Greetings, Veeky Forums, Veeky Forums here. Can you tell me about some cultures that are known for being oriented towards producing badass warriors. Only the Mongols come to my mind.
Apparently everything we knew about Sparta was just propaganda and they were the same as other Greek city-states. The Vikings were just raiders who basically massacred peasants and shirked from real battles.
there are same crazy ass native American warrior tribes but apparently in todays history , they were a magnanimous and peaceful people who were incapable of evil
What makes one warrior "bad ass"
Spartans were generally considered better hoplites than their rivals, Vikings were employed in the Byzantine court as body guards and elite soldiers.
>crazy ass native American warrior tribes
Elaborate, user. I'm not looking for brutal and cruel warriors, but societies that were geared towards creating the best possible warriors.
Badass basically refers to societal mores that would be considered too harsh or demanding by their contemporaries.
The hoplites of Argos were considered the best. What can you tell me about the varangians that made them special?
How short are these little shits? Lol
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Thanks, much appreciated
Even if they ended up defeated, it still amazes how things went considering they had to deal against steel weapons and armor, cavalry and artillery while only having wooden weapons.
And the Mongols were just mounted bandits who periodically organize under what essentially is a lawless gangster-style protection scheme that only has a shot against Civilizations when they're in the shitter (i.e. Divided China, post-Caliphate Middle East), which collapses following the death of a leader.
I should also add that the greatness of their conquests was partly the result of the work of their civilized subjects like Middle Easterners and the Chinese. Without them Mongols would just dash their heads unto fortifications.
I mean, Samurai had a hard time against the Iberian technology even while counting with steel arms and not trying to capture alive their opponents:
>Up to this point the Portuguese casualties had been few, with only four or five Portuguese along with a few Africans and lascars killed,[36] while the Japanese dead were estimated at several hundred.[3] However, six hours into the fighting,[35] a shot from the tower-junk hit a fire pot that a Portuguese soldier was about to throw, smashing it onto the gunpowder at his feet. This started a conflagration that spread through the deck and set the mizzen sail ablaze. Pessoa and his men retreated to the forecastle, where they realized that they did not have enough men to simultaneously fight the fire and the Japanese boarders. At this point Pessoa ordered the ship's magazine to be set on fire since he would rather die than surrender. The Nossa Senhora da Graça then blew up in two successive explosions, split into two, and sank with cargo, crew, and boarders alike.[3] The Japanese killed all they could see swimming in the water, but a few survivors made it onto the shore to safety. André Pessoa's body, however, was never found.[4]
Sometimes the Aztecs didn't even had that a number advantage:
>Sandoval was appointed to the command of the third division, consisting of twenty-four horse, fourteen crossbow-men and musketeers, and one hundred and fifty foot armed with shields and swords. To this division were added 8000 Indians from the townships of Chalco, Huexotzinco, and other places in alliance with us. Cortes appointed Luis Marin and Pedro de Ircio, two intimate friends of Sandoval, to command under him, the latter himself having the immediate command of the cavalry. This division was to take up a position near Iztapalapan, and Sandoval's instructions were to attack that town, and do as much damage there as he could, until he received further orders. On this flotilla there were altogether 325 men.
>Upon this Sandoval and Lugo threw themselves on horseback and galloped off for our encampment, where they arrived about the hour of vespers, but we had received intelligence of Cortes' defeat many hours beforehand. They still found us engaged with the Mexicans, who were doing their utmost to storm our camp from that side of the causeway where we had pulled down several houses, while, at the same time, they attacked us with their canoes from the side towards the lake. They had driven one of our brigantines between the stakes, killed two of the men, and wounded all the rest.
>When Sandoval saw how I and many of my comrades stood up to our middles in the water to get the brigantine clear of the stakes, he applauded our courage, and bid us do our utmost to save the vessel from falling into the hands of the enemy, as the Mexicans had already fastened many ropes to her, and were trying to tow her off into the town behind their canoes. Sandoval's encouraging words were not lost upon us, and we fought with such determination that at length we rescued the vessel. On this occasion I was wounded by an arrow. (...) We now ordered our Indian allies to move off the causeway, and we began to retreat slowly but with our faces always turned towards the enemy. Our musketeers and crossbow-men kept up a continued fire upon them; the cavalry at intervals charged the enemy's line at half speed, and Pedro Moreno thundered away with the cannon. But whatever number of the infuriated enemy we might mow down, it mattered not, they still continued to follow us, for they had made up their minds to overcome us that very night and sacrifice us to their idols. After we had at last, with excessive toil, crossed a deep opening, and had arrived at our encampment, where we were pretty secure from the enemy's attacks
Bernal Díaz del Castillo. True history of the Conquest of New Spain, Chapters CL, CLII
>but a few survivors made it onto the shore to safety.
what happened to them?
