You are all my children, I love you all :)

Crying and teeth clutching is hardly suffering, might as well means they're on cocain+LSD or some crazy drug

So you are denying it? Amazing.

>by the way if you don't worship me you'll burn in hell forever :^)

If you follow Moses and don't worship Jesus, you'll definitely get what you deserve for treason against the gods and the King.

youtube.com/watch?v=BIENFWTAKnw

>true God freely offers and instructs humanity on how to obtain eternal salvation

God has NEVER offered anything to me, at all. He hasn't so much as spoken to me. All I have is a book that MEN tell me is "inspired by god". This is not how an all-powerful being would go about "freely instructing" his creation, if God wanted me to know that the Bible is true, then I WOULD know it.

It does if you CREATED THEM AND THE UNIVERSE THEY OPERATE IN, you fucktard.

Please read any decent book on theology so you can refrain from making such awful posts in the future

>God has NEVER offered anything to me, at all.
He left behind a Church for you to enter into and instruct you on the means of your salvation
>He hasn't so much as spoken to me.
He does, constantly.
>All I have is a book that MEN tell me is "inspired by god".
How is the omnipotent eternal God going to describe himself to humanity?
Human beings are fearful creatures, if something like that happened it would probably obliterate all who were in contact with Him
>This is not how an all-powerful being would go about "freely instructing" his creation, if God wanted me to know that the Bible is true, then I WOULD know it.
See above. If you are asking to be whacked over your head with incontrovertible evidence then your decision isn't free

How?
Let's say I have a billion dollars and know where you live
I know who your favorite living musical artist is and I know a venue near you where they can perform
I book them, prepare the venue, and somehow you come to know that they're playing there
Have I decided for you? No, because you're still constrained by your decision. You may not want to see them live, you may not like that venue, you may not want to go alone and can't find a companion. Regardless of all my actions to bring you to a certain point in time and space, it's still your decision.

>b-b-but it's just a methaphore
lmao, that's why christianity is declining

Again, books written by MEN, not the word of God. What need has God for books? Doesn't he want to save the illiterate? If he wants me to know he exists, well, he's ALL POWERFUL so I think he could do so without needing to rely on men and their books.

>He left behind a Church for you to enter into

Saint Paul is God? Huh.

>How is the omnipotent eternal God going to describe himself to humanity?

Perfectly? And without effort on his part? Or was that meant to be a rhetorical question? Because we're talking about GOD, he can do anything, remember?

Mohammed isn't a prophet.
He just wanted money, power and women.

Perfect revelation means your decision isn't free, my friend.
More than reasonable means for understanding salvation and receiving the sacramental signs that ensure it has existed for 2000 years, please catch up.

>Saint Paul is God? Huh.
ebin meme

>Have I decided for you?

Are you God? Did you create me, and the universe I live in? No? Then what the fuck are you babbling about? You want an analogy, try this: I write a program that will calculate and print out the prime numbers. I turn it on. The program prints "2, 3, 5, 7, ...". Before it does its little calculation for the next number, I know it will be 11. Has my knowledge of this "determined" that the program will print out an 11? NO! It is the act of creating the program with the rules I used in the first place that determined this! God doesn't determine the future because he knows what's coming he determined the whole universe from beginning to end when he created it in the manner in which he did.

>all you have to do to be saved is seek redemption, you can do it at any time, even on your deathbed :)
>but if it's after you die then there's no backsies, you're stuck in Hell forever :^)

How do you know that muslims, jews or buddhists aren't right? what about those who would have liked to make the right choice but were just completely mistaken about what was the true religion?
How do you justify religious faith having an important genetic component and almost everyone keeping the religion of their parents with converts being demographically marginal so 99% "saved" were just lucky to be born in a family of the "right" religion?
Not magically seeing the truth in a random religion not even especially is credible is NOT a choice of refusing god.

Yup because a program that's designed to do nothing but spit out numbers in sequence is totally equatable to free will. that's just terrible circular logic on your part

Human beings have their entire life to see the Truth.
You can't make decisions after death.

>You can't make decisions after death.
Why not? People lose their free will when they die?

>Mohammed isn't a prophet.
>He just wanted money, power and women.

Neither is Moses, or most of the other authors of the Hebrew text, that's why the gospels exist and that's why Jesus promises hell to the followers of the Hebrew text.

