Elon Musk,
>Presents himself as cool badass super smart, matrix spouting entrepreneur.
>Always losing money and enjoys the income of our tax dollars
What does he provide practically? From an economic standpoint, and don't say because he's looking into the long-term profit
satellites
electric cars
american jobs
>and enjoys the income of our tax dollars
tax dollars are dollars too
unless you're going to say nasa are a bunch of cucks for not funding the moon mission on the private market
innovation
>From an economic standpoint
That's where you short sighted idiots fall short. Economics are supposed to help humanity not the other way around, the only raison d'etre of humanity is technological advancement.
>What does he provide practically? From an economic standpoint,
Brand Equity.
same thing LVMH spends billions of dollars in acquiring.
Western countries can't compete with Chinese and Third World labor (in fact now China outsources) so all they can do is create brands so they can charge a premium for products.
No one in their right mind will take the guy who dropped out of Post-Graduate battery science as a visionary inventor, he is however one of the most skillful Entrepreneurs and Brand communicators around. Richard Branson and Steve Jobs are his peers.
And don't dismiss Brand Equity as useless, I know what you're doing you just want to rag on the Reddit crowd for drinking this dude's Kool-Aid. Well guess what, this is a guy with no credentials in rocket building or battery science who's made a personal fortune out of those industries.
What did you do today?
The advancement of the technological limits of human race not good enough? Yeah it takes resources, just like everything else you want to get better at.
How does Elon Musk help humanity by taking money out of successful profitable private companies and wasting it on unsuccessful boondoggles like putting laptop batteries into overpriced cars when 80% of our energy comes from fossil fuels?
Why dont we invest the money into nuclear fusion research instead? Toyota already has working hydrogen fuel cell cars that utterly BTFO Tesla's in range and fuel economy. Hydrogen production would be trivial and cheap in a fusion economy. Hell even fission reactors would be great.
Elon Musk is unfairly profiting off of tax dollars.
>Presents himself as cool badass super smart
>M-muh robots is attacking
How do you help this board when we could be reading posts by professional fusion developers instead?
He provides me with my next car.
the whole golfcart drivetrain on a teeny lotus was cool but his fakex video fudgery crew is cheesier than nasa fakery. Its like watching 1950s special effects from old movies. ya its funny but only cause its so badly done
the fuck are you trying to say? also those digits
Not to mention the hyperloop fiasco. Didn't that crap just get a quarter billion in funding?
Another thing to keep in mind is just by creating a company like SpaceX he's furthering space travel because if my anecdotal evidence is correct, with the exception of Formula One Racing, engineering firms are riddled with fiefdoms and bureaucracy. It takes years to see an idea get turned into a working prototype, not because of the difficulty of manufacturing it or the cost: but because of all the people crap you need to go to.
What applying a 'startup' lean mentality (I hate those words too, but unless you can think of another phrase like 'vertical hierarchy' which sounds just as wanky) to space rocket building there is no extant hierarchy. New ideas, hell even proven ideas can get made into a reality quicker. There's no seven levels of approvals for a fucking bracket. there's not a series of meetings about what size the screws should be.
Things. Get. Done.
Now is that because of the personal magnetism of Elon Musk? No. Any startup would have this advantage over NASA or the behemoths of aeronautics. But unless they undergo a radical internal restructuring it's not gonna happen.
It actually reminds me a lot of the radical changes that happened at Fiat under Sergio Marchionne and Nissan under Carlos Ghosn.
>Not understanding that in normies eyes this builds up his Science Credentials
>Literally not understanding PR
I know it's stupid. But it works!
Tesla is a scam Elon musk should be arrested for tax fraud
Nuclear power is the future
you absolute retard. elon musk has nothing to do with hyperloop aside from publishing a whitepaper
So if I'm understanding you right, although Musk is being held up by investors who are okay with keeping up Elon's business, Musk has the ability to do things within a shorter amount of time in comparison the the slower gradual build-up because he has free reign to pursue?
>Musk has the ability to do things within a shorter amount of time in comparison the the slower gradual build-up because he has free reign to pursue?
I wouldn't look at this as a Musk-only phenomenon. But yes.
You may not see how this relates, but basically here is an example of what I suspect is going on at NASA or really most aeronautic firms that stops them from getting shit done.
This was from an article about why Ducati's Moto GP team sucks now:
>Another mechanic told me about the overabundance of 7mm, 8mm, 9mm and 10mm nuts and bolts on the Desmosedici. While chatting to one of Ducati’s hallowed university-trained engineers, he suggested that these bolts should be either 8mm or 10mm.
>The engineer looked at him quizzically: but how will that make us faster on the race track? So the mechanic explained: “I can’t quickly tell the difference between a 7mm and an 8mm nut or a 9mm and a 10mm bolt, but I can visually tell the different between an 8mm and a 10mm nut or bolt. So, if we’re in the middle of a 45 minute practice session, trying to make a shock change, I have to look carefully at every nut and bolt to work out its size, so every job takes longer than it should.
