Industrialized a literal feudal state

I think he's commendable for the industrialisation he brought and creating a nation far more powerful then the Russian Empire which proceeded it and one of the most powerful nations but it doesn't mean I have to like him.

>The man who gives you the gun won the duel

It was the Russians who fought and bled for Europe.

>industrialized a literal feudal state

19th century Russia was already a great power. Yes, it's technological progression was slower than other European nations, but that was something that had already begun to change in the early 1900's as Russia's population grew. Russia in 1913 had the fastest growing economy in Europe, and the world's third highest population.

>won the deadliest war in the history of mankind

Stalin was more of a hindrance to the war effort than an asset. Killing off the entire Red Army officer corps nearly cost Russia the war. Stalin also wasted the first two weeks of the conflict because he couldn't accept that Hitler of all people had betrayed him!

>because of what happened later
>later

Before WW2 even started, Stalin had already murdered millions of people. The stuff he did during and after WW2 is nothing compared to the brutality that occurred during the collectivization period of 1928 - 1940.

> for europe
lol get a load of this guy.
> looks at the economic performance of former soviet countries
Europe is soooo gratefulll, thanks Stalinnnnn

he was basically hitler but with a complete moustache

> At the conclusion of the conference, a tribute to Comrade Stalin was called for. Of course, everyone stood up (just as everyone had leaped to his feet during the conference at every mention of his name). ... For three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, the stormy applause, rising to an ovation, continued. But palms were getting sore and raised arms were already aching. And the older people were panting from exhaustion. It was becoming insufferably silly even to those who really adored Stalin.

> However, who would dare to be the first to stop? … After all, NKVD men were standing in the hall applauding and watching to see who would quit first! And in the obscure, small hall, unknown to the leader, the applause went on – six, seven, eight minutes! They were done for! Their goose was cooked! They couldn’t stop now till they collapsed with heart attacks! At the rear of the hall, which was crowded, they could of course cheat a bit, clap less frequently, less vigorously, not so eagerly – but up there with the presidium where everyone could see them?

> The director of the local paper factory, an independent and strong-minded man, stood with the presidium. Aware of all the falsity and all the impossibility of the situation, he still kept on applauding! Nine minutes! Ten! In anguish he watched the secretary of the District Party Committee, but the latter dared not stop. Insanity! To the last man! With make-believe enthusiasm on their faces, looking at each other with faint hope, the district leaders were just going to go on and on applauding till they fell where they stood, till they were carried out of the hall on stretchers! And even then those who were left would not falter…

> Then, after eleven minutes, the director of the paper factory assumed a businesslike expression and sat down in his seat. And, oh, a miracle took place! Where had the universal, uninhibited, indescribable enthusiasm gone? To a man, everyone else stopped dead and sat down.

Wow, people must've loved Stalin greatly to clap so much for him

He gets a bad rep , you knuckle draggers , because he was not a smart leader or one who led from the front. He hid in a bunker and demanded his generals funnel men into a meat grinder to win. Outside support or not the man is abhorrent regardless of the results

How terrifying, having to supplant your life and worship a grubby gangster to such a degree that being seen not clapping for a stupid amount of time could mean execution and you ceasing to exist....

Yeah, millions of Russians died needlessley so he could preserve his pride. War only started turning when he gave power over the military to people who actually knew what they were doing.

While you're correct, Imperial Russia prosecuted war with terrible incompetence when it came to supplying troops. "No ammo and no guns" trope about WW2 Russians actually happened in WW1.

The War was won despite Stalin, not thanks to him.

he was an insecure manlet who had photographers executed for the crime of not airbrushing his sickening craterface lmao

This is from a fictional novel.

>bloodiest war

It was only the bloodiest because his side died so much

This

The scale of the war caught everybody off-guard, and yes, the Russian government vastly under-estimated the amount of rifles and ammunition they'd need in major European war. This was particularly true with regards to artillery shells; the Shell Crisis of 1915 hit Russia especially hard. However, the proper reforms were made and shell production was accelerated to such a degree that by 1916 it was no longer an issue.

>industrialized a literal feudal state
you mean he stole the industrialization plans from Trotsky, those same plans that a few years before he shit on
>won the deadliest war in the history of mankind
The Red army did. Not Stalin. Pulling back and letting the enemy starve to death was a common tactic for centuries before Stalin.

