China and Rome

t.Kung Pao

>If we applied the same level of dishonesty to European history
But you did.

>we would say that the Trojans, Greeks, Byzantines, Germans, French, British and Russians were all 'dynasties' of Rome.
But some of them really were such as Trojans, Byzantines and Russians. The rest are not. Moron.

Byzantines were Roman, but Trojans and Russians is stretching it. Even Charlemagne has a stronger claim.

The Trojans didn't even exist.
The Byzantines are a matter of semantics.
The Russians have nothing to do with Rome.

At least the French and British are culturally and genetically descendant from actual Romans.

Romans claimed they're descendants of Trojan refugees. As for Russians, that's more debatable, but they inherited ERE royal blood and their religions.

>At least the French and British are culturally and genetically descendant from actual Romans.
Lol

Germanics that raped and destroyed claiming to be romans and celtics

Why you people do this?

You arent roman nor you arent celtic, your ancestor and history is germanic, GTFO, savage pig

Such dishonesty, geeze.

This. Rome broke apart into petty kingdom/states and never recovered while china manages to reunify everytime and managed to assimilate other into a single unified han culture in scale of lands bigger than europe

There is a reason china still exist while rome doesnt

We Wuz Romans N Shiet

are you implying that the Tang were not a successor state to the Han?

I want you to elaborate this claim.

Were the Ottomans a successor state to the ERE? because the Tang was founded by Turks.

>Germanics that raped and destroyed
Also created the fucking industrial revolution. The British defeated the Chinese twice in the 19th century, in their own country, from the other side of the world, using rifles and steamships that they developed themselves.
We created the modern world and you people need to cling to the remnants of a long dead empire to feel relevant.

So, before 1918, who was the legit successor to the Roman Empire?
>Austria-Hungary
>Russia
>the Ottoman Empire
>Imperial Germany
>the British Empire
>Kingdom of Italy
>France

Did the Ottomans identity themselves as Romans? Did the Ottomans use/speak the same language as Romans? Did the Ottomans have the same government structure as the Romans?

Rome continues in all the Romance countries, just as China continues in all the Sino counties.

>turks

????
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Gaozu_of_Tang

WE WUZ TURKS N SHIET

>Did the Ottomans identity themselves as Romans?
AYO HOL UP

None of the above. "successor to the Roman Empire" is a bullshit concept invented by insecure nationalists.

His mother was a Turkic Xianbei

>Mao's China is still the same china
And Mussoline was the heir of Rome right

Kublai Khan and the Mongol elite weren't so good at Chinese but that didn't stop the Yuan from being accepted as a legitimate dynasty and successor to the Song instead of just a Mongol khanate that swallowed up China.

>monarchist france and revolutionary france are not france
Okay user

JFYI, the stone wall was built under Ming dynasty ~1400 years after the Colliseum.

If anything, Taiwan would be old China

>itt buttblasted romeboos

Rome is overrated desu

Yuan adopted Chinese language. They adopted Chinese religions like Taoism and Buddhism. Kublai himself became a Buddhist and had Taoist ministers. Mongols used the same old Chinese government. They used the same Mandate of Heaven. They even used laws concocted during the Tang/Song dynasty and modified parts of it. Even the law making process and policy enactment process is same from the Sui/Tang era. They clothed themselves like Chinese, had Chinese brides and names.

By all means, they were a Chinese dynasty. But they also lead a dual-life as Mongol khans. This allowed them power over mongols in mongolia and mongols in other parts of the world who still did business with mongolia/China

> Rome broke apart into petty kingdom/states and never recovered while china manages to reunify everytime and managed to assimilate other into a single unified han culture in scale of lands bigger than europe

That's cute, meanwhile Europeans and their descendant states in America subjugated and conquered the entire world

Imo that ain't something to be proud of.
Just shows how barbaric and warmongering westerners are

Romes grandeur is only matched by its art. No other country on earth has ever made art at the level, and quantity as the greco-romans

to not wage war is to surrender your country to invaders. Just like the chinese do every couple hundred years.

>I know nothing about Chinese history
We know user

It's like saying Chinese has something to do with Mongols conquering the Eurasia.
>Roman art
You mean Greek art Romans appropriated?
>greco-romans
This meme has to stop, Romans and Greeks are different people, and Romans have nothing to do with the achievements of Greeks, they're parasites.

HOL UP
*Gets invaded by Tang*
YO BE SAYIN?
*Clan gets killed off*
WE WUZ
*Tang troops stationed*
IF HERD YOU RIGHT
*Anxi protectorate established*
WANGS'N SHIET?