For example, this fabricated story about King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon.

youtube.com/watch?v=D0qaQOXxpZc

>How do you know that muslims, jews or buddhists aren't right?
God in Islam is beyond comprehension in the sense that he will do wrong just for the sake of doing wrong and we just have to accept that despite doing wrong, because he is God, it is actually right. that basically denies the agency of all humanity and a contradictory, illogical God makes no sense
>jews
they had it right, but didn't recognize their Messiah
>buddhists
why would an omnipotent being create the world just for it to be an illusion designed to trap living creatures in it? it makes 0 sense

>what about those who would have liked to make the right choice but were just completely mistaken about what was the true religion?
God, in his infinite wisdom and mercy, can 100% save others outside the Church who through no fault of their own did not hear the Good News.
However if He does so, we have no way of knowing. We only know what He has taught us.

>God is delivering his message that will be passed down for centuries and spread throughout the Earth
>tailors his message entirely to first century Jews
Or what if it's because these ideas were made up BY first century Jews?

Join the army against idiotism! Enlist today! The aggressive idiots shall be killed fast. Blitz the world!

If god (notice my refusal to capitalize the g) is real, then why can't I see him? Haha! Christianity BTFO once again, better luck next time

>Perfect revelation means your decision isn't free, my friend.

Protip retard: omniscience and the fact that God created the Universe already means no free will. Also what value is a "free" choice based on limited information if the outcome is as catastrophic as you claim? I can "freely" let my child choose what flavor ice cream he gets, I can't "freely" let him run into traffic, not if I love him, anyway.

then why would they depict their Messiah is such a radically different way from how they imagined the Messiah in the OT?

>Yup because a program that's designed to do nothing but spit out numbers in sequence is totally equatable to free will. that's just terrible circular logic on your part

Explain to me why this is circular. Then explain to me at what point a sufficiently complex program becomes capable of "free will", and what, exactly that even means.

Because Jesus wasn't the Messiah so of course he couldn't do all that badass warrior shit.

>Protip retard: omniscience and the fact that God created the Universe already means no free will.
already been covered, but you keep using circular logic
>Also what value is a "free" choice based on limited information if the outcome is as catastrophic as you claim?
hence the Great Commission to instruct all of humanity
>I can't "freely" let him run into traffic, not if I love him, anyway.
but you cannot obligate him to NOT run into traffic if that's what he really wants to do
you can tell him no, you can create conditions where it is difficult, but ultimately if that's what he wants then that's what he's going to do.

ah but Isaiah describes the suffering servant in fantastic detail.

"They" being...? His disciples? Paul? Whoever wrote the Gospels? Jews at the time of Jesus didn't accept his claims to be Messiah for the simple and obvious reason that he didn't fulfil the prophecies of the Messiah. It was only much later that Christ became a pagan deity in his own right, his earthly followers mostly mourned him as a failed Messiah and continued being Jews.

That's just too convulated for me.
Let's be honest, if you lived in a timeline without christianism, why would you give any credence to a guy coming to you and explaining you all that?
>God, in his infinite wisdom and mercy, can 100% save others outside the Church who through no fault of their own did not hear the Good News.
However if He does so, we have no way of knowing. We only know what He has taught us.
See? 99% of humanity is somehox outside the scope of the true human history and will get a dispensation because christianism only concerned jews and romans.
The whole plot looks like a weird conspiracy where most of humanity don't really matters and that don't fit reality.

You don't know what circular logic means. That's not a question. Your attempts to "explain" are simply obfuscation and dishonesty. I'd like to think you're just a troll, but sadly every christcuck I've ever bothered with has displayed this self-same combination of mindlessness and arrogance. This fact, more than anything else, convinces me that your religion is false.

>Jews at the time of Jesus didn't accept his claims to be Messiah for the simple and obvious reason that he didn't fulfil the prophecies of the Messiah.

No Jew has ever demonstrated that "Yahweh" has any power whatsoever - because he doesn't because it's a false god. The Jews who were running Judea at the time almost certainly knew who they were betraying - being surrounded by pagans and definitely not completely cut off from trade and interaction and the like with them. It is likely enough that most of the hostages of the Jewish elite, the Jewish peasants, had no awareness of the gospel documents at all.

youtube.com/watch?v=BIENFWTAKnw

>Human beings are fearful creatures
well you got that right, if idea of hell did not exist nobody would believe in bible

>Jews don't exist

>God is the source of all goodness
>Hell is separation from God
>Hell is a place devoid of goodness
>ergo to be in Hell indicates intense suffering
It's not that hard to parse.

nice cope kafir

Varg did nothing wrong.

