they "very close" exactly?

>USSR falling if Piter and Moscow are destroyed
That's not how it works. It barely would have any lasting consequences.

They got one of Britain's 3 fighter groups to consider withdrawing to airbases in the midlands instead of staying down south.

They had an invasion plan.

you forgot to spam CAS and set them to "ground support" and then "ground attack" once the enemy starts retreating. You also forgot to spam mechanized units with Self-propelled artillery brigades.

...Perhaps because the Midlands were out of German fighters' range?

>Germany already tried to capture Britain in 1940, they were very close

No, they weren't. Nazi Germany lacked both the air power and the sea power required to subdue Britain.

>Japan attacks Pearl Harbor in 1938
>When it had one fleet carrier operational

TACs are better for ground support though.

Germany completely lacked the means to invade Britain. Compare the size of the Royal Navy to the seize of the Kriegsmarine during this time period. The KM had no chance.

.t Schlomo shekelburgerstein von kikenballs.

Really? I just mass used CAS and naval bombers, guess I'll try that out

>nazis build time machine
>Hitler travels 2600 years into the past
>shoots Abraham before he gets visited by God
>eternal Jew won't even begin to exist
Problem solved.

>Proper victory for all Axis powers (including Japan) and defeat of the US and USSR
Not possible.
>Victory for Germany & Italy
- Introduce Speer's wartime economy in '39
- Same weapon designs for Germany and Italy
- Conduct every attack like IRL until the conquest of Greece in '41 save for the Battle of Britain, remain on the defensive in the air war against Britain
- Don't treat the occupied peoples like dogshit, but start recruiting armies from them and give them as much freedom as possible (so that they still help Germany & Italy)
- Convince Franco to join the Axis or overthrow him quietly, take Gibraltar
- Remain on the defensive in North Africa
- Bomb and blockade Malta from Italy & NA until it surrenders
- Accept the request of the USSR to join the Axis
- Either support Japan through and with the USSR and help them in China, but if they want to pick the fight with the US tell them to fuck off
- Convince Turkey to join the Axis in face of the regional superiority of the Axis (now supported by the USSR)
- Invade the ME through the Caucasus and from Turkey, use the anti-British sentiment of the locals to support the fight
- Push for the Suez canal, grind the regional British forces down via Germany's, occupied Europe's, Turkey's and the USSR's superior resources
- Always interrupt British shipping with submarines
- Eventually take the Suez, starve out Cyprus and take North Africa
- Support independence movements in India
- Either offer a peace treaty for the UK that's favorable for the Axis or produce tons of aircraft with all the Axis + occupied territories industrial might and defeat Britain by bombing campaigns
>3rd option (not being a faggot)
This

CAS are cheaper and better against vehicles.

I know they didn't. But the thought that Germany would have invaded the UK with an amphobious operation is hilarious.

They invaded France and the Channel isn't very broad I guess.

>Muh Speer
Fun fact: sectors that Speer had no control over also experienced the same production increases. Ergo, Speer had nothing to do with German production increases.

*introduce the restructuring of Germany's war economy and beneficial changes in arms production that was done too late IRL sooner, regardless of who was behind it.

It's pretty much academic consensus that the reason for German production increases had nothing to do with reforms. Germany experienced increases in munitions in 1944 because they had been putting in a lot of their resources into increasing their IC before that.

should've focused on TC or convoy spam.

Build nukes instead of V2

Yes, in my experience at least they tend to inflict more organisation damage which makes enemies retreat faster, while CAS is better at inflicting strength damage.
So you use TAC to make the enemy retreat and then use CAS when they're retreating to grind their divisions down.
Yes, but CAS also has much shorter range. It comes down to your IC really; if you're a country like the USA, Germany, or the Soviet Union, then you should have at least 1 wing of 4 TACs, otherwise if you're a poorer country like Italy or Japan then CAS spamming can suffice.

>Invade the ME through the Caucasus and from Turkey
Sounds like a logistical nightmare.

