What would hypothetically happen, if Czechs refused to give up Sudetenland?

Well, if Czechs woudn't act like faggots, and reduse to give up Sudetenland, just like Poles refused to give up Danzig corridor, French, British and Poles would find Czechs worth saving and support them diplomatically.

>Stalin would want to help the Czechs and Poles
>Stalin
>"helping" Poles
infernal kek

If Poland would join in Czechs, Germany would be defeated

they had had less time to prepare and organize in 1938, and capturing Czechoslovakia gave them a huge amount of armaments, not to mention its industry

Germany would not be able to invade them in 38. Prague is the industrial hearthland of central europe, their army is equipped well enough to stop any advances

>p*les would not be giant faggots and actually honor the treaty
What? There was never a treaty between Czechoslovakia and Polan. But Stalin offered Beneš to help him against Hitler even without France.
Czechoslovakia actualy had 3 to 1 supperiority on Austrian borders+ "fortifications werent completed yet around Austria" is a meme.
>there would be mass-defections from the Germans
most g*rms refused to mobilize
>and Slovaks
let this meme die pls

*Poland

>literally whole world signed an agreement saying Czechs should give up Sudetenland
>"but if you would refuse, we would help for sure"

Well Slovaks were pretty buttmad about Czechs, if Hitler offered them some territorial gains, its not really that much far-fetched to think they would join him. But then there would be the issue with Hitler already having Horthy on his side.

what about some source for that mate

cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pribinovy_slavnosti

Dunno about English sources, but its pretty well known that Slovaks were unsatisfied with Prague's centralization, Czechization and wanted larger autonomy

there is difference between wanting autonomy and fighting on the side of eternal Kraut

>the conspirators needed strong British opposition to Hitler's seizure of the Sudetenland. However, Neville Chamberlain, apprehensive of the possibility of war, negotiated at length with Hitler and eventually conceded strategic areas of Czechoslovakia to him. This destroyed any chance of the plot succeeding, as Hitler was then seen in Germany as the "greatest statesman of all times at the moment of his greatest triumph", and the immediate risk of war had been neutralized

AAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLBBBBBBBBBBBBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ANGLO'D

Lol not even close. Germans would get to Prague in a week tops, Slovakia declares Independence by then, we would probably just surrender.

Basically everything possible played against Czechoslovakia. No allies, no air force worthy speaking of, more than half of population had opinion of the state ranging from indifferent to openly hostile. Active and numerous German paramilitaries provided intelligence, they were often better armed than Czechoslovak army itself. Literal German Nazi party won last prewar election.

And not only were we outnumbered.Emphasis was put on French model of static defenses, which failed later in war in much more preferable circumstances (Czechoslovak fortifications were small, badly supply-able , deep in german speaking territory). And they of course weren't complete. Generality was mostly out of touch, completely misunderstanding the role of aircraft on modern battlefield. Most of the air force consisted of light bombers for some reason. No anti-aircraft command or reporting service was in place so they would most likely get destroyed on the ground anyway. Only place where we had a technological edge were tanks. But they were distributed on a division level, meaning they would quickly get encircled and destroyed even with German light tanks.

Meanwhile Masaryk and Beneš were more concerned with Habsburg restoration than trying to mend relations with Poland

There was no border between Czechoslovakia and UdSSR

In an orthodox war without fancy Manstein tactics, Germany would have depleted their artillery shells within two months against France and it would've been a steady withdrawal from that point on. And getting nipped in the side by Poland wouldn't be helping.

>Active and numerous German paramilitaries provided intelligence, they were often better armed than Czechoslovak army itself. Literal German Nazi party won last prewar election.
>And not only were we outnumbered.Emphasis was put on French model of static defenses, which failed later in war in much more preferable circumstances (Czechoslovak fortifications were small, badly supply-able , deep in german speaking territory). And they of course weren't complete. Generality was mostly out of touch, completely misunderstanding the role of aircraft on modern battlefield. Most of the air force consisted of light bombers for some reason. No anti-aircraft command or reporting service was in place so they would most likely get destroyed on the ground anyway. Only place where we had a technological edge were tanks. But they were distributed on a division level, meaning they would quickly get encircled and destroyed even with German light tanks.

Go back to /pol/ you fucking retard

>more than half of population
...were Czechs

>week tops
You overestimate German capabilities back then, especially their oil reserves and intel on the fortifications.

>they were often better armed than Czechoslovak army itself.
How exactely? They had nothing else than small arms.

> Most of the air force consisted of light bombers for some reason.
B-534 were (biplane) fighters, though.

that's exactly what happened a half year later. They accepted territorial loses under condition they don't get swallowed by Hungary. Your average slovak soldier wasn't excited about fighting Germans in Czechia.

