Who really owns this region? I was always curious because of the incessant shitposting revolving around this region...

the russians absolutely are the real owners at this point. koningsberg is gone and is not coming back.

>but hungarian autism and generally being a pact of cunts ensure it went to the romanians

Could you elaborate? As far as I know Romania only got that territory after the war was over and austria hungary was demilitarized

Just because they conquered it doesn't mean they built it and lived in it for hundreds of years you autist. Hence the real owners are germans.

The point is that you're being ridiculous. No land has a 'real' owner. The closest thing you could get to it under modern norms is the majority ethnicity, which would be the Romanians.

BTW the overwhelming majority of Konigsberg today are Russians, so they're as legitimate as anyone else is.

But back in the day germans had the majority. So they are not legitimate anymore just because the russians imported a shitload of people there?

Here’s a few things about Romania that you foreigners (and some romanians) don’t realise.
I’ll go through a brief history and then through the problems of the average citizen.

Romanians are here since the beginning. They somehow mantained a cohesive identity even though they were occupied and raided throughout history.

There are some stronger and some weaker strains of romanians, but what’s interesting is that even territories that have been under foreign occupation for hundreds of years (the former Austro-Hungarian empire mostly) have mantained their sense of self intact. The only exceptions were territories that had mass deportations and population shifts (bucovina and republic of moldova).

To survive across centuries, the two kingdoms outisde of the carpathian ark had to apply scorched earth tactics to starve enemy advances. That, combined with harassment and finalized by a decisive attack was the main tactic that allowed us to win against the turks and some tatars across centuries.

Transylvania was protected from this by the outer kingdoms and by the mountains. So whenever somebody says “man , Transylvania is so beautiful” it’s because they had millions of romanians burning their own homes and protecting them for hundreds of years on the other side of the mountain.

That’s why there’s no advanced cuisine in the country and most houses in the south are made of clay and straw , while the north-west looks totally different.

> The gates of Vienna were guarded at the lower Danube first.

However contrary to this shit going on for a thousand years Romanians managed somehow to produce lots of brilliant minds, inventors, researchers, poets , composers , writers or architects.

>to be continued

20th century
Romania went through 2 complete rebuilds
During the early 20th century Romania was one of the battlegrounds for WW1, which again destroyed lots of it, only to be rebuilt. The trouble with every single rebuild period was that peasant population moved to the cities.. and peasants were mostly illiterate, yet hard working. Schooling was sometimes done by the local businessmen, because they needed smart and educated people to operate their factories.

Romania had it’s greatest economic year in 1938, a landmark year which has since been used as a yardstick against every other year to follow.

WW2 has destroyed again most of the infrastructure in the country which had to be rebuilt during communist times.
Romania , even though it was on the “winning” side of the war had war debt to fill and a country to rebuild.

Communism in Romania killed between 250 and 900k people, and most of the smart people. However we were lucky (as much as you can consider it luck) to have some communist leaders that cared about the country. That’s why Gheorghe Gheorghiu Dej got the radioactive shits on his last visit to Moscow.

Most of the killings were done in the post-ww2 purge (40-50s) and a much smaller part during the construction of the Danube-Black Sea channel in the 80s.

However Romania was having a decent growth and development.

As a small trivia piece, Romania was one of the very few countries behind the Iron Curtain that had both high industry and agriculture development.

Don’t believe me , check this BBC piece of 1964 Romania
youtube.com/watch?v=zfviSFAwUPE

> to be continued

Romanians. Not only are Romanians the overwhelming majority in the region, but they are also the historical natives. Hungarians/Magyars are a Finno-Ugric people who invaded the region, which was settled by "Vlachs" (archaic term for Romanian) and ruled by a "Vlach" named Gelou.

Ceausescu came after Dej and even though he was not a genius, he genuinely cared for the people. However communism relies on suppression of thought and secret policing to be kept together.

In the 70s Ceausescu took a large loan to fix the economy and the external debt. With great sacrifice (food , electricity and heat rationing) and a focus on exports, Romania built a huge inter-connected industry and was almost completely self sufficient. For things that couldn’t be done in –house we built great relationships.

