Tfw Charlemagne and Irene didn't get married

This is an intriguing idea tbhfamalam.

The navarreese and the leonese were doing a good job already

An actual union would have never happened.

didn't Charlemagne cry one time because he was saddened that he couldn't read? lmao what a baby

Once a barbarian, always a barbarian

CK2 strategy to success

But should my primary title be Byzantine Empire or Holy Roman Empire?

>not forming Francia aswell and getting gavelkind.

>Keep the Byzantine empire title for laws and LoR events and decisions.
>Rename it to Holy Roman empire for historical authenticity.

>not staying a kingdom and losing on purpose with gavelkind

Byzantine Empire for the sake of reforming Rome.

>Let's combine an "empire" of loosely-collected kingdoms that have to be put in their place with annual summer campaigns because they rebel all the time and a gradually crumbling "empire" whose only valuable asset is its capital because it neglects every other territory it has until its worth decays or is taken/splits away.

Thank God Charlemagne kept himself and his daughters home.

How was the Frankish Empire not an Empire?

Roman Emperor you idiot

Only a German would say this

Charlemagne was French.

Succession laws aren't something you can change easily, as you are likely to encounter strong resistance from the nobility and your sons. Had Charlemagne instaurated primogeniture, Francia would probably be torn apart in civil war

Charlemagne did have an alliance with the Byzantines and according to the terms he had to harras the Bulgars at Pesta where the border ran. Why he didn't mount a full on invasion is beyond me

You've played too much CK

Well yeah, like half of this board.

His empire was torn apart by civil war anyway, between his grandsons who couldn't agree on the succession.

> Had Charlemagne instaurated primogeniture, Francia would probably be torn apart in civil war

Yeah, except he was venerated by the pope and had only a single surviving legitimate son in the final years of his reign, making civil war unlikely.

He could have at least tried.

How many pieces do you think it would've been in after a decade Veeky Forums?

That depends on how many sons the burly Frank seeds into his Empress.

it would literally never have happened, the byzzies would never have accepted a barbarian as their emperor and Irene was already in the process of being ousted when that proposition happened

yeah good luck with that

If Charlemagne's realm was stable enough that he decided to conquer the Byzantine Empire, "who the Byzantines wanted to rule them" would be as relevant as "which religion the Saxons wanted to follow".

Byzanties had Sardinia too back then

yeah good luck with that

They had the chances to conquer the whole European Continent in which somehow they didn't.

Obviously, the civil war would take place after the death of Louis the Pious, between his three sons. It would depend on how stable he could keep the realm, though.
As for Charlemagne, why would he care to introduce primogeniture if he only had one son?

> Obviously, the civil war would take place after the death of Louis the Pious

But that would be already decades after the change of the law, a completely different generation used to that new law.

It would be like any other regular European monarchy, where younger sons get sidelined and settle.

> As for Charlemagne, why would he care to introduce primogeniture if he only had one son?

Thinking ahead.

Why point Belgrade out on the map if you're gonna put it in the wrong place?

>It would be like any other european monarchy
Except that primogenoture as a norm appeared much later, with the rise of the Capets. At the time, any landed title was considered as a propierty, and divided between sons upon the death of the owner, as sripulated in the Lex Salica. Charlemagne and Louis saw the division of the empire as something natural, because they didn't have any concept of Francia as something that needs to be preserved.

The Arabs and the Persians couldn't take them down, but sure, Charlie will do it no problem!

B Oдeccкoй oблacти кopью зaбoлeли 20 дeтeй из peлигиoзнoй oбщины, члeны кoтopoй oткaзaлиcь oт пpививoк. . Иcтoчник: censor.net.ua/n462459

> Except that primogenoture as a norm appeared much later, with the rise of the Capets

I meant in Europe as a whole, not the Franks specifically.

The only other Christian monarchies in Europe at the time were Francia, Asturias and some kingdoms in the british islands (Also the ERE, but i don't know if the franks would consider it a model to follow). All of those states hold as norm the division of the land between heirs, so I don't know what point did you tried to make.

Nah it wasn't colonised until recently

Why is everyone talking about succession when the emperorship wasn't heridtary and it's Charlemagne had one surviving son and it was his grand kids that fucked up
Because he feared the basques would betray him, so they did

the memes are eternal

This is basically what is going to happen to the MacDonald Bridge in Halifax, N.S. Canada!

