Feel like pure shit just want her back x

Even retards can live a very long time. What matters is what they do with that time. Byzantium only declined, and it only lasted so long because it had a massive head start in terms of resources because of what it inherited from Rome.

>Byzantium only declined,
Wrong. Byzantium was like roller coaster, declining then restoring them declining and restoring.

>ERE only declined
fuck off kraut

The only thing to take from this, is Christianity is a Jewish cult that can't even defend itself. Any military victories or campaigns attributed to Christianity is due to Europeans and European nationalism. The catholic and orthodox churches should apologize to North Africa, the Levant, Anatolia and the Balkans for putting up no resistance or effort in preventing them being conquered by Muslims.

It only ever "restored" halfway before the emperors got bored and gave up. And it only ever recovered when some outside force fucked up its enemies. The reconquests against the Arabs were precipitated by the collapse of the Abbasids. The conquest of Bulgaria was made possible by the invasion of the Rus (who did it lightning fast, while it took Byzantium decades to conquer a devastated Bulgaria). The Komnenean restoration piggybacked off of the First Crusade. The Nicean Empire only succeeded because Bulgaria fucked up both Epirus and the Latin Empire.

The Byzantines were only good at hiding behind their walls and coming out when some easy opportunity presented itself. Even then, their recoveries were always halfhearted.

This is quite possibly the most brainlet post I've seen all day.

Sounds like you're stumped.

>this isn't a decline

>increments of 100 years
there are empires that don't even last 100 years brainlet

>inherit territories conquered by pagan Romans
>Christian Greeks party for a thousand years until all they have is a desolate rump state surrounded by Turks

Sounds like a decline, bub.

And it only took the full force of Europe and the Turks to bring them down.

>yfw the Byzantines didn't even lose most of their army at Manzikert, and the Seljuk Sultan only extracted the promise of gold and some border territories, a promise which was never honored
>yfw despite being a still decent position, the Byzantines still fucked it up by losing 2/3rds of their empire to Turkish freebooters who weren't affiliated with any state
>yfw the Seljuk Sultan even offered to help the Byzantines expel the Turks from Anatolia, but the Byzantines failed to capitalize on this
>yfw the Byzantine Empire was nearly destroyed by smelly bandit goatherders

The Byzantines didn't lose most of their territories to Turkish freebooters, at least not immediately after Manzikert. The unaffiliated Turks came in as countryside tribes while a lot of Byzantine officials remained in power.

The real trouble started when the absence of a strong emperor allowed ambitious officials in Anatolia to fight each other, sometimes with Turks as mercenaries on all sides. Some did, however, but many of these were expelled by the Byzantines, but using Turkish vassals to replace them. As the usual intrigues followed however, these vassals along with many other non-Turkish ones rebelled, or were taken over by independent emirs, or passed down to disloyal sons and brothers.

However, these losses weren't any more unique or permanent than any other rebellions when imperial power was weak. What finally caused a permanent loss was the establishment of rival crowns. The Sultanate of Rum was established when a Seljuk pretender fled to Anatolia and united the Turkish tribes on the eve of the First Crusade, and like what Norman Sicily did for Southern Italy the Sultanate forever cut off Central Anatolian Turkish loyalty from Byzantine rule - though this was a slow process that wasn't final until just before the Fourth Crusade.

>those bandits were no big deal until we allowed them to become powerful enough to crown themselves rulers and invade us

I think I want her back but in reality if Byzantium existed I would probably hate them same as I hate all foreigners.

Such a big greece would probably have to pay a lot more denbts

stop hating foreigners then?

How realistic is this scenario?

>Byzantium survives until the Industrial Revolution
>is hated by the Great Powers because it's some haughty Eastern European thing claiming to be the Roman Empire
>Serbs, Bulgarians, and Armenians resent imperial misrule, come to believe that they are separate nationalities and should secede from the empire
>revolts from minorities are ruthlessly crushed, war crimes are committed on the same scale as Basil blinding 15,000 Bulgarians at Kleidion
>Byzantines have trouble modernizing because it would disrupt their sacred traditions which date back to the Roman Empire
>gets its shit inevitably smacked down after going to war with one too many Great Powers
>is partitioned and survives with only the most homogenous Greek areas retained
>gets fucked up by communist and republican revolutions
>remains a regional power because of its control of the straits, but is hated because of its historic mistreatment of minorities and its claims to being Rome
>other countries simply call it Greece something like "Greek Romania" to avoid acknowledging it as the Roman Empire

Because that's how I imagine it would have gone down.