In early 89 Romania finished paying ALL EXTERNAL DEBT. In December, Ceausescu was the only one executed on the spot of all communist leaders that fell.

> His charges: subversion of state economy, treason and genocide.

Communist Romania has instilled in the people a sense of patriotism and friendliness.
It’s very hard to describe it, because it looked like the 50s america in movies but better in some aspects. There was a sense of safety on the street, people were helping each-other out even if they were strangers, they were visiting, there were parties with lots of families joining. It’s all gone now.
But it also killed the private enterprise and entrepreneur spirit. People were not prepared for the market economy .. and when it came upon us.. it came down hard. But more on that later.

One more thing to understand about Romanians: we can figure shit out… if conditions are bad, we can figure a way around it. This IS the entrepreneur spirit, but 45 years of communism and another 27 of socialism stamped it out … that’s why the average romanian is always tormented or mad…

> It’s like a car that races with the handbrake at max

And the handbrake IS the mindset of socialism.

could you provide sources I would like to read a bit about that.

>Romanians are here since the beginning
False. Vlachs are originally from the Balkans. And no, present day Romanians have nothing to do with Dacians who lived there 2000 years ago.

But that ruins the whole daco-romanian continuity which in case results in the land belonging to the hungarians. Is it not?

>present day Romanians have nothing to do with Dacians who lived there 2000 years ago
Source? There isn't anything that would indicate they aren't related.

Here's the primary source:

discovery.ucl.ac.uk/18975/1/18975.pdf

or the wiki article if you just wanna skim through it

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesta_Hungarorum

Note that modern Hungarian nationalists deny the validity of the document, even if they didn't before Trianon.

Petre Roman, one of our first prime-ministers pushed the meme that we had a non-working industry and it belongs to scrap metal… and we should make a bet on the agriculture.
So what happened was the literal dismantling of all the companies. Selling them for scraps to italians, austrians, french, germans… breaking up all the state farms and giving the people their land back.
The purge was done by blackmailing people with the following question

> “What did you do in the last 5 years?”

Implying that if you were a commie you should shut up… but people were forced to join the party to advance in their career, even if they weren’t acting the part. So the whole country was held to blackmail.

 There were so many claims to land in the early 90s that a running joke was… that we needed to give them half of Bulgaria as well.

> to be continued

Dacians were a "Balkanic" people, even if the region isn't considered in the Balkans, geographically speaking. They were closely related to Thracians.

Gradually the following happened:
 Constant vilification of the small businessman – we have a termen “bijnitar” which is a derogatory word for small businessman and hustler.
 All industry was sold for scrap metal. People who opposed it were accused of being communists
 All fertile land was left in disarray , irigations stolen and then sold to foreign investors
 All banks were sold to foreign entities
 Health system was destroyed
 Ponzi schemes made people poor. 2 major ones – Caritas and FNI. ROMANIANS WERE NOT POOR PER SE IN 89, BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T BUY ANYTHING AND THEY JUST SAVED
 The press was destroyed. Turned from the most powerful insitution into tabloid shit
 Education was dismantled systematically in 2 stages: 92-2004 and 2004-today . We had the one of the highest literacy rates, and now all the kids are retarded.
 Morals were destroyed starting in mid 90s with overtly-sexualizing kids on tv , and borderline pedophilia, following by the gipsy invasion of manele literally one year after they promoted this vile shit. Nowadays people watch degenerate tv shows with silicone bimbos that get railed by 10 football players
 Sports were totally destroyed. In the 90s we were still high contenders on the world scale in most sports. Now we have gymnastics, handball and a tennis player that paid for everything with her parent’s money.

At the beginning of the 90s most people bought the apartments they lived in with cash payments, just to understand how much money they had. During communism you couldn’t buy real estate.

