Which one was more successful and charismatic?

>be Ataturk
>get rid of bloated, rotting Ottoman Empire
>secularize your state to bring it into the modern world
>it's all being reverted now by some islamic wannabe strongman because most of your subjects are still backwards peasants
Being Ataturk is suffering

I know its hard for your tiny brain to comprehend, but not every commie is a bad guy. Lenin genuinely had good intentions.

> intentions
one is judged by his accomplishments not by intentions, Lenin usurped power, destroyed democracy even inside the party, he walked away from the world war just to concentrate the country's resources against his enemies not for seeking peace, he started a civil war that killed millions, initiated the red terror and used the cheka to destroy millions of innocents, unleashed the gulags, people were dying everywhere of famines, yeah but he had good intentions, you could argue that for Stalin's case not for Lenin at least Stalin accomplished a lot despite his massive scale crimes

>Lenin genuinely had good intentions
I'd say Hitler had good intentions as well

>you could argue that for Stalin's case not for Lenin at least Stalin accomplished a lot
i was gonna seriously respond, but you're obviously just baiting

no, I am not

They could as well be a greekshit.

Then you haven't met the right kind of turks most people still love him.

Ataturk was pretty based. Lenin is literal cancer.

Which one is a visionary and which one is a mass murderer?

Considering ataturk pretty much laid down the foundation for the mess that is Turkey, id say Lenin wins. The complete homogenization of Anatolia (this includes politics, culture, ethnicities ) spawned the abomination that is modern islamist Turkey.

you're right, fuck ataturk

Lenin isn't Ataturk's contemporary realistically speaking.

>modern Turkey
>islamist

I saw book that compares reza shah with ataturk
regimes at library. Thanks for reminding me that gotta read it.

Good stuff.

Lenin, obviously. Ataturk's influence is limited to Turkey whereas Lenin's vision and thought has inspired revolutionaries across the world for a century.

Ataturk didn't do anything new tbqh, nothing that hadn't been done decades ago in Western/Central Europe. Lenin established a totally new kind of society.

Ataturk was a retard that had literally no clue what he was doing, or what he wanted. The fall of the Ottoman empire and the loss of all that land is his idea of a revolution? Claiming that he brought down the Ottoman empire is also fucking stupid, it was already crumbling and there were revolutions all over 100 years prior to when Ataturk did anything. I don't get why all roachposters love Ataturk so much, yet screech about their empire.

His mother's father was a Jewish doctor who converted. His father's father was Chuvash.

This thread actually reminded me why i fuck /his up

almost everyone here is retarded. hence i feel kinda superior to these retards

and a lot of you are from /pol too

Are you really black tho? It l's not like Turkey is in africa n shiet

yes indeed. turkey is not in africa. it's in your mother.

Törk banter is lightyears ahead of us lads

> two crumbling Great Powers
> One has a massive civil war that is among the deadliest conflicts in history
> One does secular Western leading reform
>One embraces communism

30 years later one is a Super Power and wins the space race after BTFOing Germany, the other is irrelevant. This despite the huge loses during the civil war.

Based Lenin and communism wins again.

also i don't want to be associated with crackers i already proved that in discussions that we got nothing to do with crackers but some literal retards here are too zealous about trying to relate us to crackers which is pretty cancerous my nigga. then they wonder why we hate them *shakes his head*

limiting the spread of communism to only russia would be an improvement

t. eternally butthurt t*rkroach

Based opportunistic cunt

>They both created new societies and states by extinguishing empires.

Russia wasn't extinguished. Lenin extinguished it. It was under hardship, but it was not defeated, the allies won WW1.

>They both lived in the same era
That's about the only similarity.

Ataturk was a general. Lenin was an ideologue.

Ataturk established a new nation, new culture, patriotism to your country, culture, etc.

Lenin established a union. No culture, no nation, pure egalitarianism.

They had nothing in common besides contemporarily creating new states

>Lenin's
Marx's

Lenin's Bolshevism was limited to Russia and it was discredited within a decade.

Marx's ideas have echoed around the world for centuries across cultures

To clarify

>Lenin established a union. No culture, no nation, pure egalitarianism.

It was Stalin who brought back nationalism to the USSR. He abandoned all the Commie talk and began talking about the motherland ahead of WW2, to rally the people.

Bolshevism was discredited within a decade

Ataturk was the best thing that could of happened for turkey Lenin was one if the worst things that could have happened to russia

How did they win the space race ?? We went to the moon bitch !

Throughout the 19th century, Russia was a net "importer" as far as people were concerned, which is to say that Tsarist had more immigrants than emigrants. This was never true for Soviet Russia. The USSR and the Eastern Bloc had few if any willing immigrants and people with the means to leave frequently did so. It was this constant hemorrhaging of people which eventually prompted the construction of the Berlin Wall, perhaps the single greatest atrocity of the 20th century. But despite even this, not once since 1917 has Russia been a net "importer" of people. Since 1917, Russia has always been a net "exporter" with far more people trying to leave the country than enter it. There is no starker proof of communism's failure than this; for all of Tsarist Russia's many flaws, it still managed to be more attractive than the dystopian nightmare that Lenin created.

>both agentur puppets

both hated religion
WWI helped both get into power
both had their accomplishments undone by their successors

T. Kurd

Stop pushing this meme.
Say something remotely Bad about him in a square anywhere in Turkey, i dare you.

Sticking your flag on the moon is dick-waving, not an actual accomplishment.

because they accomplished pretty much every other feat

I can see that he did a lot of good things but crushing democratic local rule in favor of totalitarian rule was kinda inexcusable desu. And while the Union he founded did greatly expand the living standards of its people for a while before stagnation, other countries accomplished the same task much better, in a more sustainable fashion, and with less loss of life.

serious question, what positive things did Lenin accomplish?

kamal did nothing about creating a new society, only thing he had done was to put on the inheritence of the 1876 and 1908 constituinal amendments. turkish society back in early 20th century was already started to to evolve from muslim apes to actual human beings.

Many muslims do hate Ataturk, though. Just look at this site: atajew.com

That site, fuckin lol

The Ottoman government was strangled by harmful agrements and treaties. Its like he built a new house instead if renovating one with shit smeared on every wall