History of Aragon and Catalonia

Did Catalonians ripoff Aragonese identity?

It confuses me

Catalonia and Valencia overshadowed Aragon in their own union of territories. Back then the king lived wherever he wanted and Aragon was too backwater once they had the coast. The same happened with Barcelona and Valencia when they conquered Naples.
Catalonia with the years maintained their identity (thanks to the politicians and the rich folk) and claimed Aragon's symbols while Aragon was basically absorbed entirely into Castile and later Spain because they had no power of any kind in the grand scheme of things. The kings settling in Madrid didn't help.

So Catalans gobbled up Aragonese identity while the Castilians gobbled up everything else?

Basically. It's a quirk of history Catalonia didn't turn out like Portugal desu.

The Crown of Aragon was a union between the county of Barcelona and the kingdom of Aragon which was named after Aragon because they had the higher title. It was however an equal union, the Catalans were not second class citizens and neither were the Aragonese.

The only reason Aragon doesnt have an identity as clear as catalonia is because they have always had a smaller population( specially since castille forced them to expel the moors) they remained the symbolic capital the Cortés of Aragon( meaning of all The crown Valencia, catalonia, Mallorca ...) got together in Monzón and the king had to be crowned in Zaragoza

Also Aragon got fugged by Felipe II during The 1500s because he took some powers from The courts

Curious how now nobody takes Catalonia seriously.

Just listen to me. Everyone else in these thread is fucking clueless. IGNORE THEM.
Aragon was a kingdom that was given to one of the sons of the King of Pamplona Sancho the III.It expanded through Zaragoza and most of modern day Catalonia(this will be important later) through military expansion. Mostly under Alfonso el Batallador. Ramiro the III had only one daughter so he married her to the count of Barcelona Berenguel who controlled Barcelona and some other regions in Catalonia. Berenguel never became king of Aragon but his son did. And that is how the crown of Aragon was born. The new king of Aragon splitted the region in two the core of old kingdom of Aragon and the principality of Aragon that joined the Catalan territories of Aragon with the ones of the County of Barcelona. Later on Jaime the conqueror conquered Valencia and Mallorca and created two kingdoms (the kingdom of Valencia and the kingdom of Mallorca). Valencia was colonized 50% by Aragonese and 50% by Catalans. Mallorca was colonized mostly by Catalans with sizeable populations of French,Italian and Navarrese people. That is all you neeed to know about how the crown of Aragon was formed. Anything else is bullshit spilled by people that play CK2 and EUIV too much

No fucking clue. Ignore this moron

How brilliant. Enlighten us more please.

Not really. Portugal's position was relatively secure, Aragon's, sandwiched between Castile and France wasn't. Furthermore when 1)Aragon, or rather Catalonia as a constituent part of it, had conflictive interests with France in Italy, Occitania and the Mediterranean, and 2) Castile had always been kawai with France.

Aragon desperately needed a buddy and found it in Castile. But the union could have been between Castile and Portugal instead. First Castile fagocitating Portugal and later, in the XV, with Portugal being the the one actually holding the reigns.

Didn't happen precisely because Isabel prevailed and chose to buddy Fernando, but if not for that the merge would have been with Portugal. Which would have had a tremendous impact on History.

>Portugal being the the one actually holding the reigns.
Lol. This could have never happened. Castile had 5 times the population of Portugal and a way bigger army. Portugal had no way of taking the reigns of any union. They would have become Leon 2.0

I alredy wrote a post

That post does not, in any way, negate what I said in mine.

Catalonia is the wealthiest and most affluent province/region in Spain. They kind of do.

They have a lower GDP than Madrid woth 1 M more people. They are by no means the wealthiest or most afluent. Madrid,PV and Navarra hVe been performing better than them for over 2 decades. Catalonia is closer to La Rioja currently than to Madrid

Not him but what this guy said. Each Kingdom (Aragon, Valencia, Mallorca and the Principality of Cataloni) of the Crown of Aragon was basically its own thing. Mallorca even separated from the Crown and was it's own sovereign, fully independent Kingdom for some time in the XIV.

The founding Union, between Aragon and Catalonia was established under a sort of "confederal" pact that was later extended to Valencia and Mallorca after they got conquered to the muslims.

That original Catalonia was only a part of today's Catalonia though, most of the south was still under the muslims and most of the inland east was under Aragon. Which btw was a proper independent Kingdom, whereas Catalonia was a collection of counties that over time fell all under the rule of theCount of Barcelona. Who technically was himself a vassal of the King of France, because the Carolingian Spanish March, which was basically that north Catalonia. So whereas Berenguer couldn't just declare himself King and Catalonia a Kingdom, the merge with Aragon, a proper Kingdom, served as a way to finish off any theorical claims the Kings of France could have about the catalan counties being de jure part of the French Realm (in practice though no catalan count gave a shit about France since the late X century).

Except that those were stormy years for Castile and there was a good part of the castillian nobility supporting the Infanta Juana and the King of Portugal. Had they won there would have been a merge with the King of Portugal playing a major role.

It doesn't matter who joined Castile. Both would have been absorved as it happened to Leon or Aragon. Thinking anything else is delusion. Yeah Portugal would remain sovereign but over time they would just become culturally Castillian and fully absorved as it was happening in the XVII century

Aragon was never part of the Crown of Castile.

What I'm saying is that "Spain" would have been formed with the union of Portugal and Castile under Portuguese Royalty actually.

Would portuguese culture be absorbed eventually? Maybe. Probably. But that's another thing.

>Aragon was never part of the Crown of Castile.
I never said that. I just said that it was absorved by Castille in every way

Portugal could always count on the anglos to uphold the treaty of windsor when it came to spanish shenanigans.

Yeah that worked really well

No.

Read the medieval catalan chronicles please.
And do deep research.

Catalonia is a fake country. The only reason they want to separate is because they are all rich racists who don't want to help contribute to Spanish economy to help poorer regions.

You have a point about catalans talking more shit than they're worth, but you should avoid using capital regions as examples of economic development in gdp comparisons, because it's invariably overinflated by the bureaucratic presence.

Madrid is not just a capital it is also a region.It has 2 really important industrial poles (Corredor de henares and Madrid sur), a really strong touristic sector and a really low bureaucratic activity for containing the capital (lower than the Spanish average).It has the highest rates of entrepreneurship and foreign investment in the country.Of course being the capital is important but 90% of Catalonia's GDP belongs to Barcelona to begin with which has been a priviledged city since the bourbons came to Spain

fuck c*talans

everyone hates them already, they have no chance

>Catalonia is the wealthiest and most affluent province/region in Spain

Not for long with the mass exodus of businesses moving headquarters out.

How can a people be so stupid to clamour for supposed 'freedom' with the attitude of 'we're better off than you' when the inevitable outcome of splitting up will screw their economy big time. They won't be recognised by the EU automatically losing all benefits of trade that EU members enjoy, no other EU member state recognises them officially, business will move out due to this and to the instability caused by forming a new 'country', their biggest trade partner (Spain) will take every opportunity to screw them over...

They really are just shooting themselves in the foot if they think they can just secede and everything economically and financially will magically stay the same.

This. The exact same thing happened in Quebec with their independence shenanigans, and Quebec didn't even secede. When it looked like they had a decent shot at it, most corporate headquarters based there, as well as other major businesses, moved to Toronto.

This has alredy happened in Catalonia.But the collapse will continue