And Mehmed II's mother was probably slavic, what is your point?

>Western powers colonize the world
>bombarded by third world migrants from former colonies that demographically displace the indigenous population
What did the Westerner mean by this?

even death may die in strange times. But what is dead may never die, and the fires of Rome still spark embers in everyman's hearts. Soon the fires of America will spark the trees of teh earth and bring the marble of old back to this Planet.

Whatever you say user
>le 56% face

>0% white
>100% rice-picking shit-eating bitches who get conquered and forsaked their religion to convert to western atheism

>appropriated
are you saying that they didn't make their works of art liek the aeneid, the marble sculptures like that of their emperors? Theres a concept called an education, which naturally teaches the same things to everyone, basically. On top of that Romans were legendary warriors who migrated from Troy, which was a greek city-state.

>lord invades you city
>razes it to the ground as an example to the other lords
>murders millions to call himself Emperor
I could quote the humilitaions china pernially suffers, but theres a reason they couldn't historically conquer anyone besides each other.

> Romans were legendary warriors who migrated from Troy
> which was a greek city-state.
Oh my, it's Imperator Julius Caesar Augustus himself.

Virgil came on the behalf of Great Hektor once, your country went through a genocide because of it.

This is easilly the shittiest thread on the board right now.

Lel sure user.
I'm sure reclaiming the glories of Rome/America by shitposting on an underwater anime basketweaving forum at 2:00 am in the morning is the best way of achieving your goals of reviving America's past glory.
Keep on LARPing user

>im a radical centrist

>go do it then
I am. And Veeky Forums is honestly somewhat roman in culture

> but theres a reason they couldn't historically conquer anyone besides each other.

sure you do, is that the same reason everytime chinese people get 'conquered' they ended up bigger than before?

they colonized untamed jungles over hundreds of years.

Not as large as the Qing.

And I think you're somewhat deluded/deranged/ or some mix of the two. Keep on shitposting for America user
Someone's gotta do it

>he is a madman!
okay user. Enjoy living in 'China'. The ghettoest dynasty of all time.

>untamed jungles
Yeah...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue

In summery China is better if you take it a face value, but Rome is better if you include all the countries that have ever claimed to be the "successor to the Roman Empire".

The sun dynasty literally colonized lands along their rivers which how they commanded so much territorry during the three-kingdoms.

China hasn't made as many contributions to Art and philosophy as The greco-romans. Since we're comparing entire cultures and whatnot.

So "WE WUZ" is effective strategy?

China has been much more civilized than Europe historically and still holds a massive amount of sway compared to the main 5 you posted.

>more effective government
>more organized bureaucracy
>more sophisticated culture
The Han had imperial schools (Taixue) that taught people governance and scholarship, who later went on to become the bureaucrats of China. Much superior than the Cursus Honorum of Rome.

>better architecture
This was clearly the Romans, they invented cement. Their buildings were superior to all ancient and medieval civilizations because of it.

>better quality of life for citizens
Only Rome had citizens, which were a minority of the population with special privileges. While Han China had subjects.
Rome had slavery, but the slaves could become full-fledged citizens. Han China had convict labor which were treated like expendable work units. The mass graves next to the various imperial graves attests to this.

The quality of life for the average "free man" was probably best in Rome with all it's public amenities like baths, gymnasiums etc.

>more influence on neighbors
Clearly Han China. Rome didn't influence Parthia and Sassanid Persia that much, while Vietnam, Korea and Japan are all copycats of China with their own Taixue etc.

>more enduring legacy
Only Rome has a legacy, Han China still exist.

>serfs, wizards, demagouges, murderous prophets, priests who speak in riddles, whores on throne chairs, foot-binding
i disagree user middle-ages europe was bade, but not China bad/
>Sway
China is universally despised

>face value
>China literally still exist till today whereas Rome is not
Really makes you think....

Why is thread so obsessed with the legacy and hasn't addressed any of OP's points about effective government, organised bureaucracy, architecture, quality of life, geopolitical influence, and sophistication?

>China hasn't made as many contributions to Art and philosophy as The greco-romans
They do in East Asia. Weebs' favorite "Japanese art and philosophy" are largely base on them.

Sorry the correct word is sophisticated. The big five Western nations (Britain, France, Germany, Spain/Portugal and Russia) have only reached power that could compete with China's in the past few centuries where they then again lost it all soon enough. Even now Germany is the only country that really holds sway.

