Why do so many here deny the historical fact that its the Holocaust?

I don't deny the Holocaust. I do, however, think that the death toll may be exaggerated.

And I think discussion of the Holocaust is overly prominent in discussion of World War II. In fact, it's the *only* thing most people know about World War II. In a world that's almost historically illiterate, EVERYBODY knows all about the Holocaust. This is because hyping the Holocaust serves very obvious political goals.

40-50 million people died in WWII, most of them civilians. Of these, only 3-6 million were Jews. But the Jews, increasingly, are the only ones remembered.

Veeky Forums has become a giant pissing contest between /pol/ and lefty/pol/ and your better just trying to ignore it user.

>I do, however, think that the death toll may be exaggerated.
Based on what?

Most people deny it because they hate Jews. It really is that simple.

>Oy vey you anti-semite, are you denying the 6 million? I can't believe there are people on this board who don't beleive in the 11 million! Didn't you read Rabbi David's article on the horrors of the 20 million?

Who are you quoting?

Jews and leftists have been milking it for 70 years and it gets annoying to the point where some just saying it didn't happen just to piss them off.

t. have LARPed as a Holocaust denier to my mother for the past four years because she won't shut up about it even though I don't believe a fucking word coming out of my own mouth.

yes,people always talk about all the jews who died but no one would talk about the damn masons they killed

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They do, quit being a bitch.

>all historians recognize the Holocaust as a historical fact
>some neckbeard Stormfags on an image board tell me that it's all a "Jewish conspiracy" and if i believe it I'm a "soyboy kike shill"
Who should I believe?

I WANT MORE MASON HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE DAMNIT

1. A lot of people are anti-semitic for justifiable reasons but for some reason think anti-semitism correlates to the holocaust. They don't realize it's okay to dislike Jews even if the holocaust happened, noteworthy anti-semites such as Ford did not support the holocaust.

2. /pol/ made a bunch of infographics with false sources and "hidden" info that's actually just public and a lot of people who aren't knowledgeable on the holocaust get tricked by them.

The holocaust happened. It was an atrocity.
I'm still not fond of Jewish culture and people.

Shalom, brother.
denying? Who's denying? The only thing we are denying are the numbers... far too small.
I think we should all support israel and give them all our monies as reparations.

No bodies
Many camps destroyed with no actual evidence of their existence
Numerous eyewitnesses either Jews or Germans with something to lose
Logistical issues
Despite the Nazi's often meticulous manner of documenting everything limited paper documentation
Nazis originally assisted Jews in emigrating to Palestine

take your pick

>Numerous eyewitnesses [...] Germans with something to lose

>Oh shit I'm going to be hanged in a few hours, I can't tell everyone how the holocaust didn't happen!

>Nazis originally assisted Jews in emigrating to Palestine

You mean told the German ones to leave Germany. When they were transporting the Polish and non-German ones, plus the German ones who stayed, transportation became too much of a hassle so it was deemed easier to just kill them.

>Despite the Nazi's often meticulous manner of documenting everything limited paper documentation
This is a meme and a lot of documents were destroyed.
>Many camps destroyed with no actual evidence of their existence
Except, you know, German reports, their ruins and eyewitness accounts. Even deniers don't deny the existence of Treblinka or Sobibor, they just say those were transit camps and the Jews were transported to the East. Of course they can't explain what happened with them and when they are.
>Numerous eyewitnesses either Jews or Germans with something to lose
And Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Czechs, Russians, Americans, French, Britons...
>Nazis originally assisted Jews in emigrating to Palestine
Purely for economic reasons.

You're getting there

>In a world that's almost historically illiterate, EVERYBODY knows all about the Holocaust.
Do you just say things without doing any research?

He's obviously talking about the west. No one cares about bug people

People in the West mostly know more about WWII than just the Holocaust.

You'd think Eastern Europe would be higher

its a pretty good quote though

18% of Eastern European people being so clueless they don't even know what the holocaust is doesn't really surprise me since that would include the dregs of society

Please tell me this is not real. You do realize you are making your mother regret not aborting you just by being who you are, right?

>I do, however, think that the death toll may be exaggerated.
ok, why?

>A lot of people are anti-semitic for justifiable reasons
What reasons justify hatred of millions of people you've never met?

