Any gain to the industiralization of agriculture?

Why do """""christians""""" on this board spend so much time bickering about denominational minutia instead of actually acting Christ-like?

>debate is bad! be stupid and passive! accept your murderous extraextraextragrandejumbosupersize serving of low-quality meat that is 90% animal biproduct filling! its a reliable source of protean! make sure to wash it down with a Coca Cola(tm) which is sweetened with (high fructose) corn (syrup)! that means fiber!

I haven't eaten meat for years user.

If you're then I agree with just about your entire post, but you must understand that most christians don't give a shit about where there food comes from, especially the really retarded deus vult types you find on this site

The answer is... i have to? that is the point of the counter argument?

there are other ways to get it. not to mention localized farming can be managed to provide enough meat to feed the localized area

I haven't even thought about using foreign policy in the argument. do you have any links or references i could procure?

i do appreciate the reccomendation, ill look into it. the premise seems a bit broad but with ogle covering both local farming and agribuisness from historical and economical standpoints is a definite turn-on

Can we save religious debates for another post? just would be sad if this post derails

one could make an argument that the higher yield per acre is the main driving force that allowed us to transition from an agricultural society to an industrialised society

as soon as one farm was able to produce enough food for thousands of people (instead of mere dozens) it freed up those thousands of people to go work elsewhere

dude & Humanities lmao

Again, proddies aren't Christians. They're cultural cultists. They worship Americanism, and to them a key aspect of Americanism is a certain proddyness.
You may as well call Peterson suckoffs 'christian' because they like the idea of it and think it will do something like 'save muh white civilizashun from teh mudslimes!!!'
Fuck.

If this helps you, as somebody who knows people with a farm, the chicken that are let free to roam in the farm, move, etc produce better eggs and chicken meat than those kept inside a cubicle where they don't move and just pop eggs out. The animals do get stressed and that genuinely affects the product.

Industrialization IMO sin't bad per se in the sense that helps the production, but the way it's done is what should be revised. Maybe looking for other ways to manage the animals and the production processes

>I haven't even thought about using foreign policy in the argument. do you have any links or references i could procure?
jstor.org/stable/1173726?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

You could also google 'food foreign policy' or 'geopolitics of food'. Lester R. Brown did a lot of writing on food security and geopolitics so look him up too. A historical event that you can look into is "The Great Grain Robbery"

genius!
the first part i was lost, but suggesting a revision to the production process is a great idea

Thanks! on the google now!

One last thing you should look for is what USAID does. Food For Peace is one thing is one thing they do and it isn't possible without subsidized industrial food production.

this is gold. A strong solid third point that puts the food production industry into the limelight!

I am a land development manager (tractor boss) for an 11,000 acre organic alfalfa farm. Here's what I've come to.

There is no progress (gains or benefits) in society period. Industrialized farming requires an insane amount of energy input to produce anything.
-first we need to devolope the land
-we need giant tractors and bulldozers
-we need factories to build these tractors
-we need refined material for these factories
-we need differant factories to refine the raw material
-we need to mine the raw material
-we need more factories to build equipment for mining
-all these steps require petrol
-oil must be mined and processed
-more factories for petrol equipment

So if you take all the energy and converted it to manpower the same job can be done with a few thousand guys and iron age implements.

>cheaper cost of production
The significance of this point really can't be overstated.

As recently as the mid 19th century, hunger was the main constraint on population growth even in developed western countries. A large portion of people were in very real danger of starving to death, and food security was one of their chief concerns in life. At the same time, between 50% and 70% of the population were involved in food production.

Today, food production has increased to the point that availability of food is essentially a non-issue for developed countries, while the portion of their populations working on farms is now less than 3%. This means that the majority of living people have now been freed up for other occupations, which is largely responsible for the massive technological advancement during the last century.

Who says their occupations (minimum wage slave) are more fulfilling than working the land, hunting, and trapping. I'd argue it's not and all the "advancement" really doesn't benefit society as a whole. So their are less hungry people, there are also more gluttonous lard-asses equally as detrimental to society.

Even though industry farming requires insane amounts of energy, it can be argued the money and property businesses "gain" from advertising, transportation, fast food/restaurants, job production, and etc. keeps the economy afloat
Also, the equipment, land, and jobs can be considered "gains" for the businesses or farmers

I do not agree with industry farming, but the point of the assignment is to essentially slander or piece apart localized/organic farming.

having the work force shift into other fields or technological innovations as a direct effect are definitely points i did not think of!

and its just a class assignment, i have to take the mindset of an advocate of industrial agriculture. "wage-slaves" are not something i would care about, nor their happiness. (though ethically i believe happiness, fulfillment, and passion should be a major backbone in ones occupation)

also, the wage slaves are not required to work the farm but could still find an occupation where working the land, hunting, or trapping can still be feasible. (i.e. researching different species would allow one a hands on approach to the land. collecting different insect species also hunt and/or trap these species because most c.a.f.o.s focus on fish, cow, pig, and chicken rather than deer, veil, or moose ;) )

ITT: people that were never hungry and get their food from a fridge in a supermarket after discussing the morality of killing things for food
ITT: Vegetarians/vegans pretending agriculture isn't one of the largest factors in deforestation and denial of living space to massive amounts of animals and they're all feely goody cause they don't eat meat

Just imagine how many animals you'd save if you killed yourself!