>“So while Honda might be able to make two shock changes in a session, we’ll only have time to make one. And Honda’s second shock change may be the one that finds them that extra few tenths a lap that wins them the race.”
The engineer still didn’t get it. Why should he listen to a lowly mechanic without a string of letters after his name? The 7mm, 8mm, 9mm and 10mm bolts stayed.
See even if Musk knows shit all about engineering, just having a CEO on the ground floor with no middle management means he can cut through this fiefdom shit, take feedback from all sides of the organization.
Okay, I understand the concept. We are essentially piercing deeper into the potentials of technology. Now, some proponents of the free market would disagree with these actions to uphold a certain business (through government taxes) when it has been failing because citing it's inefficiencies. They would look at this year-to-year losses as a sign that this is poor business practice of which could be tackled. But what do you value, the boldness of knowledge brought from this project that could be disseminated to everyone through an accelerated exploration, or a world that follows basic economic laws? What provides a better standing for humanity in general?
He propagates the "musk is a technology wizard ever heard of the internet? Yeah kinda like that = meme for the godtier normies
Are familiar with Clay Christensen's work, you might get a kick out of reading him because he basically describes a pattern where once companies that were once "disruptive" become industry incumbents they stop innovating and creating diffusion products (I mean 'diffusion' in the sense of budget lines of luxury brands i.e. Armani Express). That creates a whole that if not filled by new market entrants (like iPhone and Android in mobile phones, Uber in the Taxi Industry - the latter Christensen has admitted he doubted the success of) nothing happens.
So like you can see an argument for tax subsidies, especially in a globalized world where if you don't do it, there is a chance a startup scene in another country will. After all, look at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. All started out making cheapo cars, now they ARE the automotive industry, especially Toyota.
The value for humanity is debatable. I mean wouldn't, I dunno, making TB or Ringworm fighting drugs more affordable to third worlders be better? What about continuing the work of Norman Borloug... I mean I'm not saying these are better causes than going into space (certainly better than electric cars - most electric cars run on coal indirectly! His battery technology notwithstanding).
>They would look at this year-to-year losses as a sign that this is poor business practice of which could be tackled
This comes back to Christensen's work - I mean basically you need to incur risk on capital if you want to see bigger returns. That's the rule of thumb. 10 years of loses might eventually become mega profits, industry dominating profits. That's the risk you run. It should probably be separate from the tax thing because as I said, do you want innovation or not?
Sorry that I can't answer any of your questions, I literally don't care/think about it much. My interest in Musk is as a rainmaker.
I'm curious to hear your take on Elon's position under Trump's America. When you talk about Elon's position, he seems to be the face of American technology superiority in a globalized world
OP's pic is engineered for empathetic response in cuck engeineers
notice the bags under eyes
I don't know if Trump's America is any different from Obamas so I'm not sure what you're asking?
Do you mean in terms of image where Trump represents a traditionalist conservatism as opposed to Musk's future vision? Interestingly there's something endemic to the American psyche about both of them and their personal narratives. I mean Trump is a big proponent of "think big!" and Musk is too. I mean you can't get much bigger than going to Mars.
One thing I will say is that Musk couldn't have accomplished what he did in any other country because of the venture capital culture in the US.
Perhaps, but I am not using it for that purpose personally. I didn't even consider it.
OP is just bitter and envious
So is this a Veeky Forums meme? Yes, I am a newfag
While this start-up (I hate this term too) mentality is efficient, there's only Musk's way of doing things that could translate to a succesful operation in rocket science & space exploitation.
You need a freak to make a freakish idea like being more efficient than NASA for a franction of its cost work. It's the reality of things and god bless America for laying such a groundwork.
>there's only Musk's way of doing things that could translate to a succesful operation in rocket science & space exploitation.
Well that's what I'm not sure of.
Again, if you look at Sergio Marchionne who flushed out all of the middle managers at FIAT and put his office right in the middle of the engineering executives (now substantially younger median age, not that it's relevant) rather than taking the big beautiful top floor one. He has three mobile phones on him at all times. This, I imagine, is very similar to Musk's management style - you get a yes/no quickly! More importantly Marchionne and Musk are constantly interacting with the engineers, so they know what the themes, the recurrent problems are, how time and resources are being directed.
I think what's special about Musk isn't his management approach, but rather the fact that he was able to get the investment to make it happen and since he's created this image of him as the scientific genius no-one dares remove him from that role. THAT, like you say: God Bless America for laying down such a groundwork.
But theoretically he's no unique in his actual managerial capacity, it's literally just his name recognition that let's him do it.
What are the two most successful sitcoms in recent American history? Seinfeld and the Simpsons.
What did they have in common: Insulated from Network interference (i.e. bureaucracy)
I think there's a corollary with what is happening at SpaceX believe it or not.
