Polish Lithunia Commonwelth

Reminder Poland voluntarily gave away Prussia

Was it inevitable? Why didn't they annex it?
In fact, what kind of people lived in prussia? I mean they were originally balts, but the back in early XIII century the germans came to create the teutonic order and convert the region, but did the main population become german as well? Or was it still mostly balts + some germans ruling over?

Looked something like pic related.

Yes, VIVAT SERENISSIMA RES PUBLICA POLONIAE!
youtube.com/watch?v=aH8FNChzwxc

>protestant poles
now that's rare.
But then was this whole region German back in 1525? Why didn't Poland at least take the Polish majority regions?

Unstable garbage alike Austro-Hungarian Empire.

>Poles and Prussians
Poles were Prussians as well >they are considered underdogs and generally overrated.
This is an oxymoron...
Top kek.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig_(Gdańsk)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig_(Gdańsk)#Massacre_records
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig_(Gdańsk)#Destruction_of_the_town

...

Hello Polish PIDF diaspora in Sweden. Please return to Poland.

> defends himself
> hello *IDF pls leave
unironically kys

He literally devotes his entire day to glorifying Poland on /pol/ and occasionally /int/ and Veeky Forums

>diaspora in Sweden.
Literally WHAT?

Poland controlled the Catholic portion but not the protestant.

Poland creating (Ducal) Prussia in 1525 as its vassal was one of its greatest mistakes...
>The Prussian Homage (by Jan Matejko, 1882, National Museum, Kraków): Albert receives eastern Prussia as a fief from King Sigismund I of Poland in 1525.

It's like a manifest middle finger to Russia from Germany. Why the fuck would you take that away?

But those are just invisible ethnic borders anyway.

So what? It's not like Poland or Lithuania had nations at that point.

What is this map? Lithuanians aren't Protestant, they are overwhelmingly Catholic.

The misstake was Poland allowing it to be inherited by the prince elector of Brandenburg instead of annexing it themselves
The biggest misstake was never bothering to build a navy

You just admitted to going to /int/. Please leave and never consider coming back.

>It's not like Poland or Lithuania had nations at that point.
You're retarded?

-.-
youtube.com/watch?v=Fkr-U2yvYO4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation

>The misstake was Poland allowing it to be inherited by the prince elector of Brandenburg instead of annexing it themselves
That too.
>The biggest misstake was never bothering to build a navy
Nah the biggest mistake was splitting Poland into five areas for your sons so they "wouldn't" fight each other for the throne. Only followed by inviting the Teutons to Masovia.

>The misstake was Poland allowing it to be inherited by the prince elector of Brandenburg instead of annexing it themselves
That too.
>The biggest misstake was never bothering to build a navy
Nah the biggest mistake was splitting Poland into six areas for your sons so they "wouldn't" fight each other for the throne. Only followed by inviting the Teutons to Masovia.

East Prussia as shown in that earlier pic was built on the Partitions of Poland, the point in time where the Commonwealth was divvied up between Prussia, Russia and Austria. They literally had no other choice of nation beyons Prussia or Russia, save for somehow managing to hop a boat to Sweden.

I will have to disagree and say it really was the navy. A strong navy would mean no deluge and everything that followed it. Unlike the deluge Poland actually recovered from being split into pieces.

>A strong navy would mean no deluge and everything that followed it.
The Swedes weren't the ones who started the Deluge but the cossacks and Russians. It had nothing to do with the navy.
>Unlike the deluge Poland actually recovered from being split into pieces.
Without Western Pomerania and Silesia.

>Everyone who defends Poland on few boards is the very one and same person!
It's called paranoia.

>Danzig
Fucking triggered

>The Swedes weren't the ones who started the Deluge but the cossacks and Russians
This. Cossacks did overwhelming majority of the job. All the Swedes had to do, is to not to chimp out, and PLC would end in union under Sweden. But ooogaboogism won, and Swedes started looting their own allies and Poland.

He already admitted he browses /pol/ isn't your observation kind of redundant?

Wrong. He posts the exact same images and links every single time, often with the same comments.

I'll go back when the "Polish" Swede fucks off.