Tbh factory grown meat is immoral, you should only eat meat that you have either grown or hunted yourself.
>inb4 dozen butthurt cityfags screaming how they totally are entitled to eat meat

lol. dude. go to any farm at harvest once and the value of industrialized farming will become immediately apparent.

the yield for potatoes is TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS per acre. There are enough acres of farmable land in America for every citizen to claim at least TWO acres EACH. Or 40,000 pounds of potatoes PER YEAR PER PERSON.

So the argument for the industrialization of agriculture is that it solves world hunger.

The rub is that meat production is not anywhere near as efficient. It sucks up farm land. Wastes calories at a rate of a bazzillion to one. And is almost certainly a net drag on efficiency.

Industrial agriculture = amazing
Industrial meat production = probably should start to be phased out.

>organic alfalfa farm
please fuck off and die. drive your prius down the street to a corn or potatoe farm and check out the yields. Alfalfa, like meat, should be rare and expensive. Its a luxury.

That will work great for the two weeks before you deplete all the game in the forest and then we're just back at certain people doing industrial farming so you personally don't have to.

>pros
Food security
Cheaper food
Frees up labor for other industry

>cons
Unethical (cruelty/inhumane conditions)
Harmful to planet (or rather to Human/animal survival due to methane that animals produce in large quantity, large quantity of ground water wasted, soil thats eroded, etc)

Can't wait for "artificial"(either fake meat or meat without killing animal/lab grown meat) meat industry to start spinning

when profit is the major and sometimes only measure you are bound to have quality problem

the gain is obviously to feed ppl
but we are having a worldwide overpopulation problem, its not going to be sustainable

Makes meat cheaper thats the gain. The nutrition value of it goes down because of shitty grain and legume based feed but the taste remains the same which is what most consumers care about. So more people can afford meat which in terms of quality of life is nice I mean I like eating meat, and affording to eat meat even tho im a student.

I will take genuine pleasure when the upcoming collapse destroyes the cancerous post-industrial lifestyle of the West.

Does anyone here know anything about topsoil? I keep reading how we are destroying it at a huge pace (30% of the world's soil in 50 years is the number I see thrown around) and that it takes hundreds of years for an inch of soil to grow.
This sounds apocalyptically bad, but is it really? Noone seems to care so how much are those headlines overreacting?

you're actively making this board worse. This is one of the best threads right now, or would be whitout the christian guys going ape about who knows what

reminder that the meat industry needs more farmland than agriculture by a huge amount. Your meat eats way more plants than you do.

>which will eventually lead to the extinction of humanity!
That's a good thing though. The less humans there are the less suffering there is.

Only a complete tard would say that a factory farmed pig is healthier than a one who doesn't sleep and roll around in its own shit. I dont care about eating meat but it doesnt sit well in me the conditions that the animals are brought up in.

Unfortunately meat is tasty and most people probably cant really tell much of a difference in taste between organic/factory farmed. But certainly will in $$$.

My personal opinion is that a juicy burger or steak is something to be enjoyed and looked forward to a few times a month. Certainly not several times a week, and while people should enjoy their life the long term health implications are fucking dire.

It is simple really.

Before, we needed 90% of people to be farmer, now it is 5%. The industrialisation of agriculture allowed a large part of the workforce to go to the factories and the mins, opening the door to industrialisation at all.

>Population grow
>Hurr towns are larger
>Durrr consuption is up
You will be please to know that India and east Asia is more than half of the world population and by 2100, there will be 4 billions niggers. The problem is not the west and with the collapse of the est, the western values, such as human rights or humanitarian help will also stop to exist.

Stop projecting
>implying I haven't gone hungry for weeks at a time
>implying i don't source all my meat from farmgate sources, and haven't taken place even in the slaughter of a few
>implying the issue isn't industrial agriculture which creates a bunch of trash (oil, corn syrup, etc) to satiate fat fuck Burgers like yourself
It doesn't solve world hunger, though. It also creates a garbage product which people are inclined to waste.
Delusional industrialist

No you silly industrialistcuck, the emat does not taste the same.
'organic' beef costs about 150% what cheap beef costs, more for certain cuts. Stop eating fucking cheeseburgers everyday

>noone seems to care
Go read a book on the subject you stupid fuck.
>FUCKING CHRISTIANS REEEE STOP TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO BE INDUSTRIALIST RAPISTS REEEEEEEEE TENDIEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!
Go fuck yourself again, Olaf.