Except Solzhenitsyn wen't through a ridiculous amount of primary and secondary sources to form a lot of his works, so we know that these kinds of things happened. You are fictional.

The Russian Empire was not a feudal state and would have done a far better work on industrialization than the Georgian psychopath.

>because he couldn't accept that Hitler of all people had betrayed him!

topkek, it is most interesting that the most paranoid man in history trusted Hitler who built his career on hating jews and communists over his own generals and spies

They lost against the german empire, nazi germany would have raped them

t. Lindybage

Source?

>he idpol this hard

>industrialized a literal feudal state
Before the war, Imperial Russia was industrializing faster than most of Europe, without as many corpses as Lenin and Stalin produced. If anything, both Lenin and Stalin hampered industrialization by killing and driving out so many people, and turning the USSR into a pariah state.

>won the deadliest war in the history of mankind
His decisions before and immediately after the outbreak of hostilities nearly cost the Soviet Union the war. The war was won by letting the Red Army do its thing without interference.

>people still shit on him
Deservedly so.

>both Lenin and Stalin hampered industrialization by killing and driving out so many people, and turning the USSR into a pariah state.

This isn't even questionable. For all of Tsarist Russia's flaws, it had been a net "importer" in terms of people, which is to say that it had more immigrants than emigrants. At no point in the USSR's history did it have more immigrants than emigrants. The USSR was always a net "exporter" with more people trying to leave than people trying to enter.

Modern "communists" try to be Stalin fanboys but fail to realize communism is Sergei the giant Russian working with his compatriots at the steel mill, not marcel the gender queer barista who works 30 hours a week at minimum wage but is still a shit worker and a slacker.

Stalin kept society looking how he liked it. Communism is only sustainable if slackers and shirkers and the unproductive undesirables are weeded out routinely.

turned into a dick after his wife died

It baffles my mind how communism seems to attract slackers. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" should be pretty self-evident. Feeling you don't want to work isn't the same as not having the ability to work.

it wasnt the ussr but youre still wrong, ww1 decimated britains empire and ww2 was the nail in the coffin, American reigning free. Britain definitely did NOT win in any way besides not getting reichd

>fastest growing economy in Europe
While this maybe true, the beneficial economic effects of this wasn't very widspread throughout the nation as for the vast majority of Russia continued to operate in a feudal peasantry system with the exception of major urban centers. Under Stalin however and by careful and directed effort the industrialization that was expected to occur over many, many decades under the previous path of the Russia was done very, very fast.

>Stalin was more of a hindrance to the war effort

Without the industrialization of the USSR thanks to Stalin, the Russians would not have the production capacity to supply and create the tech and weapons necessary to fight the war.
>Killing off the Red army officer corp was bad for the war effort.
Yes it was. Can't argue with you there.

>Stalin also wasted the first two weeks of the conflict because he couldn't accept that Hitler of all people had betrayed him!
Not true. telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

He was already wary of eventual war with the Nazis, but communication infrastructure in Russia and Poland wasn't very good before Operation Barbarossa so the entire Soviet response was sluggish in the first place and this wasn't anything specific to Stalin himself.

>Stalin had already murdered millions of people
Uh yes. Stalin himself personally killed millions of people with his bare hands and definitely caused all of that suffering just for yucks because he is sooper ebil and is mean. Haha no. The famines under the Soviets happened routinely in Russia as well. The collectivization was an effort to concentrate farming efforts as a cooperative unit rather than have fluctuating production beforehand that wasn't going to cut it during a period of starvation.

>ww1 decimated britains empire and ww2 was the nail in the coffin
>American education

Communism of the early 1900s would struggle to even be sustainable for a few weeks.

Communism protects Oleg the coal miner who mines coal for 45 years then loses his legs in a cave in. It gives him enough money to each potato soup 3 times a day and not be kicked out of his closet sized apartment. It wouldn't let pink haired obese Kelly not work because she has no interpersonal skills and has undiagnosed "anxiety"

This is why the PC privilege culture adapting communism makes me laugh.

If Stalin hadn't made a secret pact with Hitler, WW2 wouldn't have even happened in the first place. And yes, Stalin's brutal collectivization program killed millions. Trying to make it sound like a joke doesn't change the facts.