To be fair it unironically sounds like butthurt. If he uses each time the very same arguments, it should be easy to counter them. But I guess it's easier to call him eternal SwePol.

Still wasn't it the Swede who did the worst damage to Poland and struck at it's richest parts?

I'm not really butthurt, all I did was ask him to return to his home country before I started getting told to kill myself.

It may not seem like it, but I genuinely care for this guy's wellbeing. Clearly in his mind Poland is the greatest country in the world, and so I feel sorry for him having to suffer living in Sweden.

Pure butthurt, oh yeah, let it flow through you.
But that wouldn't have happened if not for the Chmielnicki and his cossack uprising and asking Russia to intervene + the Radziwills asking Sweden to take advantage of the situation and intervene as well.
>Clearly in his mind Poland is the greatest country in the world,
I have actually never claimed that, so don't strawman me mister.

Bump.

Yeah, bamp.

youtube.com/watch?v=F-I_bi1J11Y

You could blame that on nobles deciding to dethrone Bolesław the Bold and placing Władysław Herman on the throne, who was clearly incapable of being a competent king.

polish nobles were already against taxation that would go into standing army
there was no money for navy, nor for maintaining it
look at Russia, Peter the great first had build an great standing army and only then he started focusing on navy

Every problem of PLC can be traced back to death of last jagiellon who despite having no heir didn't give any instructions on how to act upon his death which was followed by introduction of weird system that wasn't terrible right away but had flaws that needed to be fixed.
It worked fine first thanks to based Bathory and semi meritocracy around middle class centred politics but after deluge the politics shifted heavily as middle class started to decline in favour of oligarchy where the "anarchy" would start to begin which was a point of no return as a country basically became a playground for rich families that opposed every kind of reform. The fact that the economy was heavily dependable on grain prices didn't help either when the west started to diversify their goods thanks to plants from new world. Also Vasa kings were shit tier who had a lot of authority but because they ruled so poorly they made the entire country allergic to any kind of monarch with lot of power which means there was no reformer like Peter the great in case of Russia (Sobieski tried that, but he came too late and the entire conflict with Turkey took to much of his focus).

proof that Veeky Forums is full of poles and eastern euros pretending they can ever amount to anything and hence all the hate against Germany

>Using same colours for different ethnic groups on that pie chart
fucking why

>let's have a thread about a thing
>clearly Veeky Forums must be inundated by people who are fans of the thing, to the detriment of a thing I like

No.

The Commonwealth FUCKING SUCKED, you pretty much have to be a polack to like it

>tfw "swedish empire" was just them larping around the ruins of someone elses empire

Most empires rose through the ashes of another empire, you dipshit

But I am literally referring to that one coastal region of this empire. At a certain point there's gotta be a cutoff, just anybody can't be an empire.

The Commonwealth wasn't more of an empire than the Swedish empire

Except for bigger wealth and superior culture.

And Sweden had a much more superior army
>superior culture
haha no

>haha no
Swedish culture was non-existant compared to PLC.
>superior army
?

>steals territory from country already gangbanged on all sides
>gets btfo by Russia
>muh superior army

>Swedish culture was non-existant compared to PLC.
Not during the Swedish glory days which is what the swedish empire term is refering to
>?
Really? The Swedish army was fucking unbeatable throughout the 17th century which it proved more than well against PLC

>Really? The Swedish army was fucking unbeatable throughout the 17th century which it proved more than well against PLC
It wasn't. And you got beaten by fucking monks.

>>steals territory from country already gangbanged on all sides
Ingria and Kexholm were taken from Russia when it was completely gangbanged in the time of troubles but those territories became the poorest in Sweden. The other territories were won fair and square. Poland got gangbanged in the deluge but Sweden got no territories out of that war.
>>gets btfo by Russia
The Great Northern War was far more than just that.

Who gives a shit about a tiny skirmish?

Sweden had court culture, but aside from important centers, a bumfuck countryside. PLC had important cities along river routes that connected two seas, and agriculture to support a massive population. Sweden on the other hand was only ever as important as its military dynasty. All of swedish history is literally "remember that one time we had leadership?"