Because it makes their idea of an ethnostate look bad.

Because Veeky Forums is a magnet for /pol/tards trying to "redpill" people.

Really wish the mods were more ban happy.

>Ad hominems
Off'course, what holohoax believer doesn't do this?

The real question is why people still believe that it happened when
1. There is almost no evidence for outside of the highly unreliable eyewitnesses and german testimonies.
2. The insane amount of lies that have been told about the holocaust since 1945 and are still told today.
3. The scientific and documention evidence that disproves the holocaust.
4. The anti-holocaust denying laws that, besides the fact that they are clear violation of human rights(And the european court of human rights agree with this), flies in the face scientific enquiry.

1. There's literal video evidence of Germans and local sympathetic militias executing people
2. You can beleive the Holocaust happened and not buy every single insane memoir about electric swimming pools and Holocausters
3. Is heavily dubious, even more so than the claims they're trying to disprove (A fucking BA telling people he knows engineering)
4. No one that wants to revise the holocaust has ever been even remotely qualified to do so anyway and more often than not has ties to regimes or organizations with a vested interest in shitting on Jews or Israel and are therefore just as biased in their interpretations as the Holocaust grief museums

>1. There is almost no evidence for outside of the highly unreliable eyewitnesses and german testimonies.
False, it is one of the most documented events in history. We have testimonies, confessions, documents, forensic, photographic, and demographic evidence.
Daily reminder:
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
imgur.com/gallery/725A7

>2. The insane amount of lies that have been told about the holocaust since 1945 and are still told today.
What lies have academic historians said?
inb4 my shitty high school education said some dumb shit therefore all academic research is invalidated

>3. The scientific and documention evidence that disproves the holocaust.
Non existent. Feel free to post it. Let me guess, you're going to post the leuchter report.

>4. The anti-holocaust denying laws that, besides the fact that they are clear violation of human rights(And the european court of human rights agree with this), flies in the face scientific enquiry.
Holocaust denial isn't banned in the US and deniers are still unable to come up with a single piece of compelling evidence. The only thing those laws do is give retards the feel of being martyrs.

There are gas chambers blueprints, documentation regarding the genocide, forensic studies, demographic studies, photogtaphical evidence and testimonies which are unreliable because they don't fit your narrative.
If all that doesn't count as evidence, literally no genocide in history could be proved.

>live in country where holocaust denial is punishable
>"Hello, Schlomo Wiesenthal center here, I would like to ask you if you are a holocaust denier"

>He thinks that's how the legislation works

>False, it is one of the most documented events in history. We have testimonies, confessions, documents, forensic, photographic, and demographic evidence.
I have seen many of these so called documents. The holohoax believers like claim they all prove a delibirate genocide when in fact they prove nothing at all and don't mention exeterminations at all. Forensic evidence is the main point AGAINST the holocaust, or at least the gas chambers. No doubt you are refering to the Markiewicz investigation when in fact that fails to prove anything as his results are too low. There is no photographic evidence of genocide and photos have actually been used to debunk Holocaust lies in the past.
>What lies have academic historians said?
The history of the holocaust is saturated with confirmed lies. Denying this would be beyond stupid.
>Non existent.
Leuchter, Rudolph, ball. You can not disprove their findings by attacking their character, which all I have the holocaust believers do.

Who fucking cares about her opinion lol

>Unironically citing Leuchter

>gas chambers would explode because HCN is explosive!
>I have found cyanide there, but doesn't count because reasons!
>There was no ventilation in chambers, cuz I say so!

Really?

>Holocaust denial isn't banned in the US
Leuchter is an american, what happened to him? Don't ever use this arguement again.
>The only thing those laws do is give retards the feel of being martyrs
They have sent people to prison for merely asking for evidence. I'll repeat that they sent people to prison for merely asking for evidence. These laws effectively silence any opposition and that's what they are designed to do. You don't need to be a holocaust denier to see how wrong this is.

>There are gas chambers blueprints
There aren't, there are only blueprints of morgues.

>documentation regarding the genocide, forensic studies, demographic studies, photogtaphical evidence
See above.

>testimonies which are unreliable
In the court of science eye witness testimonies are the lowest form of evidence and are always dismissed for being too unreliable.