Meanwhile China's fire has always been burning through the millennia. From when most of the former countries were literal fucking savages to through when they finally reached a semblance of power.

Not even Chinese just a big fucking Chinaboo.

Insecurity mainly. China is the new threat of the decade.

How did Roman education of the upper classes compare to the Chinese education for their scholars?

Romans took education on their spare time to improve themselves. Rhetoric was especially important and what mattered for statecraft.
To become a statesman, it was expected that you learned it from practice (i.e. on the job), by climbing the cursus honorum.

In Han China education was obligatory to become a statesman, and in the schools they learned Confucian classics, higher mathematics and other things necessary to statecraft.
They had to learn how to solve questions like these:
>A fast horse and a slow horse set out together on the 3000 li [i.e. 900 kilometers] long journey from Chang'an to Qi. The first day the fast horse travels 193 li, thereafter increasing his speed by 13 li each day. The slow horse covers 97 li on the first day, thereafter reducing his speed by ½ li each day. After reaching Qi the fast horse starts his return journey and meets the slow horse. When does the meeting take place and how far has each horse traveled?

Main point is that even though Romans practiced the liberal arts, they did so independently of becoming statesmen. You became a statesman mainly through training on the job. While in Han China the education was designed to create statesmen.

how much delusion do you need to have to consider yourself the same culture and people from over 1000 years ago? it's honestly baffling, like >my ancestor :) tier. Their fucking party head even memes the whole "communism with chinese characteristics", what mental gymnastics do I need to perform to understand this logic?

its fine, literally nothing wrong for an ignorant western peasants to be unable to understand profound chinese philosphy and cultural values that have been going for literally thousands of year.

So has it in the west. It just seems that chinks cannot grasp that the west were in some fields always ahead, and eventally surpassed them in several others.

>romaboo delusions

After getting into civil wars every 50-150yrs after the first dynasty and then dying a bunch to just come back after having bred even more than ladt time

>Laughing-Han-Man
>that costume

>Rome started as a Republic and ended as an Empire.
>China started as an Empire and is now a Republic.

Really makes you think.

>Modern China.
>Republic.

Actually China is overrated by retarded Asian fever white losers and nationalist Chinks

Chinese high schoolers today can read original Tang dynasty poetry from over 1000 years ago with only moderate effort. How many Anglos can read Beowulf in the original Old English?
And aside from the written language lot of the customs have still remained the same, like festivals (Lunar new year, mid autumn festival, dragon boat festival, etc) Confucian values of filial piety, ancestor veneration, superstitions, Buddhism, and so on

KEK, the People's Republic of China is more like Rome compared to many western democracies. Both Rome and China were hierarchical democracies.

Like Rome, they had an oligarchical body in power and not everyone could vote (i.e. in Rome: only Citizens. And the Plebs can only vote for a single representative of theirs in office. In China, only those elected by local county/municipal level councils to represent them.)

>better architecture

Yeah no sh-

want he's talking about China

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHWHAHAHHAHAHHQHWHQHHWHQHQHHAHAHAHAHHAH

We can ride the divina commedia here in Italy from 800 years ago easily

Rome's still there, you can literally visit it any time

>more effective government
Probably China, due to meritocracy.

>better architecture
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

>more organized bureaucracy
China

>better quality of life for citizens
Rome

>more influence on neighbors
Both

>more sophisticated culture
Both are sophisticated and great.

>more enduring legacy
They are both dead. China by the Cultural Revolution and the last vestiges of Roman values were killed by the counter culture of the 60's.

Roman architecture and infrastructures were much more advanced

So because you can read old literature you're the same people and society? Because you have the same festivals and basic customs you're the same? This sounds like you're fitting the criteria to the situation rather than actually establishing rules. Latin is still taught and people celebrate Easter and Christmas with some pagan remnants so I guess we're gauls and romans now

t. delusional chinaboo

refer to -

>Main point is that even though Romans practiced the liberal arts, they did so independently of becoming statesmen. You became a statesman mainly through training on the job. While in Han China the education was designed to create statesmen.

I have a question: is there a Chinese equivalent of Marcus Aurelius or Hadrian? Philosophically minded men who were Emperors (and good ones at that)?

China was basically Babylonia tier or less, Rome was Egypt on testosterone, no contest

>China today is a continuation of the original Han
>The European Union is the new Roman empire

rome arent even on egypt level, you romeaboos are delusional

Egypt was shit. Only got BTFO during the Iron Age.