>Your average slovak soldier wasn't excited about fighting Germans in Czechia.
Your average Slovak soldiers would be fighting Hungarians in Slovakia, somehting he would be rather excited about.

>that's exactly what happened a half year later.

You mean after they were forced to give up half their country?

>No allies
USSR, Yugoslavia and Romania are no allies, ok
>no air force worthy speaking of
literally second best fighters in the world
>more than half of population had opinion of the state ranging from indifferent to openly hostile
citation needed
>they were often better armed than Czechoslovak army itself
citation needed, also Czechoslovak army had 3x more automatic weapons in infantry division that G*rms
>Literal German Nazi party won last prewar election.
because suprisingly parasitic minorities always vote for their local strongest party, while Czechs and Slovaks had to choose between several others, Jewish voting and financial support of SdP also helped
>Emphasis was put on French model of static defenses
and combination of this with highly mobile divisions
>Czechoslovak fortifications were small
citation needed
>badly supply-able
citation needed
>deep in german speaking territory
irelevant
>And they of course weren't complete
literally the only thing that was missing were tunnels between all forts that werent even required
>Generality was mostly out of touch
citation needed
>completely misunderstanding the role of aircraft on modern battlefield
citation needed
>Most of the air force consisted of light bombers for some reason
fighters arent "light bombers", also B-71 (SB-2) was the the most modern bomber in the world
>No anti-aircraft command
citation needed
>or reporting service
citation needed
>But they were distributed on a division level
they were distributed in brigades you autist

*are not allies

>literally second best fighters in the world
>also B-71 (SB-2) was the the most modern bomber in the world
Look, we all love Czechoslovak airforce, but come on...

>Jewish voting and financial support of SdP also helped
Well, except for overwhelming support of Jews to the Republic.

look at the air competition in Zürich in 1937, B-534 won the second place and Krauts had to remove MGs from their planes to make it faster, Czechoslovakia also won all maneuvering competitions,
>Well, except for overwhelming support of Jews to the Republic.
Jews were the second biggest group that voted for SdP. There were some exceptions, but Kikes and Krauts were always on the same side in Slavic countries.

I agree with you that his post was full of shit, but the air force bit is true. Luftwaffe would wreck the dozen planes CZSK had in first days of the war.

Germ airforce was absolutely shit until summer 1939.
Numbers: 470x He 111
200x Ju 86
300x Do 17
120x Ju 87
150x Hs 123 (shitty biplane bomber)
510x Bf 109 (470 of them were noncanon versions)
400x Ar 68 (shitty biplane fighter)
150x He 45 M (shitty biplane bomber)
50x He 70 (Fairey Battle-tier autism)
40x Hs 126 (recon)

Czechoslovak airforce had 970 planes, out of those about 550x B-534 that are after Bf-109s best planes in conflict and 61x B-71 (SB-2)

Krauts had lack of fuel, spare parts, bombs and also pilots.
Ju-87 are their only bombers that can be effectively used for anything that isnt just barbaric bombing of civilian areas, but as i said, they had 120 of them.

>B-534 won the second place
In Biplane category? By '38 Luftwaffe already had Bf 109, while B35 was just a prototype that still needed a lot of work.

>Jews were the second biggest group that voted for SdP
Like if non-German voters of SdP counted more than dozen...

>frogs and p*les would not be giant faggots and actually honor the treaty

what are you talking about?

>In Biplane category?
no, long-range time category "Zurych– Thun – Bellizona – Zurych" D-510
First was Bf-109 V-8 (with removed MGs), time was 56 min 47,1 s, 387 km/h being avarage speed. Second was B-534 with 63 min 32,8
s and avarage speed 350 km/h. Third and fourth were also B-534, fifth was French D-510 with 68 min 34,4 s.
>Like if non-German voters of SdP counted more than dozen...
almost all Jews in Czechoslovakia voted for Hitler, SdP also got huge amount of money from local (((industrialists)))

when the germans seized the sudetes, poland stole a village in silesia and both the french and british did nothing

>deep in german speaking territory
>irelevant

it's going to get relevant pretty quickly once their militia disrupts supply network, destroys your railway, monitors your troop movements and attacks your bunkers from behind and you can't do anything about that without investing disproportional resources you don't have in the first place. Most of those bunkers were never going to see any fighting anyway, wehrmacht would just find and exploit weaknesses in line, like they did every single time they encountered static fortifications. Czechs would quickly found themselves 20km behind front lines realizing you can't really do any effective troop movement with enemy air superiority.

you mean the one Czechs stole when Bolsheviks invaded Poland

but what treaty are you talking about? French and Britain made a point in giving nothing more than vague promises of friendship.