What confirmed lies? What photographs have been used to debunk the Holocaust?

Leuchter's results were confirmed by 2 other studies. They are science fact.

>>gas chambers would explode because HCN is explosive!
HCN is explosive, a simple google search would tell you that.

>Leuchter
>THE COURT: How do you function as an engineer if you don't have an engineering degree?
>THE WITNESS: Well, I would question, Your Honour, what an engineering degree is. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree and I have the required background training both on the college level and in the field to perform my function as an engineer.
>THE COURT: Who determines that? You?
A genius ahead of his time clearly
>HCN is explosive, a simple google search would tell you that
So is fucking petrol and yet the engine in your car dosen't explode and kill you when you turn the key

Blame the influx of /pol/tards.

Art. 457-3 Code Pénal, Luxembourg

>What confirmed lies?
You might want to do some research yourself then. One example is the "CO2" at majadanek.

>What photographs have been used to debunk the Holocaust?
Aerial photographs made by Americans during the war completely debunked that myth that the Auschwitz krematoriums were constantly spewing smoke for instance.

>Leuchter's results were confirmed by 2 other studies.
I haven't disputed the results, work on your reading comprehension.

>HCN is explosive, a simple google search would tell you that.
That's correct as am I for making fun of Leuchter who assumed that the gas in chambers would be explosive. Can you solve the riddle?

>I have seen many of these so called documents. The holohoax believers like claim they all prove a delibirate genocide when in fact they prove nothing
Basically every historian disagrees. The evidence is overwhelming, and simply stating "they prove nothing" is not an argument. You have about 6 million jews disappearing from the face of the earth and mountains of evidence proving genocide, whether you like it or not.

>No doubt you are refering to the Markiewicz investigation when in fact that fails to prove anything as his results are too low.
Again, simply stating a disagreement is not an argument. Especially when we are weighting a neckbeard in a chinese cartoon forum against a forensic institute.

>There is no photographic evidence of genocide and photos have actually been used to debunk Holocaust lies in the past.
False (in fact the links above have photographic evidence) and false.

>The history of the holocaust is saturated with confirmed lies. Denying this would be beyond stupid.
You seem to be unable to post a lie academic historians have said.

>Leuchter, Rudolph, ball. You can not disprove their findings by attacking their character, which all I have the holocaust believers do.
A BA in arts that doesn't know shit about chemistry takes a bunch of bricks subjected to rain for decades, has them pulverized, performs the wrong tests on it, is unaware of the difference in concentration needed to kill humans and lice, and has his conclusions refuted when a proper forensic team does the research. This is the """evidence""" deniers cling to. I WANT TO BELIEVE.

>Leuchter's results were confirmed by 2 other studies. They are science fact.
Maybe in stormfag's magical world.

>Attacking character and credentials
I wouldn't have expected any different.

>So is fucking petrol and yet the engine in your car dosen't explode and kill you when you turn the key
And yet when your car catches fire, from an accident for instance, you'll probably run the fuck away from it.

>I haven't disputed the results, work on your reading comprehension.
Then you agree with them and thus come to the logical conclusion that there were no gaschambers at auschwitz, other than delousing chambers offcourse.

Dosen't carry a jail term for privately denying the holocaust either, needs to be in media
Of course I'm going to attack his credentials, he's woefully unqualified, I've got a BA too and if I say the Holocaust is totally real because fuck you here's some numbers I highly doubt you're suddenly going to change your mind and believe me

Try again, burgerino. Results/=Conclusions.

ITS THE NUTSHACK

>The evidence is overwhelming, and simply stating "they prove nothing" is not an argument.
But that is not I or holocaust deniers do, they merely point out that these documents you like to cite as proof never directly point to an extermination of the jews.

>Again, simply stating a disagreement is not an argument
But that is not what I'm doing again. His results are so low that can be considered by science as 0. Don't take my word for it, ask Rudolph, a scientist.

>in fact the links above have photographic evidence
Well that's a lie, show me one image of jews being gassed.

>You seem to be unable to post a lie academic historians have said.
See above.

>A BA in...
Again, attacking character and credentials, plus ignoring other studies. Nothing new here.

