Which was better, ancient Sparta or ancient Athens?

Which was better, ancient Sparta or ancient Athens?

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Athens on most accounts.

Sparta
gimme sweet boipucci

why though

the duality of man

Sparta was more dominant until the Persian Wars, that's when the Delian league rose in power. The Peloponnesian war saw the weakening of Athens, but Sparta's power also decayed over time. I think overall Athens has contributed more. Sparta's citizen system inevitably ruined itself.

Athens. They contributed the most to modern civilization of any Greek city-state.

What was Sparta's citizen system and why was it so bad?

There were three tiers, helots (slaves), a non voting freeman class that including economic tradesmen and the likes, and the spartiate (what you would know as a spartan. The latter were their main soldier force and best train and he would have an estate dedicated to producing food for him. There were many ways to move down from the spartiate class (fleeing from battle or losing your estate) but there were no ways of moving up the classes. Sparta inevitably ran into the issue where their Spartiate class was minimal.

Also, they mistreated their Helots, which meant they would riot whenever the Spartans left on military campaign. This meant they could not go on long campaigns or far from home. So once their citizen class became too small, Their system pretty much collapsed. Many of the helots traced their ancestry to neighboring peoples whom the Spartans made slaved generations prior.

Massively unbalanced ratio between helots and actual Spartans. They were extremely strict about who held full privileges in the society, and to be a Spartan meant the grueling upbringing of becoming a fully trained soldier. This creates great hoplites, but extremely low growth, the capital city's population being as low as 800 at one point.

Athens

Sparta was ok but is vastly overrated imo

Yeah, it sounds like Athens was by far the superior city state

There is no way that person is nordic.

SPARTA: MARTIAL NATION OF PHILOSOPHERS, WARRIORS, SOLDIERS, HEROES, AND INSTITUTIONALIZED EXCELLENCE.

ATHENS: HEDONISTIC NATION OF SODOMITES, IDOLATERS, IMITATORS, AND INSTITUTIONALIZED PEDERASTY.


IF THE BETTER OPTION IS NOT IMMEDIATELY EVIDENT TO YOU, YOU BELONG IN ATHENS.

oh boy this guy again

It's obvious bait, don't give the (you) s

>muh bait

i think that was just a common style

1. THAT IS NOT A PERSON; THAT IS A STATUE.

2. THE STATUE DOES NOT DEPICT A HUMAN, BUT ATHENA.

3. WHO POSTED ANYTHING REGARDING NORDIC PEOPLE? YOUR POST IS A NONSEQUITUR.

YOU THINK THAT WHAT WAS A "COMMON STYLE"?

Macedonia

If your were a woman then Sparta.

well, many greek sculptures look similar, have same features

What's the difference?

AND?

Athenians were nothing but scheming, devious expansionists, and Spartans were lazy, sociopathic savages.

Both utter shit polis.

Sparta cos they were fuckin badass dude

Athens gave the world incredible advances in:
Art
Music
Literature
Theater
Architecture
Mathematics
Philosophy
Education
Medicine
Political theory
Left behind the Acropolis, one of the ancient world's grandest examples of civic planning
Fought the Persians even in Greece's darkest hour, keeping Western civilization from being snuffed out in its crib

Sparta gave the world incredible advances in:
smashing boipucci
cruel bullying that masquerades as soldiering
PR stunts
religious excuses
justifying an oligarchic status quo
demographic suicide
reasons to stay the same and never innovate
Left behind a single shitty amphitheater which isn't even worth the effort to visit
Fought the Persians only after Athens had guaranteed victory, turned around and allied with them during the Peloponnesian War

here he comes again

ري كظ R Y · Q V S S a.k.a the all-caps faggot who think edgy is as good as educted. Every comment of yours on this board reeks of History Channel-tier "knowledge".
May I suggest you fuck off to /x/?

>Every comment of yours on this board reeks of History Channel-tier "knowledge"

Not really though. These, on the other hand...

SLINGERS

>These, on the other hand...
present the consensus of academic historians who weren't influenced by their high school mascot?

You don't need to go all defensive. I'm well aware that most people are incapable of critical thought, or of thought at all, so relax, buddie.

it was the style at the time

...

>Athens gave the western civ incredible advances in:


mesopotamia already had all of those

you talk like if civ started at athens and everyone was backwater shitholes

Yeah, and the sad irony is that you think you're on the victimized side. That's how tragically stupid you are.

>mesopotamia already had all of those
I didn't say that Athens pulled these things out of its ass, I said that they made advances.

Advances, as in "carried the torch" or "improved upon".

While Spartans were living in thatched roof shacks and beating each other with sticks, Athenians were doing things like writing geometry textbooks and making history's first rigorous classification of diseases and inventing drama

>says he's not on the side of the victimized
>attacks him with an ad hominem

the cognitive dissonance of the boastfully ignorant is a comedic thing to behold

Look, you're the one bolstering the "academic consensus" with your trivial opinions, advocating uncritical conformism, yet, for some reason that I can't fathom, in the next post you put yourself in the place of the conscious minority victimized by the ignorant majority, and further, in the third post, you accuse me of being cognitive dissonant (!).

Man, you're stupid, oblivious, and unwittingly ironic. Sad. Just stop posting...

>I-I'm not mad! You're mad! Why are you so mad bro! LOLOLLOL

That's all you can say. You have nothing of substance to add to the discussion, no sources, nothing except venom and rhetoric. I'd laugh, but this is the state of Veeky Forums, where any two-bit imbecile can pass off his half-baked opinion as fact and shitpost like a mad cunt at anyone who says anything even remotely disagreeable

...

>Athenians were doing things like writing geometry textbooks and making history's first rigorous classification of diseases and inventing drama
so what do you think mesopotamian were doing for 2000 years?

>so what do you think mesopotamian were doing for 2000 years?
Laying down the foundations for these things, like arithmetic and some of history's earliest prose, forming a crucial link between the rise of the first large scale societies and the codified knowledge structures that the Greeks passed along to later societies.

They were the twin pillars upon which western civilization was founded. Hellenic Civilization is the West and everything else in the Western World must be subordinated to the memory of Lakedaimon and Athens.

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