> Can you tell me about some cultures that are known for being oriented towards producing badass warriors
The Normans.
Literally every foreign source describing them prior to the 12th century just states that they love war and that they love it in various ways.
Hence;
>Be born Norman.
>TFW no money.
>TFW second son, no inheritance.
>Gather like minded pals and go Murderhoboing across Europe/Middle East.
Greatest warriors in history were the scythians, no doubt.
This is a question a 14-year old would ask, it doesn't even make any sense.
Why does everyone forgets the Allemanni and always does
>Muh VIKANGZ
The Varangian guars consisted of Allemanni and Vikings
By your definition of badass, Spartans were very badass. Whoever told you that Sparta was nothing more than a meme state, or that Spartans led ordinary, regular lives, is full of shit and probably a Theban sympathiser.
>What about their military tactics and adaptability?
>What about their merit based functioning?
>What about their defeat of numerically superior forces?
>What about their iron discipline?
>What about their superior bows?
>What about their supply chains?
>What about their mobility?
Under Chingiz the Mongols were a full fledged conquering army, mate.
Could you tell us more about the Norman warrior culture so that we may appreciate them as you do, user?
What makes you say that? I want to know of cultures that were famed for being entirely oriented around creating warriors and for waging war.
I saw this:
youtube.com
>What makes you say that? I want to know of cultures that were famed for being entirely oriented around creating warriors and for waging war.
Such a thing cannot exist. People need to eat. The spartans come pretty fucking close, they had slaves farm their food and devoted their time to war and singing pretty songs. But they are a "meme" according to you.
The mongols weren't entirely devoted to waging war. They were semi-nomadic herdsman. Then they found out that you can steamroll shit.
>But they are a "meme" according to you.
Man, I know as much about history as the average person, which is why I came to Veeky Forums in the first place. The last thing I want to do is to act as if I know more than you guys. I based my -opinions- on this video.
Perhaps I should have more explicitly stated that this was my opinion rather than objective fact.
>The mongols weren't entirely devoted to waging war
The Turkic and Mongolic tribes had been raiding China for centuries. Mongolia is basically a cold desert. But, yes, they did have their yurts and their herds, but under Chingiz the entire Mongol culture became primarily about waging war.
Samurai essentially were the most badass warriors you could met.
Just imagine that your whole life is build around unwritten code of honor and you should dedicate your life to serving as shield and sword of other person.
The Varangian guard was essentially the later Praetorian guard v2, only they made sure to staff them with retards who could not mingle in local politics this time to prevent them from becoming the "Kingmaking gang" (not that this prevented them from doing that, but it's the thought that counts)
They also served a bit like (and possibly inspired) the Sardaukar from Dune, foreign warriors loyal only to the Emperor (a.k.a, the man who paid their bills) who also served as his personal attack hounds and were infamous for their ferocity.
But didn't that happen after the period of war was over? I read somewhere that during battles it was normal for bids to be made to samurai and some times they would start attacking their own allies mid-battle.
Wasn't bushido more about maintaining utmost loyalty to your superiors at all times anyway, how does that translate to war?
>infamous for their ferocity
Any instances you want to share?
The maori where kind of bad ass. Also the Aztecs. Really I just like advanced stone weaponry
Not gonna watch the whole video, but no, 300 spartans did not defeat however many persians at Thermopylae. No one ever claimed they did. 300 mongols could not have done it, either.
>The Turkic and Mongolic tribes had been raiding China for centuries. Mongolia is basically a cold desert.
But the vikings aren't bad ass? Do you think mongol raiders intentionally fought well prepared standing armies instead of fucking over rice farmers?
> but under Chingiz the entire Mongol culture became primarily about waging war.
Vikings had a very martial culture as well. Understandably they were more proud of killing monks than tending to their farms. While the mongols pillaged the chinese, they still had people at home, and with them, that took care of animals, children and latrines. They just didn't harp on about it.
There cannot be a society whose only labor is war, but there are many cultures who choose to strongly indentify with martial pursuits.
There are no supersoldiers, just those who are well disciplined and drilled.
No need to, i merely said they were "infamous", there is a major difference between being something and being regarded as something.
Although their reputation was not unfunded, the first members of the guard tended to break ranks and brutalize corpses during (and after) the battles, which was regarded as normal in the cultures they originated from, but not to the greeks who fought beside them, who had a more regimental and pragmatic view regarding warfare. The later additions of the guard did not commit such actions, however the "mark" had sticked by that point.
Switzerland has the ultimate warrior culture
>But the vikings aren't bad ass?
Again, user, it is just my understanding. I'm not gonna dispute this with someone who knows more than me.