>ITT: Make the Axis Win
You can't.

WWII was simply unwinnable come 1945 for anyone who hadn't developed pic related.

Get Asuka Soryu Langley to help them.

It would be, that's why nobody on Veeky Forums is a general.

You mean my 4,000 hours on Darkest Hour: A Hearts of Iron Game is not a good substitute for officer training? Fuck you I could've made the Schlieffen plan work.

Look at the prerequisites in my scenario.
I think it would be possible with the help of Turkey, the Soviet Union, local uprising Arabs, constant interruption of Royal Navy shipping, a closed Gibraltar strait for Britain, the full force of the Italian Navy available for the eastern Mediterranean, Soviet Black sea fleet available, and the gained industrial superiority over Britain.

Hoi4 > HoI 3

I didn't mention HoI 3 anywhere tho

And how many hours do you have on Men of War: Assault Squad 2? I could make a decent field commander.

If Turkey went Axis, it would be invaded immediately from both sides and occupied within weeks.

Lmao just fucking drop paratroopers on a few cities. Get enough VP points and Britain will capitulate.

Very relevant ITT

See Not if Greece is under Axis occupation and the USSR joined the Axis...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks

Why not just have the USA join the Axis too that would makje things a lot easier.

>Not if Greece is under Axis occupation and the USSR joined the Axis...
Wait why is Germany attacking the USSR through Turkey in this scenario?

You see the link I posted right there? If the Nazi leadership wouldn't have been retarded an alliance with the USSR would have been possible. They made several serious attempts to join the Axis.
Because that's too unrealistic. German logistics would be inferior to Soviet ones in the region and the Soviets might even be able to push into Turkey. It wouldn't be (and wasn't) wise to deny Soviet Axis membership if your intention is winning the war.

This is pretty good. There was anti-bolshevik sentiment in the UK, so there would be riots if the PM dragged them into a war to help the Soviets.

This.

Any scenario that has Germany "winning" WW2 (or at least reaching a sort of Cold War stalemate), requires them to develop nuclear weapons, which they were very far from doing by 1945.

Germany developing nuclear weapons requires them not rejecting "Jewish physics" and not expelling their Jews from academia (including one certain Albert Einstein). It also requires them to prepare properly for a long winter campaign on the Soviet Union, to treat occupied populations (particularly slavs) leniently, and to avoid needlessly pissing off the British with V-2s and terror bombings.

Basically, any scenario that has Germany winning WW2 involves Nazis not being Nazis.

Germany had the better army, resources, generals and technicians, but out of all the Axis countries Hungary had - ironically - the most cunning politicians.

If they had framed the whole war as a crusade uniting Europe against communism and the injustices of Versailles, the Nazis would have fared much, much better.

Every alt-history scenario relies on the stereotype of Nazis (Nazis, not German leaders in general) were some highly competent people that built a system that worked like clockwork.
In reality, they were more incompetent than Soviets. A lot more incompetent.
German strength was their industry, relatively big population, highly educated and experienced officer corps. Nazis were a hindrance on the war effort. They prosecuted war far worse than Imperial Germany did.

Now which one is it?

Go back to 1936.

>Rome-Berlin axis is going to be hammered out properly.
>create a unified military command composed of German and Italian officers assigned by military committee
>tech will be completely shared between the two powers and armaments will be as interchangeable as possible (this might seem one way but it isn't, italian companies had very good fighter designs and their industry can alleviate strains on German supply if it didn't have to keep playing technological catch-up and was allowed to specialize)
>make a clause to let other nations and their military-industrial complex in as necessary
>standardize our militaries and organizations
>set our overall stategic goals and prepare our war effort accordingly
This alone would make the war a new beast and would likely make the Italian push into Greece and Egypt a whole different animal.

But other problems are with the state of Axis supply, especially concerning the Russian campaign. Things like multi guage trains and the like will probably have to be made.

Germany invaded Britain BY AIR DUMBASS

Both are right to an extent.

