Who was the greatest ancient philosopher and why?

Who was the greatest ancient philosopher and why?

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diogenes

Greatest single philosopher? Tought. Maybe Parmenides, maybe not. If I can offer two, I would give the prize to Plato and Aristotle.

>t. mentally ill homeless man

this pro-diogenes meme has to end. If you want to meet a diogenes, there are plenty of them living on the street. it's not pretty.

Socrates.

Diogenes was a wise man.

>the prize to Plato
Could you give your opinion on how Plato is superior to Socrates?

Diogenes was a wise man, says who? Stoics who lived centuries later and had grown to idolise him? Meme tier authors like Plutarch?

Maybe he was wise before he lost his mind and became homeless, maybe he wasn't. The fact remains that there are no shortage of modern-day examples. People who shit on the street and masturbate in public, can't maintain a household, completely incapable of social relationships, etc.

If you ignore later philosophers who admired him and who were his intellectual descendants and historians, who will you believe?

I don't have any writings from Socrates. I know him as a character in the stories of Plato, Xenophon, and a few others like Aristophanes. I don't honestly believe that Plato's dialogues are accurate transcripts, so I am not comfortable just assigning him every brilliant idea and development that comes out of his mouth in those works.

I don't dislike Socrates, and he definitely was a clever and interesting character. The accounts of him are not consistent, though, and at any rate Plato relates some of his greatest ideas in dialogues were Socrates is not a character (Laws, Sophist) or is a minor character/getting schooled (Parmenides, Statesman).

I don't ignore them, I accept the accounts of his behaviour. I just don't blindly accept the characterisations or their attempts at mind-reading, and I am deeply concerned because people who resemble diogenes are mentally ill and often living on the street, in jail, or under some sort of civil commitment and hopefully in treatment or being monitored.

Unless you're saying that Diogenes was a unique and special flower who just larped as the unfortunate souls we are familiar with today, it's not a very happy story.

Diogenes did make speeches. It is not like he was famous for being a silent man who didn't speak his mind.

Let's see these speeches then, let's see quotes from his contemporaries who saw him as a person who was not mentally ill and to be pitied.

>he's mentally ill because I said so with no diagnosis or doctor's opinion

Pseuds like you are the fucking worst. E-diagnosing every historical figure you can find from the comfort of your armchair.

How silly of me. I am so sorry for pointing out that your pet "philosopher" would be arrested for public indecency within about 10 seconds of arriving in the modern world.

All these years later, Diogones is still making people with less intelligence his bitch. Fucking L-O-L

>would be arrested for public indecency within about 10 seconds of arriving in the modern world.

That has to be the single most retarded arguement against an ancient philosophy I have ever heard in my life. Holy fuck.

lol

Plato wrote down great ideas. He studied them, enchanted them. Republic is one of the earliest great-works which greatly effected how people view and form societies. It took almost 2000 years for people to produce an another, popular unique idea similar to that. (Marx.)

Socrates just walked around being a cunt to people. He had a way with words, quick with but nowhere near the intellect of Platon.

Diogenes lived as he did voluntarily. To compare him to modern paupers is stupid seeing as how your average homeless person is someone that's likely had fuck all of a decent shot at life from the start. He lived as he did to make a point; to him poverty was a virtue and freeing of the menial bullshit that besets your average person. However you feel about this is hardly relevant seeing as how he was definitely noteworthy and famous, garnering the attention of contemporaneous philosophers and (supposedly) Alexander himself. He wasn't just some deranged bum.

However what Diogenes is acclaimed for is ostensible and comes from an array of scattered sources, his personal interactions with figures such as Alexander and Plato are eh. Also doesn't help that none of his own writings have ever been found.

What kind of fucking logic? If we're going by this all of the greek philosophers would be arrested within 10 seconds of arriving in the modern world for being fucking pederasts.

Diogenes did this, diogenes thought that. No contemporary source cited. The absolute STATE of Veeky Forums.


bzzzt wrong dipshit, only a boeotian would rape a kid within the first 10 seconds of arrival. Given that boeotian is a byword for retard, I doubt the philosopher would be from that region.

Oh, you're just pretending to be retarded.

Dumping wojak

...

>no contemporary source cited

what do you think secondary sources are based on.

...

>Alexander II
>"If I were not Alexander, I would wish to be Diogenes
Or something like that

Wow what a deep quote, woah. Life changing! Mind if I post that on facebook?