That's literally the exact same thing.

what happens to the people who die and never had a chance to hear about christianity?
like people in small remote tribes, do they go to hell?

Yeah, no.

Most people are children of the devil, born children of the devil, and never ask to be adopted into the Family of God.

Few find the narrow path that is Christ Jesus; most stay in the grip of satan and go to hell for it.

Who doesn't deserve to go to hell?

YHWH proved himself when he brought his people out of Egypt with his strong right hand, leaving Egypt leaderless, without a military, and impoverished. A condition that they have not recovered from since.

Yes.

When you die, you will be resurrected into one of two eternal bodies, one designed for hell, and one designed for heaven.

Hence "it is appointed a man once to die, and then the judgment."

Not "and then the second chance."

The bible is the word of God. Inspired by God. Full of God's truth, and God's plans. The pre-literate knew the bible better than you do.

Mohammad said Moses was a prophet.

Is Mohammad a liar?

dogs

Yeah, so what are you complaining about? Complaining that a place devoid of god is terrible is like complaining that water is wet.

True that. Just Pit Bulls.

>freely
An ultimatum isn’t a free choice broseph

Proof?

Mfw arguing with fedoras on christianity and the bible is like arguing with an artfag on biology and some textbook about biology

>comparing biology to Christianity
Biology will always be here, Christianity inevitably will die out and be replaced like all religions before it.

Are you seriously implying that the atheists here were the worst posters in that thread?

>doesn't read theology
>doesn't read philosophical opinions of church fathers
>doesn't read the bible
>talk about something he knows nothing about as if he knows everything while he clearly doesn't
>complain about the accurate comparison/analogy

>Biology will always be here, Christianity inevitably will die out and be replaced like all religions before it.
Biology will stop existing when the universe freezes. ;)

I read like half the thread and they are going in circles so i didn't bother with reading the rest desu

>doesn't read philosophical opinions of church fathers
But I do
>doesn't read the bible
But I do

Theists are the most condescending shitters, holy fuck. “No atheist has ever studied my shit LOL” Hang yourself.
>accurate
I just explained why it’s innaccurate.

Christianity has been in existence for 2 thousand years. There are only a few centuries before that with any recorded history. Are you retarded?

>There are only a few centuries before that with any recorded history.
Are YOU retarded?

>I do I do I do
If you are the OP then you clearly don't understand how salvation works.
>i just explained why it's inaccurate
I'll just rephrase. you said biology will always be here while Christianity..etc
I said Biology will stop existing when the universe freezes because biology is the science of studying living organisms. I hope you get it.
>theists are the most condescending shitters........HANG YOURSELF
That can go both ways. ATHEISTS ARE THE MOST CONDESCENDING SHITTERS HOLY FUCK. But I'm the most condescending person you will ever meet in your life so what's your point?

>If you are the OP
I’m not.
>I do, and it’s not the same thing. Biology won’t be mythology. I hope you get it.
>that can go both ways
>literally no u
You are a condescending shithead who assumes no atheists study theology, stop turning it around on me.

>I do, and it’s not the same thing. Biology won’t be mythology. I hope you get it
Didn’t mean to greentext this line.

Yes, all your heart desires. Study it for the rest of your life to the exclusion of all other things.

>i'm not.
Which is your first post?
>that can go both ways > literally no u
Yes it's literally no u.
>You are a condescending shithead..etc
At least i said that in my post that i'm a condescending person. Unlike you who calls others retards and shitheads in most of your posts.

lots of mistakes in the last part so ignore the grammar

>Which is your first post?
>I’m condescending for calling you a shithead
I called you a shithead because YOU are being condescending.
>at least I admit it so I’m better than you
Fucking juvenile one-up-man-ship.

...

>his first post is the one he replied to me with
oh okay..
>I called you a shithead because YOU are being condescending.
I can say that this is projecting but i won't.
>>at least i admit it so i'm better than you
No,I am being honest here i know im a condescending prideful fag and i believe that if i went to hell it will be for being an egoistic brick . We actually derailed the thread so let's stop.
I just realised i still has that ''sage in all spaces''

Semitic Religion is gay, become a naughty goy & fight against the perpetual cosmic niggatry of the Abrahamic Parasitism upon the human spirit.