But if the Nazis had the foresight to focus on researching nuclear weapons properly, if they had not expelled some of their best physicists due to autism, if they had prepared for a long winter campaign, invaded the Soviet Union a bit earlier, with Hitler listening to his generals rather than dismissing their opinions, and treated the Slavs leniently - presenting themselves as liberators from communism rather than ethnic cleansers - they might have stood a chance. But again like I said these are huge IFs that basically involve Nazis not being Nazis.

Some say allying with the Soviet Union was another alternative but I disagree. Russia's larger population, industrial capacity and resource base made them destined to outperform Germany in the long run. The Germans were right in that they needed to backstab the Soviets before they would inevitably backstab them.

t. retard

>with Hitler listening to his generals rather than dismissing their opinions
This is sort of a meme, I'd say. Hitler did listen to his generals, he was convinced that the Luftwaffe could destroy the allies in Dunkirk alone, German generals themselves halted Panzer advances, too.
Hitler's choice of advancing into Crimea was a good idea, due to the fact that Crimea acted as an "Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier" for Russia. The reason for Crimea being important, excluding its soil, would be the fact that the VVS was in range of the Ploesti oil refinery. The USSR did a single sortie on Ploesti with the black sea fleet and managed to destroy 9,000 tons of oil.
Aside from that I don't know much, I heard that had he listened to his generals and advance to Moscow, the Commies would've simple pulled off a massive encirclement, not to mention you had the combat-hardened (and underrated) Khalkin Gol troops defending Moscow with Zhukov who had gained experience fighting Japs, too.

Berlin moscow axis becomes a thing, the reds and facists march the world over to overthrow the bougirse then stalin just as plans hitler and launches a suprise attack and wins.

>Hitler did listen to his generals, he was convinced that the Luftwaffe could destroy the allies in Dunkirk alone, German generals themselves halted Panzer advances, too.
That is different, I think. The panzer divisions were within range of Dunkirk but the German army was almost a day away in marching time, the panzers had overstretched themselves pushing very deep into French territory in a very narrow corridor and the Allies were trying to encircle them by cutting the supply lines (there were two major Allied assaults by the French and British into this supply line). The generals made a good call here, I think. The panzers needed time to regroup, and meet up with the bulk of the army to consolidate their gains.

>Hitler's choice of advancing into Crimea was a good idea, due to the fact that Crimea acted as an "Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier" for Russia. The reason for Crimea being important, excluding its soil, would be the fact that the VVS was in range of the Ploesti oil refinery.
Agreed, but by this point the main thrust on Barbarossa had already failed.

>I heard that had he listened to his generals and advance to Moscow, the Commies would've simple pulled off a massive encirclement, not to mention you had the combat-hardened (and underrated) Khalkin Gol troops defending Moscow with Zhukov who had gained experience fighting Japs, too.
I disagree, this was basically the main event I was alluding to. The ENTIRE German General Staff wanted to thrust into Moscow but Hitler overruled them. Army Group South could have dealt with Kiev alone, and Hitler's decision to derail Army Group Center gave the Russians critical time to finish preparing Moscow's defenses and redeploying their Siberian divisions.

part of me wonders what would've happened had the allies managed to do some kind of industrial sabotage on german hand-grenade production.

specifically german fuse production.

make the fuses defective and prone to burning far faster than intended,

but in such a manner where it was randomly distributed throughout a production batch so it bordered on impossible to test for.because unlike the mills bomb the german stick-grenades lack a sort of catch on the fuse.

...

>decision to derail Army Group Center gave the Russians critical time to finish preparing Moscow's defenses and redeploying their Siberian divisions.
It actually gave the Soviets time to throw dozens of divisions into the meat grinder with no results.
If they advanced on Moscow in September it would of been against much stronger Soviet defences than in November/December.
>Army Group South could have dealt with Kiev alone
Now you are trying to take two massive groupings of Soviet troops at the same time with half the resources.