I would be more than willing to accept I'm wrong if you could share and detail some of Viking martial culture. From what -I- know the Vikings weren't that different from the Gauls and Germanics who assailed Rome repeatedly over the centuries.
>Do you think mongol raiders intentionally fought well prepared standing armies instead of fucking over rice farmers?
They wiped out the kingdom that existed in Xinjiang, man. The crossed the Gobi desert the first by any army to attack the Western Xia.
Nepal
They had obsidian on their weapons, which will fuck you up dude.
The Gurkhas were masters of mountaneous combat, and people they fought from the Falklands to the Africans shat bricks when encountering them. But I don't think there was anything distinctive about their culture
And Saxons
Bushido is an extrapolation that barely existed during the times of conflict.
There were house codes warriors ideally were expected to live by and of course it was an honor based society so you had to have some kind of excuse for backstabbing but their was no absolute code.
The sport of the Gods, truly
Do they really have little girl wrestling?
Almogavars from Iberian peninsula
>Vikings were just raiders who basically massacred peasants and shirked from real battles.
Depends on what you mean, Vikings established states and dynasties from Ireland to the Volga.
They fought in battles all the time.
>What about their military tactics and adaptability?
Horse archery is literally the oldest form of combat in the Steppes. It wasn't new.
>What about their merit based functioning?
Meme. 1) What else is the basis of strength in the steppes but de-Facto power. 2) Mongols were extremely clannish where blood relation was everything.
Also what is Imperial China.
>What about their defeat of numerically superior forces?
They were themselves numerically superior. Especially in the face of divided enemies.
>What about their iron discipline?
Implying others didn't
>What about their superior bows?
The recurve composite bow is old as fuck and predated the existence of the Mongols
>What about their supply chains?
Hello Chinese knowhow.
>What about their mobility?
Not unique to the Mongols, yet again.
too brittle, cool af, but too brittle
Americans are the most badass warrior culture the world has ever known. Warfare has been a constant for nearly the entirety of our existence, and warrior culture permeates our culture.
It's called Schwingen, but the whole girl/female schwingen is not yet as established as the real deal
Agreed, but if that shit hits flesh it goes right through, and against the Spanish it was enough.
>taking the black ship in shogun 2 was actually based off real events.
>right down to mobbing it with your shitty rafts.
>it was enough against the spaniards
clearly it wasn't
Sorry should have been more specific, I mean the obsidian blade destroys a spaniard if it hits. In the long run though the Aztecs got fucked royally.
>The Vikings were just raiders who basically massacred peasants and shirked from real battles.
Nice meme.
That sucks, watching little girls wrestle would be hilarious
>tfw no Loli thunderdome
>he thinks the Spanish winning had anything to do with the spanish themselves and not near total mortality rates of epidemics and the entire region erupting into internal and external wars due to everybody wanting to use the spanish to overthrow the aztecs and then to get more territory in the ensuing power vacumn, and then said epidemics killing everybody off in the aftermath
>he thinks the conquest of tenochitlan had anything to do with disease
oh I am laffin
yeah it's not like smallpox and famine ravaged the city during the time Cortes was regrouping in Tlaxcallan territory or anythi- oh wait
>You will never lead a battalion of war lolis for the glory of the Swizz republic
Anybody want me to dump either man at arms osprey plates of mesoamerican troops and/or troop details/armanant details from this mesoamerican book I forgot the name of?
If the latter, i'd be starting with pic related, which is the 4th image I have, since the first 3 are about shield/banner types, and i'd rather dump those at the end and not the start
>Not oiling up your entire body and giving your male opponent a reach around
Weak, the true inheritors of Greco-Roman Wrestling are the Turks.
> Medieval Japan
What do you think?
The Maori were pretty crazy. Fuckers managed to adapt defenses capable of withstanding the British only within a few decades of contact
youtube.com
It seems they mixed with natives in america for centuries (from the pacific side). So the mapuches had maori influences , and even some maori words, they resisted the incas and the spaniards .
Zulu impi, scottish highlanders, sikh warriors. Knights could be considerd warriors as their life was devoted to war from a young age.
>tfw your nation's warrior culture was destroyed before you could experience it
>you're living in the descendant of the "civilization" that destroyed it
Maori had served on weastern ships so guns whete introduced to new zealand decades before colonisation started. Kiked of a huge set of tribal wars with musket armed tribes killing each other to regain mana. look up the maorii musket wars.
Weastern colonisation wasnt quite the shock it was for native americans.
why even live
Culture isn't static and never was.
>Maori invented trench warfare
LOL
Are you trying to imply something? That has nothing to do with my post, the old warrior culture of my nation was wiped away through conquest and cultural hegemony.