>He renamed the city Tsaritsyn after himself. In 1925 it became Stalingrad.
this one doesn't seem to be wrong

Lmao, do you think that Hitler's expansionist policy wasn't going to cause trouble sooner or later? The treaty was made because Britain and France were being pansies and the Soviets decided that might as well buddy with them to delay war. This did not work, but to say that it CAUSED the war is straight up dumb user. Millions of people would've died anyways without any interferance from collectivization at all. Russia was decimated from WW1, the Civil War, and was in the process of the NEP when Stalin decided to go full speed ahead. Collectivization and the setting of a national agricultural production standard that was NOT run by FEUDAL PEASANTS was the reason why Russia has not had a famine since.

>Le intermittent pre Soviet industrialization meme
There was only one recorded famine in the Russian Empire from 1837 to 1917, one. And it only lasted a year.
The millions starved in Central Asia, the Ukraine, and Russia due to the land being ravaged by Bolshevik terrorists was further exacerbated by Stalin’s collection agencies and shitty agricultural practices.

>Implying the Holodomor in Ukraine and other millions of deaths caused by collectivization was beneficial to the USSR and her people.

What did he mean by this?

Beneficial in feeding the factory workers and the tens of thousands who would die creating new ebin infrastructure

Beneficial in wasting so much time labor and foodstuff due to poor planning, intentional famine (punishing the Ukraine for resisting collectivization) and retarded farming practices and bureaucracy.

>deports you to siberia

Stalin is just as responsible for WW2 as Hitler. Let's not forget, more than 1 country invaded Poland in 1939. The Soviet Union invaded Poland as well. And BTW, blaming "feudal peasants" for the actions of a monstrous dictator. Do you think that somehow they are responsible for the massacres that the NKVD committed in Stalin's name? Are they responsible for the horrors of Lysenkoism? Are they to blame for Stalin's Gulag system? No. Stalin is responsible!

Yes Solzhenitsyn the Tsarist and Nazi sympathizer who wrote a gigantic anecdotal recollection of events that conveniently hit every point of Cold War bullshit statement ever made is taken now as the go to for USSR stuff. Fucking fantastic.

> A literal unsourced powerpoint slide.
The absolute state of Veeky Forums.

The Nikonian chronicles recorded 10 famines alone between the 1100 - 1300, and there are a bunch more than that. Stop bullshitting.

Lmao, how is the Holomodor any different from the wider famine across the entirety of the USSR? It's all a bunch of Ukranian butthurt over le ebin Russian aggression which a historical pasttime of theirs.

>intentional famine
Lmao, the Soviets tried their best to fail. Yeah that makes sense.

Being in charge long enough to see some new inventions doesn't mean he can be credited with them.
Industrialization in Russia started much earlier and one of its side effects were revolutions starting with 1905.

Not everyone is your 1920's burly fetish muscle man. Socialism's practice changes depending on the material conditions present.

Socialism protects Sergei from sinking into an alcoholic stupor from losing his arms from poor safety regulations and starvation after losing his job from automation.

Marcel would have the time to do shit he is good at/cares about instead of having to subsist at a shit job. If he's shit at everything then he'd probably still have to make frappuchinos but for 4-8 hours a week as social work but at least he'd have the basic necessities needed under socialism so he doesn't have to rely on that paycheck. If the place he works at is co-oped he could even get a pay increase depending on his performance. In capitalism he'd be going to work only for the money for 30 hours knowing he would starve or be homeless if he's not selling his labour while the boss rakes in the profits.

((((Communists)))) who pit tradies, wagies and white-collar workers against each other are fucking with you. Especially those who say gender/race identity is more important than class. Marx didnt write about transgender bathrooms nor did Stalin or Mao kill and purge thousands because they were cis white men. Its fucking class war and you're either for the proletariat or the capitalists.

>slackers and shirkers and the unproductive undesirables are weeded out routinely.
Glad we agree comrade.

They still make commies like this?

Naww why are you so desperate to exonnerate a monster that even Lenin came to despise?

>1100 - 1300

That's the fucking medieval period. The Tsarist Russia didn't even exist yet!