Except for the fact that between October and November 1941 the Soviets organized eleven new armies that included 30 divisions of Siberian troops. During October and November 1941, over 1,000 tanks and 1,000 aircraft arrived along with the Siberian forces to assist in defending the city.* This delay was possible thanks to the detour forced on Army Group Center.

If the Germans had attacked Moscow earlier they'd have dealt with ill-prepared Soviet troops rather than Zhukov and his battle-hardened Khalkhin Gol units.

* Keegan, John (1989). The Second World War. New York: Viking.

>I'm fairly certain that wouldn't matter and the USA would still go against Germany
But would they if Britain surrendered?

>expelled "their" best scientists
This is ignoring the fact that both Oppenheimer and Teller gave secrets to Israel and both were communist sympathizers outwardly and undoubtedly supporters inwardly.

The Axis cannot win under any realistic scenario. The only possible way is if the British had a different PM that would accept Hitler's peace deals.

>defeat britain
How

No they were not, in order to launch a successful invasion they would have needed total air superiority and naval superiority. The Luftwaffe was roughly around the size of the RAF (this situation wouldn't have gotten better, the UK outproduced Germany and France combined). Therefore the Luftwaffe would have to magically hold off the RAF and the RN at once. This is impossible.

see Having a plan =/= Having the ability to execute said plan

Nice argument user

It's broad enough that Britain can fit battleships into it

You cannot land an invasion force on a heavily guarded and manned position by air. Paratroopers cannot singlehandedly capture places like a harbor on the British mainland.

>Don't invade Poland
>Play defense and let commies take over most of Europe
>Become Allies and create world coalition against soviets
>Invent Nukes first in arms race against commies
>Nuke Moscow and a couple other cities until they surrender
>1000yr German Empire

This is an argument for a strict persecution of communist spies and stronger counterintelligence, not an argument for the retarded blanket ban of Jews from academia that the Nazis implemented.

if the nazis dropped their racial ideology and simply rearmed ukrainians/belarussians/balts to fight against the soviets they probably could've knocked them out

You are forgetting the part where they were critically short of munitions.

>paratroopers can't just land on a heavily guarded shore

that's why Germany bombs London. Yes, the Axis lost the battle of Britain, but less than a tenth of British aircraft remained.

If Spain joined the axis, the UK would have surrendered.

kill every and capture every single british soldier on the coast of Dunkirk

Britain loses their stomach for any more

rek france

build defensive line for soviets

actually kill jews

>but less than a tenth of British aircraft remained.
Uh, do you know that the Brits were producing ~1100 fighter aircraft per month throughout the Battle of Britain?

Nuclear weapons without missiles aren't wonder weapons. they are planes waiting to get shot down.

Correction:

The British were making thousands of aircraft per month BEFORE the battle of Britain.

There is no way they could have used all of them in one battle, due to their relatively low manpower

Oh Easy.

>Don't declare war on Britain, lol
>Actually communicate with the Japanese. And if they surprise you with a sneaky move like Pearl Harbor, be pissed at them, don't join in against USA.
>Don't go for Moscow. Go straight to the Oil rich lands by Stalingrad. From here you have oil, you can now invade.
>Be kind to prisoners in East Europe. They would've joined against USSR if they were treated as humans.
>Don't spend resources on trying to destroy entire populations of civilians. That is so fucking stupid.
>Put women in the factories. Not allowing half of the population to work is also just dumb as hell.
>Basically Nazi beliefs have to be less insane.

From here you have peacetime, control of all Europe and chunk of Asia, and can do as you please.

And during that period they lost more than a million men (KIA and POW) in pointless counter attacks. Despite raiding 500+ divisions and equivalents in six months Soviet strength fell throughout 1941, and reached its lowest point in December-January.
The Siberian (a misnomer in itself) divisions saving Moscow is pretty out dated by the way.
>Zhukov
He had been chief on the General Staff during the early part of Barbarossa, he wasn't just hanging around in the east.
>and his battle-hardened Khalkhin Gol units.
Most units that took part in that battle were not transferred west (like the 36th MRD), while those that did (such as the 82nd MRD) were wiped out during Operation Mars (muh Zhukov).