...

how did they managed to stole it when war with Bolsheviks started 3 months afterwards?
>their militia disrupts supply network
supplying of forts wasnt part of the plan, they had enough of ammo, also Kraut Freikorps was basicaly destroyed or expulsed back to the Germany by October
>attacks your bunkers from behind
you played too much Men of War
>wehrmacht would just find and exploit weaknesses in line
good luck finding weak line between forts that are all made the same way

I suppose that's the upside, you don't need to worry about logistics if your forces are going to get annihilated in 2 days.

do you know that pillboxes/forts have their own food storages

>massing troops on border without protecting flanks

what could possibly go wrong

>what are designated garrison troops that are part of the border guard

Why would Whites have any claim on Lviv when it was part of Austria before the war?
Silly Czech

Lviv isnt another name for Kiev mate

>almost all Jews in Czechoslovakia voted for Hitler
Yea, I can totally imagine a Jew throwing the ballot while thinking that Jews should be exterminated, since they are responsible for every evil. Not to mention, no one in Czechoslovakia could ever vote for Hitler.

>no, long-range time category
And this makes you think a biplane could hold off against the workhorse of Luftwaffe?

SdP wasnt that radical. Their program was mostly anti-czech stuff Kikes supported. Also by Hitler i mean SdP which was his puppet party.
>And this makes you think a biplane could hold off against the workhorse of Luftwaffe?
That biplane has almost the same speed, much better maneuverability and same or better weapons.

It's hard to take you seriously when you say kikes

>Also by Hitler i mean SdP which was his puppet party.
SdP wasn't under Hitler by 1935 (When there were last Czechoslovak elections).

>Their program was mostly anti-czech stuff Kikes supported
Again, I'm not sure if your brain can swallow it, but Jews overwhelmingly supported the republic. If you want to challenge the consensus you must have solid evidence. Also you ain't on /pol/, so >That biplane has almost the same speed, much better maneuverability and same or better weapons.
Biplanes were already becoming obsolete by 1938, while Bf 109 was workhorse of luftwaffe throughout the entire war. Heck Luftwaffe used both Avias and Bf 109s during Fall Weiss, they were not trated as equal machines.

>Pribinovy_slavnosti

>SdP wasn't under Hitler by 1935
this is just a shitpost right
>Jews overwhelmingly supported the republic
thats post war propaganda
>Biplanes were already becoming obsolete by 1938
only because it is biplane doesnt mean its worse, D-510 isnt biplane and its shitty plane

>this is just a shitpost right
Learn2history, user. It's much deeper than you would through.

>thats post war propaganda
That's just an empty claim. If you want to make outrageous claims and not to be laughed at, you have to provide proofs.

>only because it is biplane doesnt mean its worse
Name one biplane relevant in WW2. D-510 was shit because it was obsolete design by '38.

you want me to provide proofs but you proof that B-534 is obsolete is nonexistent

*your proof

Claim that biplanes were pretty much obsolete in WW2 is not outrageous, it's common knowledge. Just look how many kills did Avias earned during WW2.

how many kills did Meteor got in WW2. Haha got ya mate.

>subhuman slavshits with tiny populations defeating the germanic master race

So what, if Germany fought Poland a year before, would charging tanks with horses be somehow more effective? brainlet.

Kill yourself you retarded piece of shit.

whoa, what a great argument coming from a Slavshit subhuman.

There was no charging tanks with horses, you imbecile faggtard. And Wehrmacht was an absolute trash in 1938

just fucking kill yourself. fucking nigger subhuman Slav, you're barely above a cockroach.

Not an argument.

Turtledove already did this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_That_Came_Early

Also Anne Frank probably survived in this timeline so Veeky Forumsfags everywhere can rejoice when she lives a normal including married and getting pregnant.

What the fuck even is this sophistry? Meteors served only in the last year of war in small numbers and actually downed German aircraft.

There's a high chance of betrayal by the sl*vakians but yeah Sudetenland was highly defensible and rugged territory and they had renowned artillery with Skoda

Shit bait

kekkoslovakia was an abomination and a non country

it served no purpose and had no friends, its faith was sealed, they were lucky enough to collaborate to avoid extermination

>Butthurt
>Doesn't know english

Polack?

>czechen has no friend
>calls other butthurt

dont forget to LARP as a german few posts later, shitstain

Well, just don't steal anything here, OK?