>10 famines during the Mongol conquest 8 centuries ago

My point is that one laborer offers real value in having skills and labor, the other is less valuable, as the type of work he provides isn't as crucial. There's obviously a place for him in society, but what about the transsexuals and tumblrinas who are all "self diagnosed" with a slew of mental conditions they've made up who are just lazy and so profoundly unskilled that autistic chimpanzees are more competent workers? Can we kill them? We can? Oh but one of them is gay so that'd be a hate crime, one of thems black so we can't purge her, her ancestors suffered at the hands of ours.

Communism has a lot of new fans that see it as the reverse of Nat Soc, and an edgy way to stick it to the system, but these new fans don't understand what communism would really look like.

The feudal peasantry system still existed thenis what I'm trying to say.
>Invasion of Rus.
>1223–1240
You're ignoring the one in the 1600s as well and the overall European one in the 1300s.

dude is that a fucking DiJ reference??

You claimed that collectivization was necessary to end the intermittent famines that plagued Russia when there were barely.
>hey guize let’s end non existent famines by creating the largest famine(s) in Russian history!

Pardon?

You're a fucking moron. Tsarist Russia didn't exist until 1547.

>industrialized a literal feudal state
No he didn't. Tsar Nicholas II industrialized Russia, it was one of the main aims of his reign, along with reforming the government into something more democratic (if not really implementing a real democratic process). Under Nicholas' reign the Russian middle class swelled and the working classes were able to form powerful political parties.

The only thing Nicholas and his government were guilty of was their extremely inept prosecution of the war against Germany and Austria-Hungary. They bungled nearly every facet of the war, from high level strategy needlessly wasting lives to simple logistics mismanagement creating shortages and excessive tax burden at home. It's not an exaggeration to say that fucking up WW1 was what cost Nicholas his crown and his life. If he could have just managed to keep his soldiers loyal he probably could've avoided the revolution, but even they were sick of it by 1917.

>Hey WW1 and Civil War never happened!
>The major ones in the 1600s, 1800s, and quite possibly the countless more localized famines that occured during the feudal era on a daily basis.

My main argument for pre-Soviet famines was due to feudalism not the Tsarist monarchy specifically. Read my posts.

The Civil War was the bolshevik’s fault. As for World War One Alexander lll was entangled in treaties and relationships created by his predecessors and bubbled over in the 1910s

You realize that leftypol fucking hates feminism, right? Older strains of leftism were racist and sexist af.

Hell, the reason why Foucalt stopped being a leftist is because everyone he knew who was a communist hated homosexuals. Engles hated faggotry as well, and in the Soviet Union it was illegal to be a homosexual for awhile as well.

BUT ancoms are different from the kind of communism you are talking about.

>the transsexuals and tumblrinas who are all "self diagnosed" with a slew of mental conditions
Reeducation or labour camps. There is a case they would be considered capitalist wreckers if they do not contribute social labour.

>Can we kill them? Oh but one of them is gay so that'd be a hate crime
Do you think the guillotines stops at a female CEO or if the Rothschilds suddenly become transracial Muslim genderqueer deaf-mutes? Those who think you can redeem capitalists by being "progressive" are either ignorant of socialism or are themselves scared of worker revolution as part of the liberal bourgeoise. Never underestimate the levels capitalism will go to make revolution cool without it actually happening. Most people dont want to risk losing a comfy 9-5 life for violent upheaval where they face becoming POWs or having to gouge someone's eyes out.

Also, I dont think anyone knows what real-existing-communism will look like. Socialism, as we've had glimpses, is a more attainable goal.

So what we have in modern Russia with all the ga hating and all is traditional Russian patriarchal culture or remnants of post-Soviet ideology?

He industrialized the main population centers of Russia, but the vast majority of Russia didn't experience the economic benefits that would typically arise from this and stayed a majority feudalistic society with all of its problems. 90% of the population were still peasant farmers.

The Civil War was started due to foreign countries invading Russia with an assembled White Army hoping to restore the monarchy. Beforehand the Tsar was already overthrown and taken over by the provisional government so it wasn't even the Bolsheviks that technically overthrown he gov.

*gay hating

>Older strains of leftism were racist and sexist af.
No they weren't you faggot. Are fresh off of Reddit?

They were until Bernstein. Old commies hate feminism.

>The only thing Nicholas and his government were guilty of was their extremely inept prosecution of the war against Germany and Austria-Hungary.