They did put women in factories.

It would have taken months to actually take the city.

Hitler sends Speer to the United States, secretly. Speer then kidnaps FDR, kills him, and cuts his face off. Speer now wears FDR's face as a mask and impersonates FDR. He then declares war on the USSR while wearing FDR's face.

Hitler dosnt attack Russia

That's all he had to do.

barely. Nothing comparable to the level of work women performed in the United States or USSR.

kek

wouldn't she run into trouble being like 1/4th japanese

>Nuclear weapons without missiles aren't wonder weapons.

Yeah they are. One bomber can devastate an entire city.

Germany actually wanted Spain to stay out of the war so they wouldn't have another weakspot in their defenses.

>Very close

> - Introduce Speer's wartime economy in '39

Get overthrown because you put the people on 1500 calories a day without the imminent threat of 10 million soviets marching west with blood in their eyes.

wartime economy is not a magical "make the economy better" button, it's asking for great sacrifices from the people for a temporary boost to war-making capability. If you put people on 1500 calories a day for 5 years, they are going to start developing chronic problems.

> - Don't treat the occupied peoples like dogshit, but start recruiting armies from them and give them as much freedom as possible (so that they still help Germany & Italy)

Then Germany starves, because 50% of the farmers were drafted into the Wehrmacht. Without slave labor making up the difference, Germany's agricultural output craters. Pre-war Germany was also not food independent, and needed to import both food and fertilizers to feed itself. So you either enslave the conquered peoples to make up for the loss in the agricultural labor pool, or you seize their food to feed Germans. OTL Germany did both and still implemented a 2000 calorie ration. If you do either of those thing, say hello the partisans fucking your shit up.

> - Always interrupt British shipping with submarines

You are going to sink countless American ships this way, and drag the US into the war.

> - Accept the request of the USSR to join the Axis

The moment the USSR joins the Axis is the day the US joins the Allies. The US wasn't isolationist to the point that Fascists and Communists joining forces is not a reason for concern. Then consider that without the Nazi atrocities, Stalin's support among the people is much shakier.

But they had a much greater proportion of women in the workforce than Britain or the US.
And there was a large increase in absolute numbers also, by shifting women from the consumer goods to the producer goods industry. Many in the consumer goods industry worked on war orders also.

>citation needed

Also, Franco even demanded a battleship to join

Your point?

Make USA join the Axis. There was a plot to overthrow Roosevelt and install a fascist dictatorship once. It was short-lived and incredibly unsuccessful, but had it gone through with political support from Germany and Italy, suddenly the germans and Italian helped the new leaders get into power and they're looking to repay their friends. It could have made USA change allegiance completely. Now all those lend-lease battleships and tanks would go to Germany and Italy instead of Russia and Britain. Japan would have free use of airbases and harbors in the Philippines and other US holdings to launch attacks from, and access to cheap US oil mined from Texas. And this is without USA even joining the war as a combatant! If USA becomes an actual combatant on the Axis things get crazy very quickly. North American front for the war opens up. Canada gets steamrolled quickly but probably lingers on as guerilla fighters out in the woods coming in to sabotage occupation forces at night. They'd do stuff like blow up bridges and set coal mines on fire to try and slow their enemies down. US troops would be landing on a D-Day style invasions in Ireland and Wales instead of Normandy to finish off the weakened Brits, and the large US navy would be attacking British and French colonies.

Also, as long as we're in magical fantasyland, we'll cut Japan a break and say Mao got a foot infection and died, leaving China disorganized and unmotivated without him.

Franco made demands Hitler couldn't possibly adhere to without losing Vichy France's support, he had no intention of joining in the first place
Using river barges to invade Britain is a really bad idea?

Wow 2.7 million female workers out of a population of 81 million.

America put half a million women into making airplanes alone. The amount of women in the workforce hit 25 million in 1945.