Beck offer Czechs to join them if they decide to go to war.
Germany was much weaker at this time - they get stronger when they put hands on all that sweet Czech tanks and arty.

You better make the same meme about Lithuanians or Latvians.

Nah. Polacks like pepiks even if peipks do not like them.
Its probably hohol.
they hate everyone including themselves.

I understand that they had a pretty decent and large army. They could have given it a sporting try but would have inevitably lost out to the Hun's vast war machine.
France and Britain would have screamed bloody murder but I don't think would have declared war or considered it worth trying to intervene, considering their mentality of appeasement at the time, as well as the costs of getting involved vs. what minuscule gains they might achieve from such a conflict.

>Military-wise, they would be able to hold up for couple of months at least
No they wouldn't, it would have fallen even easier than Poland.

The defenses on the German border lacked sufficient depth, being 5 kilometers at their deepest, and only 0.1 kilometers at their narrowest. All of Czechoslovakia's notable industry was in the border regions. Worse, in 1938 the fortified border was not complete, and heavy artillery in particular was lacking. The line was manned largely by immobile fortress divisions, and lacked the necessary ability for local and large scale counter attacks which later campaigns showed were the key to holding any defended line. For example, two years later while conducting an assault river crossing from hasty positions, the Germans punched through over 10 km of French fortifications in a single day. In 1938 the Germans would have penetrated the Czech line in numerous locations in short order.

The Czechs knew this, and their original war-plans assumed they would only face a quarter or so of the overall German strength, with France diverting the bulk of the German army west. Unfortunately for the Czechs, Hitler intended to throw nearly everything at Czechoslovakia and trust in French inaction based on his own analysis of the French political and military situation. As with Poland, this would have been a successful gamble.

>And who would win in pic related?
The Germans would crush the opposition. They were in fact in a much better shape than they were in 1940, relative to the opposition. The French military was in an abject state in 1938; compared to the five well-organized armored divisions Germany possessed in October of 1938, France had. . . none, except for two under-strength brigades of light tanks without most of their heavier equipment. France's best tank and mainstay of the BOF, the S-35, had only a few dozen units completed at the time; Guderian assessed French armored formations as only having firepower fit for reconnaissance units. [Horne, "To Lose a Battle, p.118] A big contrast to the BOF where the French actually outgunned the Germans. Britain's strength was completely negligible in 1938, as it was estimated they could only deploy two divisions to France in the event of a war (they deployed 13 in the 1940 BOF).

France's real armored divisions did not come into existence until January of 1940, and that was far from their only improvement. Per Jackson's "The Fall of France": in 1938 France produced 400 tanks, in 1939 they produced 1,000 (more than all the tanks produced in the years 1934-1937 combined), and in 1940 production was set to double again, with 850 tanks produced in the first six months before the battle ended production. By contrast the Germans only acquired 244 Pz 35 light tanks from Czech stocks, and had captured or built a further 237 Pz 38. France also had six armored divisions now, and while they were still organizationally deficient compared to their German counterparts, they were miles above the small tank units that were being parceled as far as usefulness went.

Basically, in every area of military production from 1939 on the Allies were outproducing Nazi Germany. It was in their interest to wait as long as possible for a war to happen. If they couldn't win in 1940, they were not going to win in 1938.

>All of Czechoslovakia's notable industry was in the border regions.
Oh yeah, glass making, that's what armies run on...

>For example, two years later while conducting an assault river crossing from hasty positions, the Germans punched through over 10 km of French fortifications in a single day
Germans in 1938 did not had the same level of mobilization and mechanization nor did they had proper access to oil.

Your map is wrong. Poland was supporting Germany and threatened to declare war on the USSR if they sent planes to help the Czechs.

>Could Czechs win?
No, not without French and Eternal Anglos

>How long would it last?
Ranging from several weeks to few months. It's impossible to say.

>Would it be worth it for the G*rmans?
No. Loses would probably be high on both sides, key industry in czechoslovakia would get destroyed as well as most of the military equipment and most importantly tanks. Also, anti-g*rman sentiment and outright hate would be much much higher in this scenario than it was in real life.

>Would this have any impact on the rest of the war?
Yes, definitely. Planned war with the Allies would have to wait until G*rmans recover from the war and until they build more tanks. On the other hand, the war would give them valuable experiences.

>Poland was supporting Germany and threatened to declare war on the USSR if they sent planes to help the Czechs.
What the fuck do you smoke?

He's right.

If the Reds came to Czechoslovakia to "help" and went through Poland, their army wouldn't leave any of those countries.

Poles were supporting Germany since they saw Munich agreement and occupation of Czechoslovakia as an easy way of getting some land, which they got.