I see them more like italians 2.0. where everyone wonders why it took them so long to get their shit together and them being bad at war

It depends on what state the empire was in in this fictional scenario. At what point are we assuming the decline stops?
Also the points about the Westerners hating Byz because they claim to be the Roman Empire is not exactly right. It was acknowledged that they were the Roman Empire, just that they were weak, Orthodox, and simply Byzantine. Mutual animosity between East and West created the hatred, not the West resenting the Eastern hold on the imperial title.

How did they manage to have borders that aestethic?
I mean just look at them: the perfect line that follows the Danube, Magna Graecia, that little bit of Crimea, the benis which expands into Syria, just perfect.

VENETIAN'D

Every civilized man does, but the harsh truth is that it's not coming back,

But what if the turks were christian?

>tfw Mehmed II actually considered converting to Christianity upon conquering Constantinople because he was that much of a Romeaboo
>but then he didn't

It's not about the religion, it's about the culture. Byzantium and Constantinople without the greek culture and heritage would not be the same opulent, exotic and scholarly place we know it for, even if it was still Christian.

As if christian turks couldn't adopt eastern roman culture rather than persoanized culture like IRL
I think it was possible, at the time of manzikert many turk immigrants were still pagan, if the byzzies didn't cave as much as they did they could have demanded that the immigrants convert to christianity.

>persoanized
persianized*

*open rp*
nothing personal, kid

white has nothing to do with genes.

Wait who broke the promise?

Romanos was immediately overthrown in a civil war. Nobody had the authority or the resources to give the Turks what was promised.

imagine how happy Sultan was as a result of this lol

>In the meantime, the opposition faction scheming against Romanos IV decided to exploit the situation. The Caesar John Doukas and Michael Psellos forced Eudokia to retire to a monastery, and they prevailed upon Michael VII to declare Romanos IV deposed.[18] They then refused to honor the agreement made between Arslan and the former emperor.[32]

>Romanos soon returned, and he and the Doukas family gathered troops. A battle was fought at Dokeia between Constantine and Andronikos Doukas and Romanos, in which the army of Romanos was defeated,[8] forcing him to retreat to the fortress of Tyropoion, and from there to Adana in Cilicia. Pursued by Andronikos, he was eventually forced to surrender by the garrison at Adana upon receiving assurances of his personal safety.[33]

>Before leaving the fortress, he collected all the money he could lay his hands on and sent it to the Sultan as proof of his good faith, along with a message: "As emperor, I promised you a ransom of a million and a half. Dethroned, and about to become dependent upon others, I send you all I possess as proof of my gratitude".[34]

What happened afterwards?

Emperor Romanos surrendered to his rivals, was blinded, and died of his infection. Alp Arslan moved on to fight other enemies and died shortly after. The Byzantines never fought another war with the Seljuk Empire, but the aftermath of Manzikert did cause an outbreak of civil war, and independent Turkish tribes exploited the situation and migrated into Anatolia. Often the tribes were invited to serve as mercenaries for one warlord or another, but they inevitably took over wherever they settled. All of Anatolia was taken over. Byzantium did become resurgent after Alexios Komnenos took the throne in 1081.

From 1071-1081, Byzantium nearly collapsed and lost 2/3rds of its empire to Turks. It was a clusterfuck.

Fuck off Varg

I told you crackers to not whitewash us.

Why do crackers want to whitewash us so badly? Is it because you're a dying out race and want more members?

Sorry, but just as how our ancestors wrecked whites in Anatolia, we will put an end to the white race in Europe along with our Black and Middle Eastern brothers.
You can do nothing about it.
You can only die under our trucks.