I've seen Musk hate in like the la$t 3 threads. If this was /pol/ I'd say it's a slide thread but...I assume someone bagholding for Boeing? Russian launch agency being BTFO? Some carcuck from Detroit?
kek that suit is reviewbrah levels of oversized
at this point Musk represents an excuse to continue foul monetary policy which at this point constitutes of Quantitative Easing and nothing else. it's a highly disputed topic, and people usually consider one point of view where they judge subject within 5 minutes of googling it.
I'd highly recommend reading about Kondratiev's waves, and how they work. Especially if you think that Quantitative Easing is bad, it actually shows why it's not as bad as you think, if you cant find anything, look up articles written be Sergey Glaziev, he gives a complete guide on how they work, but i don't know where to get them in english, so good luck with that.
Russian link: glazev.ru
I think you're lost mate, plebbit is back where you came from.
The reason Veeky Forums Veeky Forums hates Elon Musk is the same reason Veeky Forums /mu/ (probably) hates Kanye West, because he is a psuedo-intellectual and an average businessman who got lucky and who's reputation has been blown why out of proportion by edgy teenagers like yourself who subscribe to "I Fucking Love Science" and watch CGPGrey videos while sharing some fucking infographic about how Hydrogen is made. You guys are incapable of having a reasonable attitude towards anything, instead you just fixate and idolise individuals who "subvert" common stereotypes "OMG HE'S A RICH COOL HANDSOME NERD, LOL THATS SO DIFFERENT THAN PPL EXPECT!!!1!" or "WOW RONDA ROUSEY IS A GIRL WHO LIKES VIDEO GAMES AND KICKS A**!!!". At least Steve Jobs earned his idolisation through un-fucking-believable quarterly earnings and absolutely ruthless management skills, and Steve Jobs was pretty open about being an asshole and about the fact that his major skill was salesmanship.
The irony is someone who is a true businessman through and through, someone who wrote the SEMINAL book on negotiation, someone who is so brutally manipulative and talented in persuasion that he became president of the United States is just a "angry loser" who borrowed 1MM from his dad.
So go ahead and drive your Sanders-stickered Prius to Whole Foods whilst wearing your "Schrodinger's Cat Zombie" T-Shirt thinking about how Elon Musk's semen tastes like, but don't expect Veeky Forums/biz/ to care about your deity.
Would you rather see that money go to niggers, or spacex?
JESUS Christ LOL
good post. i will look into this, there must be a thin line between brand equity of a nothing product and snake oil salesman though.
his billion$ starting capital gave him legitimacy though.
Say what you will about the US, but it is literally the best country in the world to do business in when starting with nothing.
Does anyone know how to "trick" almapsd.owschools.com aka odsyware schooling into thinking you did the assignments with good grades without doing them?
now this is what i call circlejerker retard pro
well done m8
>he thinks trump is anything but a con artist who was given a silver spoon of prime NY real estate and millions from his rich daddy
>he thinks trump actually writes his own books
>he defends trump out of nowhere when he was never even mentioned
You think musk listens to or respects the opinion of unqualified grunts? Engineers make the decisions in tsla and space x.
You realize that Steve is nothing compared to Tim when it comes to profitability. Steve created a machine that prints money, Tim made it work.
eh err ehhh errr
rockets
ehh errrr umm
mars
The dude is an autistic meme. I unfortunately used to work for this dumb fuck.
It's like being in a cult of dumbfuckery.
mars mission
gonna scoop up all that hot martian punani and bring it back to earth
saves you a metric fuckton of money being wasted getting launches provided by ULA who milk the government for all they can get (that's right, SpaceX, despite developing revolutionary technology, are still cheaper)
>there must be a thin line between brand equity of a nothing product and snake oil salesman though.
To the cynic that line is called 'net income'.
But one thing to note is that Branding doesn't stop at Marketing and P.R.
That's why Apple created Apple Stores - so they could frame the products within a context of their own choosing. That's branding. The non-commital language Apple use? Again, Branding.
Louis Vuitton apparently deliberately treat off-the-street customers like shit in their stores because it makes regular Louis Vuitton customers more loyal because they feel part of an exclusive clubs (literally making them feel patrician). That part of the 'brand' and build their 'brand equity'.
From what little I've seen of Tesla cars, Musk understands this. So the layout of his cars, like the interiors has been made in a customer satisfying way.
As for Space X, I'm sure he does a lot to satisfy the telecommunication companies or whoever the fuck his B2B customers are that use his rockets.
i thought that is what I said
Who's talking about grunts? I'm talking about cutting out the middle-managers and executives just waiting for retirement who act as a human blockade between rational engineer decisions being made. Taking a scythe to all those fucking egos and installing one manager, one person who the buck stops with so everybody who knows their shit can get on with the project at hand.
/mu/ has been sucking Kanye’s dick since the hiphop/metal war of ‘10
Join Delta-V and pump with the same group that increased the value of IOP 1000%. discord.gg
Damn threads like this prove that /biz DOES have combined superior knowledge! Interesting read!
he's poluting the air like a maniac with his rockets. wth!
Paid for by who?
You statist retard.
PayPal?
user BTFO
The future.Its a government investment that will pave the way for a brighter future