>had court culture, but aside from important centers, a bumfuck countryside
This is literally every fucking country in the world in the 17th century.

>Poland got gangbanged in the deluge but Sweden got no territories out of that war.

The strategic value of removing a major player exceeds that of physical land.

The post i responded to specifically said territories

This is where you learn one of the benefits of being a commonwealth. Without a strong monarchy, culture resided in regional capitols, many times over.

Sweden is like a tv that only gets one channel and one show. It's a really good show. But PLC has like 27 different channels, in different languages, and tons of shows and multiple time zones extend primetime..

They parley strategic advantage to gain territory, what else would they be using it for? Free tacos?

PLC sounds alot like the "holy" "roman" "empire"

They never actually used that strategical advantage to gain territories though

sucks to suck

but seriously, livonia

What about it? It was gained before the deluge, the poles just didn't recognize it before that just like they didn't recognize the loss of the swedish crown.

>doesn't recognize claim
>suddenly murdered from all sides
>sweden clean conscience

the plot thickens. Please implicate your self more, gustav.

Thank God Poland won that war in the end. ;)

lel no
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Oliva
The treaty that ended the war, nothing was actually granted to Poland.

And killed 75% of the Swedish army, which then signed a peace Treaty of Oliva like the beaten cucks they were saying they must return everything they've stolen.

You fucking retared. I swear to God we should just have massacred the remaining rest 10,000 Swedish soldiers and not let them return to Sweden. GIVE BACK OUR STUFF AS IT STATES IN THE REATY OF OLIVA!

the deluge was largely a dynastic struggle since the monarchs were cousins and both swedes and poles fought for both sides. i cant see any way that the local poles would have come out victorious

>we
>our
go back to /int/ you underage larper

It was only a formality and was technically a return to the status quo so it can still not be considered a polish victory

>Promise to return what you have stolen
>"It was just a formality lol"

Swedegypsies everyone

>It was only a formality
GIVE BACK OUR STUFF LOOSER!

Are you serious? The swedish casualties are NOTHING compared to the absolutely huge polish casualties so you can't really brag about it.

Make me, faggot

Poland was attacked simultaneously by cossack rebells (40,000) and later their help Russians (50,000), followed up by Transylvanians, Moldavians and Wallachians (35,000), ONLY THEN Swedes (40,000) joined together with Brandenburg-Prussians (16,000) and private Radziwill traitor army. All in all, Poland was simultaneously attacked by 8 ENEMY ARMIES WITH A RATIO OF 4 AGAINST 1 but managed to defeat them in the end and kick them out against all odds. No shit they will be casualties, it was a clusterfucking nightmare for Poland. Tell me how many countries would have survived that?

>poles and Lithuanians
>protestant
Nice try Jews

Lol you lost 75% of your army despite you and your allies massively outnumbering them.

Sure you also slaughtered alot of civilians like the niggers you are but that's hardly anything to be proud of.

there is really no difference between pr*testants and jews

>Tell me how many countries would have survived that?
Ever heard of the Great Northern War?

But that was a loss, even if Sweden did well in the first 9 years. You would be better off referring to Gustav II Adolf inherting a triple war and winning it all, gaining important territory, or maybe mentioning that during the Second Northern War Sweden was also at war with Russia and Denmark and various German states such as Brandenburg.

Ignorant much?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation
youtube.com/watch?v=Fkr-U2yvYO4

Like mentioning the Deluge is them being proud of being white niggers killing civilians and stealing cultural shit on mass on mostly unprotected areas while the bulk of the Polish army fought mostly against the cossack rebells and Russians in south-eastern Poland aka Ukraine in the beginning. When Polish armies defeated the cossacks and halted the Russians and made a short ceasefire with them and could start focusing on the Swedish pillaging in the north, the Swedes started to lose and getting BTFO'd until the Treaty of Oliva was signed. Legally Sweden was and technically still is obliged to give back all the stolen Polish stuff.

>But that was a loss
The Deluge was a loss too...
>You would be better off referring to Gustav II Adolf inherting a triple war
>Second Northern War
Neither was as epic as the GNW and those armies relied heavily on foreign merceneries. The carolean army on the other hand was almost completely recruited from within the country.