That's not what happened. Like with the Latins, the problem was the establishment of kingdoms by outsiders. This created a court culture and aristocracy that was separated from Constantinople. Had there been no Norman Sicily, Crusader States, Armenian Cilicia, or Seljuk Rum, you would have had pretenders to the Imperial throne instead.

They did demand conversion to accept Turks and others into their ranks. That was part of the problem. You see Byzantine glory in their Orthodox Christianity, but that was part of the reason they collapsed. The various rival powers that crippled Byzantine authority flourished because of ethnic and religious chauvinism. Anti-Latin attitudes led to Venetian and Frankish animosity. Anti-Pagan and Muslim attitudes kept the Anatolian Turks and Arabs at arm's length. And Orthodox hostility to rival churches and languages caused conflicts with other Eastern Christians.

i honestly see a scenario where byzantium survived as a qing china sort of situation. they would be bogged down and stagnant, and weak to outside force despite boasting significant economic power or potential, and would see itself be cut up into spheres of influence (but not annexed to preserve the balance of power) until imperialism collapses. all the while there is much internal strife that eventually settles down into a modern state that is catching up with the west. this is assuming byzantium doesnt enter any catastrophic wars, of course.

Turkey is getting overran with Kurds faster than Europe is with immigrants

>posting 11th century cum dumpster for arabs and not Justinian's Rome restored

IIRC Manuel Komnenos was pissed that the church required Muslims to shit talk Muhammad before converting. It was petty and deterred people who were understandably reticent about renouncing their traditional faith.

We can deal with our minorities.

>Constantly innovate in Diplomacy and strategy for 1000 years
>Deal with at least 3 military fronts constantly for centuries
>Keep a robust military and economy during the feudal collapse of Europe
Surely incompetent.

Tfw they actually made it to Rome

Race is a social construct that us whites invented to keep people like you down.

Why are you making shit up? Stop listening to the man, stop listening to spooks, stop listening to your own prejudices, life is far too short to hate my friend.

>ywn be able to see all the different alternate futures of the Byzzies surviving and see what sort of stuff happened.
Do you think Heaven will allow you to see the other potential strands of fate?

>Race is a social construct that us whites invented to keep people like you down

first of all: race is not a social construct
but whites are artifical. you were created by yakub. therefore we cannot consider whites as people.

You clearly can't seeing what ruckus they are causing in the Middle East

is there anything worse than a byzaboo?

Nope
A pathetic state with its fanboy keep clinging to "muh Roman" to feel relevant deserves to be destroyed

...

How could the Byzantines have survived? Was all hope lost by that time?

Assuming the enemy is at the gates, would there be any way to save the city and turn the tide? What about if the walls were fully manned?

And what would happen if as the janissaries stormed the walls they were met by a line of the fine blood of the Confederacy, lead by a 9 month pregnant Anne Frank? Would a 15 year old Dutch Jewish girl with raging hormones be able to defeat the turkroach army? How would the separation from Peter play into all of this?

Would the Turk fear the Southern Warrior? Would Charles II teach the Byzantine emperors the wisdom of absolute monarchism and inspire them with the Divine Right of Kings? Would General Lee be able to lead the battered Roman Legions to stop the encroaching Mohemmadans?

Never have I seen a post that so perfectly encapsulates the mentality of the average Veeky Forums poster

byzantine territory wasn't what the turks were after anyhow, they wanted to oust the "heretic shias" at cairo

What the fuck did I just read?

>20k turks is the full force of all the turks
>one crusade gone wrong is all the power of europe

Iraq isn't part of turkey and even their the arabs put the kurds in their place.

Amalgam of Veeky Forums memes

It's unlikely that the fourth crusade doomed the ERE. You could almost see it as yet another dynastic war just with a Latin player in the mix.

Apart from the dissolution of the empire into 3-4 factions, sure.

An intact Empire would feast on Turk carcasses during the Mongol period.

>

Opportunities were of course missed.

But Turks are wh*te subhumans
Can't wait till kurds bulls will finally BLaCK your cracker asses and breed your women with good Melanin.

Could've worked in "weak men make hard times" line.

Southerners can't beat liberals and blacks how are they gonna stop Ottomans?