My point:
Stop eating so much fucking meat. You don't need a fucking dozen cheeseburgers everyday. Red meat is awful for you in popular quantities, but not so in small portions.
That is all that needs to be done, you fat fuck Burgercucks need to stop eating a dozen fucking cheeseburgers a day.

Alfalfa is fucking animal fodder you fucking urban scum, enjoy your traffic and 3,000 dollar a month 100 sq ft apartment

What a retarded question. Industrialized agriculture has caused the greatest increase in human living conditions in history, reducing food prices drastically to such an extent that society was completely transformed. You'd might as well ask "what were living conditions like for the average person before the 19th century?"

>It doesn't solve world hunger, though.
Oh but it absolutely does. The stupendous increase in supply caused by industrialized agriculture is what finally ended famine in regions in which it was implemented. The current problem of hunger is confined mainly to regions where industrialization of agriculture hasn't yet taken place. Hunger in first world countries is solved well enough by welfare programs and charity because there are enough resources left over and food is cheap enough. There's even enough surplus to feed the third world; the current problem is one of distribution and waste because supply is no longer an issue.

What you're proposing will never happen because most people can't afford to pay twice as much or more for their food. I do agree that people should limit their meat consumption though.

It has its flaws in areas like sustainability and economic structure, but it's more productive and efficient than old fashioned methods like hoe farming.
t. someone who has worked on a collective garden/farm

>we are having a worldwide overpopulation problem
Not true

Get a load of this retard.

Why do you shitpost in a thread about Ag when you know nothing about it?

Organic alfalfa = organic dairy/beef products
You can't have organic meat and milk without feeding organic feed.

the ideal solution is vat-grown meat.

I'm a vegetarian though. I just straight up don't know why you were talking about religion.

>twice as much
EAT LESS MEAT
Grow more fucking beans, industrial agriculture does not produce food as we eat it, it produces, for the most part, junk that goes into extraneous foods like sodas and whatever else they can turn corn into.

It's called rhetoric.

Really glad to see so much response guys!
Passed out for a little bit and had a super long day, should be popping back in and out when able ^-^

i live in an agriculture based state and have seen harvest season. Even though we can produce so much produce, the same could be achieved with MULTIPLE localized farms.
Though touching on our ability to "solve world hunger" might definitely sway the crowd if my opposing side neglects to touch on that part first.

What do you mean by food security?
also last i heard the first articfial meat patty cost like $300k to make and like 2 years?

the debate can be as long as 5-15 mins depending on my opponents arguments, and localized farming reeeeeallly has a lot of plus sides.

really do enjoy the tardbomb you fuck hat >..>
I cant really argue "What-if's and hypothetical-ls in a debate. I needed solid foundation to step from. Thought agriculture may have played a major factor in the jump from the 19th to 21st century there were many other key factors too. Wars, Technology development, and even alien involvement if we want to consider "what-ifs"

more like highly unnecessary.

>unnecessary
Not at all. To counter popular rhetoric, I must employ my technique of apopular rhetoric.

views on religion literally has nothing to do with being able to counter argue localized farming; highly unnecessary

There’s a 15 minute vice weekly episode about this, season four episode five (the torrent should say Vice s04e05). Industrialization wrought havoc upon property because no one has figured out a competent way to dispose of the waste— farms just pour bile into custom lakes that then saturate local rivers and make them contaminated. They did this drone shot and showed pretty much every farm for miles having an accompanying brown waste lake. Shit was pretty fucked

You can go pretty deep with it I’m sure, given America’s massive meat industry. The vice episode talks about that too. Biodiversity’s gotta be getting pretty shit

Edgy comment but true

Wrong, you just only understand very simple rhetoric.

does your rethoric even work when the only thing it manages to achieve is people pointing out how out of place it is?

I misread your post

There is no difference between "organic" and "industrial" farming as you can have a big Ag industrialized organic farm. The word your looking for is contemporary farming VS organic farming. If you would like the differences between those I'd be happy to explain.

I'm
We are big Ag with an organic certification.

>pic related is me

>by 2100, there will be 4 billions niggers
Glad I'd be dead before niggrocalypse

dude, thanks for the insight. Contemporary farming might just be what i was looking for.
From what i see, it is just maximizing the yield without necessarily using chemicals or pesticides?

please do proliferate more :)
because from an outside perspective it LOOKS like there would be a lot of room for error (i.e. adding chemicals to the water or the maintenance of the crops)

what defines that you are "organic" is there someone that has to come do an inspection like a health inspector?

OP here and i am black.
FYI it has already begun...
We are already contaminating your womens with our seed and turning the other population into cucks

Do you have any advice for someone interested in getting into agriculture? I.e. What to focus on in school, should I look into internships/apprenticeships, etc.