In 1917, Russia was winning the war. Yeah, that's right, winning. The Central Powers were outnumbered and being pushed back on EVERY front of the war, and WW1 was a war with MANY fronts. The "Russian Revolution" was nothing short of a treasonous coup by opportunists. Yes, Nicholas made mistakes, but they weren't with the management of the war.

>Nicholas made mistakes, but they weren't with the management of the war
the only good thing with (((October revolution))) is that they killed that hack Nicholas

>Who was Rosa Luxemburg?
>Engels wrote about the conditions of women under capitalism in Orgin of Family, Property and State
Not true right off the bat.

Bernstein was Engels's direct successor in late 19th century. It really started with him.

>The goal of leaders is making their country more powerful at any cost.

Just ignore the whole part about the millions of deaths, human rights abuses, gulags, collectivisation, and less freedom that under the Romanovs by a fucking long shot.

Russians were literally slaves but commies actually believe they had more freedom.

he's asking if the image was a Death in June reference

>let's reduce all of a historical figure's actions to just the ones I like (read "claim") he did
Yup. Delusion or dishonesty.
Also, you'd just be proving my point that you're retarded if you say I'm from /pol/ just because of this.

Back to pleddit nigger loving commie kike faggot.

Read Lenin's Tomb, there's lots of passages about how Stalin was idolized as a God. There's this mother who described her son's fanaticism over Stalin began in school and when he died the kid was in tears. Even fought with his mom over him.

Whom he arguably killed due to neglect, so he was likely a dick prior as well.

>Implying Stalin didn't use artificial famines to punish the Ukraine for refusing collectivized farming.
>The wider famine was mainly a result of collectivized farming being a nigger tier idea, but some were punishments.

You realize communism/Socialism are only achievable by white people and Asians, with a huge margin for failure. Because we can say hey I'm going to put up with this for the greater good. Communism and Nat Soc are very similar. Anarcho-Communism is an oxymoron and fucking faggot.

>man gives you an automatic weapon against a foe who he cripples
>wtf I won this fair and square all me

>There's this mother who described her son's fanaticism over Stalin began in school and when he died the kid was in tears. Even fought with his mom over him.
probably just autism

Lend lease really only actually got relevant AFTER the russians had turned the tide dumbass

>Stalin kills off the entire Red Army officer corps
>Stalin creates a secret pack with Hitler, starting WW2
>Zukhov and others constantly warn him that Germany is planning to invade in near future
>Stalin ignores all the warning signs
>Stalin then shits himself when and hides in his room for two weeks when Operation Barbarossa occurs

Yeah, the Russians would have been much better off without Stalin. The war likely wouldn't have even happened if not for him. He was more effective at killing Russians than Hitler was.

He killed less than 5 million people, you just hate him because he beat hitler and he is non white

No. Stalin's monstrous collectivization program killed 12 million, minimum. This is easy to calculate. 7 million died because of Stalin's famine in 1932-1933. Then you have the 5 million Kulaks that he deliberately murdered for resisting collectivization. So that's 12 million right there. Then we can increase that number further by taking into account the 600,000+ people who were murdered during Stalin's "Great Purge" in 1936-1938. So at minimum 12,600,000 people died because of Joseph Stalin before WW2 even began. The true number is probably much higher than that.

You need to judge historical leaders kind of like you judge sports players.
If your a mediocre QB but you have a badass offensive line, running game, and WRs, you are going to look way better then you really are.

TLDR - Stalin is basically the Trent Dilfer of Leaders
He got carried

he won. but at what cost?

It was prooved with soviet census that he killed less than 5 million people

Molotov-Ribbentrop caused Winter War, which showed Germs how inept Red Army was. This made Operation Barbarossa seem like a good idea to Hitler.

>Yes Solzhenitsyn the Tsarist and Nazi sympathizer who wrote a gigantic anecdotal recollection of events that conveniently hit every point of Cold War bullshit statement ever made is taken now as the go to for USSR stuff. Fucking fantastic.
So you don't think Solzhenitsyn is credible? Can you show evidence to prove it or are you just gonna imply he isn't credible because of his views/because you don't like what he said.
>Lmao, the Soviets tried their best to fail. Yeah that makes sense.
If Stalin's goal was to create the most amount of meaningless suffering as quick as possible I'd say he was only beaten by Mao after him. I believe Stalin was evil and was perfectly fine with killing all those people with his decisions.

I was literally agreeing with you though