Just came by to drop this redpill on Charles "the Great".
scribd.com/document/106343138/Frans-J-Los-The-Franks

He had Saxon blood to shed

Yes I heard that ISIS is going to deploy a bomb on the MacDonald Bridge as well too.

The Hell's Angeles are planning on a bomb on the MacDonald Bridge also too!

Roman Empire
Anyone claiming otherwise is a newfag idiot

hes talking about ck you faggot

Then CK2 is a shit game if there's not just a title of "Roman emperor" with two pretenders after Charlemagne.

I'm pretty sure CK has it, but you probably need to own actual Roman parts not Germany

>Charlemagne abandoning the retarded Germanic law of dividing property equally among sons would sufficiently great.

It wasn't unique to the Germans, the Slavs also had this retarded policy and it fucked up Poland for 200 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Bolesław_III_Wrymouth

If the Poles had a proper succession policy, the krauts would have never been able to interfere with them and history would have been a LOT different.

Sorry, двoюpoднaя cecтpa nobody speaks ayy lmao moon-speak here.

>
> > > Except that primogenoture as a norm appeared much later, with the rise of the Capets
> > I meant in Europe as a whole, not the Franks specifically.
> The only other Christian monarchies in Europe at the time were Francia, Asturias and some kingdoms in the british islands

The Slavs, both Eastern Christian the western pagan/Catholic Slavs followed the same stupid policy.

lmao Byzantines were still the primary superpower in the Mediterranean at the time, with hundreds of thousands of theme based soldiers and a big ass fleet. Charlemagne did good against Saxons and Lombard fuckboys, but the Byzzies were not that kind of chumps.

The biggest problem for this intermarriage was that Byzantines was the ongoing Iconoclasm an event that surely alienated the western clergy and the pope. The Pope started to play politics during this time because Byzantine empire was so busy fighting the Bulgars or court intrigues related with the iconoclasm that they figured that the a new boss in secular authority was way better than the Caesaropapism of before.

They were sort of allied but they were not really friendly with each other either, Charles would have surely had to intervene in a Byzantine civil war to enforce Irene's claim,also end the iconoclasm and deal with the Bulgarians. Charles figured that eastern expansion against the Slavs was more profitable as it was easier.

It was certainly possible and Byzantines did intermarry with Holy Roman Emperors in the future, because hre laws later allowed for dynastic successions it would not have fractured, but there was the problem of the inherent cultural divide.

but what would be the capital?

The Hell's Angeles and Halifax Regional Police are being rude to me!

It's also what kept Rus divided all the way until mongols came.
Everyone was a relative and they were all murdering each other non stop.
They kept fucking each other over even during mongol invasion because they figured it was a passing thing.

If one group of individuals had the ambition, the political cunning. and the organization, would it be possible to take all these empires on at once?

Hey I just fucking hate the Hell's Angeles and the Halifax Regional Police okay?

Perfectly Ultimate Roman Emperor EX, Paladin Mode.

>Largest and most important city in Europe
>Literal ass end of nowhere spa resort

In seriousness they'd probably maintain two capitals. The empire would be unified in name only.

women were always racetraitors

Basque Strongk.

>late empire romans expected women gibs
No wonder they fell

well the turkish solution to this problem was to have a mini civil war every time the sultan died to decide which prince was worthy of the throne

Hey Fuck You Halifax Regional Police!

Whatever this shit is about, go the fuck away.

Charlemagne was much stronger than the Byzantines. They feared him. But at the same time it would be hard for him to expand further than he did.

Did they?

who the fuck is halifax? what does the police have to do with anything? what's going on?

Feared Charlemagne? Of course they did. Even more so after the whole "Pope crowns him Emperor thing". People on Veeky Forums tend to underrate him. Even Charles V and Louis XIV were not nearly as powerful in their eras as he was in his.

Dude shut the fuck up! This isn't even on topic of the conversation we're discussing right now okay?

>People on Veeky Forums tend to underrate him
Agreed. I doubt he realistically posed an existential threat to the Byzantine Empire, but that doesn't mean they didn't regard him as such at the time - and the Franks were certainly a threat to Byzantine influence and regional aspirations in Italy/around the Adriatic.

I think people tend to overstate the chances of unification resulting from a marriage between Charlemagne and Irene, but there's a pretty strong chance fears of unification in the Byzantine court played some part in Irene's overthrow.

Well Halifax is a city in the province of Nova Scotia, Canada so which I've been to there before and it was alright for the most part of the trip.

I don't speak Slavshit. What does this say?

Look just shut the fuck up alright! Geeze!