Can the holodomor be considered a genocide...

can the holodomor be considered a genocide? i see alot of Ukrainians (or far right wingers when convenient) say it was and while Ukraine was targeted quite heavily, soviet documents don't show any discrimination in those targeted between ethnic Ukrainians,Russians,Polls,or Jews. So couldnt the higher rates in Ukraine be explained by it being the most productive part of the soviet union?

>Area with the most farmland takes a famine the hardest
Who'd have guessed?

It can and it is in several countries including the US

Yes. The USSR can't hide behind "we were only killing farmers" when they knew that they were disproportionately killing Ukrainians. That's like saying the Holocaust wasn't a genocide because "we were only killing journalists and bankers".

The Jew who coined the term genocide said so.

How can anyone call it genocide, when Kazahstan and southern Russia were hit just as hard as Ukraine?

This.

Famines usually work the other way around, where cities would starve first and then the villages. When the flow of grain to cities stop because the farmers have none to spare, you seen an exodus to the countrysides in order to find food.

The exception is when there's a command economy collecting grain from the countryside in order to feed the cities, such as the case with the holodomor. The Soviets intentionally moved grain out of Ukraine to feed Russia, which would bolster the argument that the famine was man-made and intentional.

"Great Russia" and Belarus suffered the least during the famine, Ukraine and the muslim-stans, suffered the most. The conclusion is pretty simple to see.

The perfidious Ukrainian makes us forgot the other millions

Wasn't a genocide. There was famines all over the Soviet Union

Famine wasn't man-made. It happened without Stalin's intervention, but Stalin prefered that kulaks and separatists starve, rather than industrial workers. Cunty, yet cunning.

>kulaks and separatists
typical, gas kys

Famines have been happening almost every decade before 1930s. And only soviet government did things to prevent new famines, something that Imperial govt couldn't do or decided not to do.

>American Indians just happen to die off on land the US wants
>Totally accidental, nothing to see here
>Irish just happen to starve by the millions
>Silly drunks simply cannot grow potatoes, old chap, tally ho!

It was already a well-established tradition among civilized nations, though.

Not to be outdone, the Chinese had their own knock-off version perfected 20 years later.

The US didn't have a cohesive genocide policy for the Amerindians, in fact in many cases the states would start shit with them and the federals would have to come in and keep the peace.

>though the landlords hold a lot of land, imperial govt respects property rights and agreements and does not steal grain from peasants
>famines have natural causes and do not kill millions upon millions

>soviets sends red trains to take grain from peasants
>accuses them of selling grain for profit despite having no means to smuggle it out of the USSR, one of the most oppressive totalitarian dictatorships in history
>accuses them of hiding grain even as they starve
>0.000001% of "Kulaks" burned a little grain that was going to be stolen from them anyway, this proves a full 100% of peasants were evil capitalist Kulaks who had lots of grain hidden and intentionally starved themselves to death and burned their own grain just to spite innocent Stalin
>soviets make token efforts to alleviate famine so they are better
>mysteriously these efforts have no effect in the Ukraine

I'm detecting a hint of bias, but you identify as left wing and from /leftypol/ which means you are smart and morally upstanding so I believe everything you say.

>didn't have a cohesive genocide policy for the Amerindians

Of course they didn't, that would look bad after all. None the less they wrote the manual on both genocide and apartheid while wanking to songs of freedom.

Well maybe if those native Siberans hadn't occupied land God gave the Anglo-Saxon we wouldn't have had to chase them off it. Also on a more realistic note while Manifest Destiny eventually won out there was a lot of debate about what to do with Amerindians

>>though the landlords hold a lot of land, imperial govt respects property rights and agreements and does not steal grain from peasants
1916 - first prodrazvyorstka, because of landlords making the grain prices grow.
In 1890s landlords were more eager to sell the grain abroad instead of suppluying the famine victims.
>all mentioned stuff
You're mixing different facts and events at the same time.
One thing is "military communism" politics which took place during Civil War, when both bolsheviks and their enemies were making prodrazverstkas.
Other thing is collectivisation politics, the main purpose of which was to unite the spread households into collective farms, which would produce enough grain for all kinds of consumers, and to free some of peasants from the village work, so they could leave for the cities and employ on the factories and construction teams.
The newly-built factories would produce fertilisers and mechanical means of crope collecting, which were unavalible in Russian Empire - tractors were imported and too expensive for average kulak and fertilisers were imported as well or produced in insufficient quantities.

Maybe

This

No, is of natural)))

The famine was man made, because surprise, severe disruptions to the agricultural structure caused by collectivization decrease the output of grain.

Collectivized farms are shit, and have never worked basically anywhere. All collectivized farms have had to privatize to a degree to make up for crippling shortages, or not if the ruler is Stalin/Mao tier stupid.

Without the disruptions of collectivization, the famine of 1930-1933 would just be the hunger of 1930-1933.

>Collectivized farms are shit, and have never worked basically anywhere.
Israelian kibbutzes would like to sell you some shit.

>So couldnt the higher rates in Ukraine be explained by it being the most productive part of the soviet union?
>Ukrainians starved because they made the most food

Why are tankies so pants-on-head retarded?

Yes it's fucking fake news. schools in ukraine where even in ukrainian

>believing the uke's lies

>Willing collectives vs unwilling collectivization.

It killed mostly Ukrainians.
>b-bu-
I guess the Holocaust wasn't a genocide because the Nazis also killed Slavs?

OY VEY SIX MILLION PERISH