The saxons aka g*rns

Romania

According to Anonymus, "Bulgarians, Vlachs, and the shepherds of the Romans" inhabited the Carpathian Basin when the Magyars invaded the territory. The chronicler describes Transylvania (terra ultrasilvana, "the land beyond the woods") as a rich country with salt mines and gold-yielding rivers, inhabited by "Vlachs and Slavs. In the Gesta Hungarorum Gelou is described as "a certain Vlach" and "prince of the Vlachs", indicating that the Vlachs were considered the dominant Transylvanian population.

Are they somehow more legitimate than the people living there right now?

Let us know and then mail your answer to the UN so that they sort that Israel-Palestine shit out already.

Wrong

There's no proof that there ever was a Hungarian majority in Transylvania, nor any proof of mass Romanian immigration to the region. On the other hand, there's proof of Romanians fleeing south to Wallachia. As well as 200k Romanians immigrating to the United States between 1885-1920 due to policies of forced Magyarization.

it belongs to whichever ethnicity is the majority in its parts
pretty lame how self determination of ppl only applies to westerners

Romanians since the majority are Romanian

There are no Germans in Kaliningrad anymore nor do the majority desire it back

It belongs to both Hungarians and Romanians. Historically the romanians didn't stretch towards modern Transylvania's borders but a rather small part of the region.

>Romans invade Transylvania in 106 by Traianus
>Aurelianus abandons the province in 271 due to barbaric invasions
>according to romanians the dacians fully assimilated during this 165 years
>implying any roman would have remained to be exposed to foreign attacks while the military was no longer present to protect them
>Aurelianus moves the populace to Dacia Ripensis, a province south of the Danube
>while romanians no longer live here, their past presence is proven by settlement names of romanian origin
>600 years later hungarians find sporadic slavic tribes, which is proven by slavic burial sites from this era
>romanians generally followed the transhumance lifestyle
>this means they move with their livestock, from the valleys in the winter to higher mountain pastures during the summer
>these pastures could be found in the Balkan Mountains and the southern slopes of the South-Carpathians
>Transylvania was heavily forested, which did not allow pastoralism

I'm pretty sure whoever owns it is the real owner, so Romania

Yes, did you mean to ask who we think SHOULD own it?

What about the baltic Old Prussians before them retard? The real owners have nothing to do with who you think has some "ancestral right" to the land, they are whoever de facto(i.e. REALLY) owns it.

just because someone lived there and took a shit or two doesn't mean it still belongs to their country

>just because the russians imported a shitload of people there?
No, because they imported a shitload of their people, kicked out almost everyone else so they make up the majority, are internationally recognized as controlling it, and have been for many years.

just described current day transylvania

There are some proof to migration though, mainly the origins of place names and dates of orthodox churches being built for the romanian peasantry.

>200k Romanians immigrating to the United States between 1885-1920
Between 1889-1915 1,2 million hungarian moved to the US

>these pastures could be found in the Balkan Mountains and the southern slopes of the South-Carpathians
>Transylvania was heavily forested, which did not allow pastoralism

Of all the nonsense that was ever said on this subject, this just goes beyond.
This is denying basic geography and logic at this point.
Transylvania is full of sheep, I just have look out the window to see this Hungarians peasants are sheepherders as well.
The Carpathians in their entirety allow pastoralism even in Moravia and Southern Poland.
What forests have to do with anything? Balkan Mountains and South-Carpathians are forested and so is Transylvania, you just have go the natural pastures at the higher altitude
Holy shit. Only someone who has never seen mountains can write this nonsense.

>everything was exactly the same 800-1200 years ago as they are now

Except the source is Petre Panaitescu, a romanian historian.
According to him, there were no shepard dumb enough to take his livestock to the northern side of the carpathians, where there are would be no pastures.
Also, during this age the Bihor Mountains were not deforested, this only happened after large populations settled in the area.

The House of Habsburg

Duh vampayys my nigga

It was first Romanian,then Hungarian for almost all of history,it should be part of Hungary with a German-Romanian civil administration and an autonomous regional goverment which corperates with Romania,which can have areas like Dobruja and Bessarabia..

Everything there is German.

there are almost no germans left
just leave it in romania

Should be independent.

Yes