Weird how christians argue exactly like Jews and have to dodge and avoid answering any actual questions. And if you do manage to squeeze something concrete out of them and point out how it contradicts other parts of their theology or the observable world they just spaz out and double down on sophistry.

>YHWH proved himself when he brought his people out of Egypt with his strong right hand, leaving Egypt leaderless, without a military, and impoverished. A condition that they have not recovered from since.

That never happened - it's proven that never happened. Egypt was strong until conquered by the Greeks in ~300 BC. After that it eventually became part of Rome.

Your Bible is a fraud, it has always been a fraud, it will always be a fraud. That's why Jesus promises hell to its followers because God is real, but not the "god" of the Jews.

youtube.com/watch?v=LyNykLz9UD0

>opinions of the church fathers
>opinions
oh you mean those guys who were in an intense political battle which ended up deciding the contents of the bible, the basis for your religion, and yet you don't question the motives behind what books went into the bible at all? You mean those guys?

Thats cool and all but why does a priest have to stand between me and god and why do i have to pay taxes to the church

How is this justified in the bible

>oh you mean those guys who were in an intense political battle which ended up deciding the contents of the bible, the basis for your religion, and yet you don't question the motives behind what books went into the bible at all? You mean those guys?

It's such a blatantly obvious scam that it's truly shocking that mortals think they're getting away with it.

youtube.com/watch?v=VEukg1GV2-o

Muhammad عليه السلام lost all of his prestige among the Quraysh because of Islam and had a camel stomach thrown on him. Then after Islam became successful he gave away all his wealth and died in poverty.

Many churches were against the emperor's ways of using the church as a political power. Check the eastern orthodox and the orientals (especially the oriental orthodox who got persecuted for it)

>The bible is the word of God
Why is it contradictory and historically inaccurate in a way that makes you think it is merely a fabrication that never happened in any way as long as you decide to check the fact with history?

>he brought his people out of Egypt
Historical proof?

>Mfw arguing with fedoras on christianity and the bible is like arguing with an artfag on biology and some textbook about biology

How so? Do fedoras have the audacity to force you to bring proof outside of the bible from an archeological or historic source maybe? Because I'm not atheist, but neither am I a fan of your god.

I think you didn't get my point. What i means is its like arguing with an illiterate (who never read any biology book) about biology

We have all read the bible, that's precisely why we don't believe it.

I will assume that you did. What you don't know is that christianity isn't just the bible there are also the church fathers books. a fun fact for you: if i gave you a textbook about medicine (or anything) and you read it you won't know what a junior in medicine school knows

>christianity isn't just the bible
Yes, christianity is the bible and the reason for this is that nobody ever met the biblical people because they are a literary creation that never existed, thus, your church fathers are scammers.

In fact the literary creation that is the bible tells you very clearly that you have to follow the command of the bible and ignore any text written by men, which would include said church fathers books.

Shit son, I'm not even that dude, I just got to admire you moving the goal posts so well.

Medical books aren't open to interpretation and manipulation to fit your agenda.

>god has list of 10 commandments he does not want you to do
>he has a special place for people to burn in hell for all eternity
>but he loves you!

Also, make sure you give the church tithing. Don't worry, we won't report how much we make or where it goes. We won't provide any real proof; much like God. Just trust us.

Just because christianity is false doesn't mean there's a god elsewhere, just saiyan.

Thanks. I'll file that in "shit that doesn't matter".

Sure, but since there is no proof we should not trust the concept.

People don't die for someone they didn't see. and jesus is a historical figure.
>follow command of the bible
Galatians 1:8. the church fathers didn't make a new gospel they just tried to explain/understand the gospel
You can't have an agenda (to gain political power or not) when you are persecuted and hated by everyone.
>you can't disown your beloved son even though he is a shitter who REJECTED YOU AS HIS FATHER
that's what the OP doesn't understand. and desu im sick of that ''argument'' because i see it every week or so here on his(or lit)
God being all loving doesn't mean he should stop being just
Matthew 25:41 Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. and by following satan you are one of his people.

Yes you can? The Jews have been kicked out of more places than any other demographic in history. That doesn't mean they can't have an agenda. Are you stupid? Besides, Christians haven't been "persecuted" since before the middle ages. Even when Rome wasn't Roman Catholic, Christians were still tolerated; they weren't ostracized.

Diocletian and others disagree with you.
>yes you can the jews have an agenda
controlling the world? go back to /pol/
and if you consider ''trying to survive'' an agenda (which i doubt) then yes they had an agenda