It’s like sun tzu died before the Book was finished and handed to his retarded cousin.

I'm amazed of how good of a writer Plato was.

Why don't you tell us? Which late-era source material are you relying on?

Chances are you're reading someone like Diogenes Laertius, who wrote over 500 years after Diogenes of Sinopes. It's unclear if DL ever read anything written by Diogenes the Cynic, because he can't decide whether Diogenes even wrote anything at all. DL is even aware of five different notable people named Diogenes. When DL does mention a source for his various tales, they are almost all people who wrote centuries after Diogenes the Cynic was dead.

I mean, the absolute STATE of Veeky Forums, I am literally doing homework for people who idolize a deranged homeless man that tortured little birds by plucking their feathers out. That's what passes for enlightenment in Veeky Forums? Designated shitting streets, public masturbation, spitting on people, harming animals, homelessness, financial failure and ruin... the list goes on endlessly, the absolute state of this place, it's horrendous.

What makes it even worse is there are two gods, Plato and Aristotle, just standing there and waiting for you to embrace them. Yet here you are, shitting your pants in public and calling it philosophy.

>philosophy is subjective
Whudda thunk?

Jordan Peterson

Epicurus because he lived the happiest life of them all.

>Plutarch as meme tier

Oh son, you've wasted so much time reading everything badly. You still have time to fix it though.

This topic will forever be discussed with no clear victor... Instead I'll contribute with good ethics to live by:

Seneca:
youtu.be/ABRN0E_mI0U

Epictectus:
youtu.be/5897dMWJiSM
>Lecture on Stoicism
youtu.be/aaFe3nGhdGI
>The Enchiridion of Epictectus

The Stoics are the best philosophers.
>tfw most stoic writings were lost and you only have about 5 people's writings to go by...

Better chinese philosophers than Sunzi to be perfectly honest.
Zhuangzi absolutely blows the fuck out of Confucius and is hilarious to read, additionally Book of Lord Shang for pragmatism.
There's also a lot more shit out there that isn't really paid attention to, not to mention the tons of commentaries and lost books (that we might find again), pretty interesting.

Where is the best place to start with Stoicism?

I tried reading a History of Western Philosophy by Bertand Russel but got bored from its lack of depth and his overt bias.
Before i stopped however Stoicism really interested me.

Plotinus

Aurelius for practical use. Watch the lecture on him, it's great. Epictetus for the academic basics of stoicism. Discourses, Echridion.

>Leave being right about everything to me

Diogenes the Cynic never actually existed and instead is invented and used by authors centuries after he supposedly lived to serve as a rhetorical foil to Plato and Socrates.

Prove me wrong.

Yes, this fellow user: (), has the right idea.

We literally don't have a lot of material on the Stoics, and what we do have by the most prevalent Stoics is pretty little.

I suggest going straight to the source, we have 5 Stoic philosophers with works that survived:
>Seneca
>Legendary Marcus Aurelious
>Epictetas
>Zeno of Citium
>Chrysippus of Soli

Their works are easy reads:
>On the Shortness of Life
youtu.be/ABRN0E_mI0U
>The Echiridion of Epictectus
youtu.be/aaFe3nGhdGI
>The Meditations
youtu.be/0FNGuiKPGfM

There's a couple more but I can't remember... Sorry for taking a while to reply X)

Good Luck user!!

...

Jesus because he was the infallible son of God

fpbp

>Book of Lord Shang for pragmatism.

this is pretty high tier trolling, thank you

Unironically this, even if his meditations were flawed.

Why is there no progress in philosophy?

Post-modernism
Death of thought

The West is DEAAAD.

Buddha, because he was enlightened, and the others weren't. Plus he also showed us to how to do it.

Thanks anons, ill get started

To all the unknown philosophers. There were many books that were burned by the ecclesiastic assholes. Damn Index Librorum Prohibitorum! Those ecclesiastic books shall be censored for being so retarded! Ego est in exego ecclesii homini. Ego est superii homin! Cogere!

Unironically Evola.

t. "Elixir" smoking NEET
The ultimate redpill is to bring about Supreme Harmony to All Under Heaven by propriety and ceaselessly assisting the Son of Heaven with proper government.

All Daoists do is moan to the Moon about "dude the Nameless lmao" while molesting lolis for "longevity".

>molesting lolis for "longevity"
Sounds like the Daoists were on to something.