>Maybe in stormfag's magical world.
Attacking character once again.

>No bodies
Okay, you won't mind explaining this images for me

>Of course I'm going to attack his credentials
He actually has all the credentials he needs, you pruposefully ignore them and focus on his BA. And none of this disprove the fact that his results were confirmed by others as I have already mentionned.

>The anti-holocaust denying laws that, besides the fact that they are clear violation of human rights(And the european court of human rights agree with this), flies in the face scientific enquiry.
These laws are much younger than Holocaust denial itself. Most of them were made in the late 1980s or 1990s, as a counter-measure against the rise of white supremacism in a European generation which had no experience of the war. During most of post-war history — more than 40 years — Holocaust denial has been legal in all countries of the world. It was only in 1990 that the French government enacted the Gayssot Law, which declares questioning the scale or existence of any crimes against humanity a crime. This was the first European statute explicitly outlawing denial of the Holocaust.
Most of these laws outlaw denial of all crimes against humanity, not limited to the ones committed by the Axis of World War II, but also explicitly (as in Poland, Slovakia, or the Czech Republic) or implicitly including crimes by Communist regimes, and other crimes often emphasized by Holocaust deniers. Only in Romania is the law limited to Holocaust denial. The Israeli law is the only one of these laws actually mentioning Jews.

>He actually has all the credentials he needs
???

Then clearly no results would persuade and you are thus completely removed from discussion.

The results of shit doesn't mean he's correct, for all you fucking know he took bricks from a site 3 meters away from his own house because he didn't document his taking of them from the camp itself you fucking idiot, it's just as dubious as the evidence like witness testimonies you purport to oppose for being bullshit

>Leuchter, Rudolph, ball.
Holocaust denialists often point to the Armleuchter[note 4] Leuchter Report as 'evidence' that the gas chambers were not gas chambers.[79] The Leuchter report found that significantly fewer cyanide traces were found in the gas chambers than in the delousing chambers, and concluded that this somehow proves that the gas chambers never contained HCN. This conclusion is based on incorrect assumptions about the concentrations of HCN needed to kill lice and to kill humans. In delousing clothes, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in 15 minutes or so. Not only were the concentrations themselves higher, but the length of contact was much greater. Thus, the walls of the delousing facility should have a much greater concentration of detectable cyanide today, which is what the original Leuchter report and the Polish report both confirm.[80] The main problem with Leuchter's original report is a flaw in the major premise: that cyanide traces should be found in the homicidal gas chambers at a comparable rate as found in the delousing chambers. This is completely backward to reality, and it plays on a misunderstanding that people have about HCN. The average person would believe that it would take as much, if not more, HCN to kill a person than to kill a lice or flea. However, this is not the case. In fact, a much lower concentration of HCN is needed to kill any warm-blooded animal as opposed to cold-blooded. The team found significant HCN residue in delousing facility samples, while next to none in alleged "gas chamber" samples. If the gas chambers were used for something other than murder, no as in zero cyanide should have been found there. Not even the smallest trace amount. The fact that Leuchter did find trace amounts of cyanide in the gas chamber walls confirms, contrary to the Leuchter's report's conclusions, that they were, in fact, gas chambers.

Who was sent to prison just for asking for evidence?

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user, you know Freddy found cyanide there? He just said "doesn't count".

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>Most of them were made in the late 1980s or 1990s, as a counter-measure against the rise of white supremacism in a European generation
Lies, they were made because revisionists were figuring out the truth. Holocaust experts were losing ground quickly and were even forced to admit certain gas chambers were never gas chambers at all(on record) but are now again freely able to claim these exact same gas chambers they denied the existance of in the 80s.

And even if it were true what you claim, it is still a clear infringment of human rigths. As I have already said, the european court of human rights agrees with me on this.

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I'll say it again, his results were confirmed by 2 other studies. Offoucrse the holocaust believers would not allow another study to be made.

>forced to admit certain gas chambers were never gas chambers at all(on record)

[Citation needed]

What 2 other studies?

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Well apparently they allowed fucking 3 to be made so they can't be that good at their job can they? Guess we'll ignore that troublesome Markiewicz report though, because that disagrees with your opinion

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>gish gallop

>Claims there are no bodies
>Posts pictures of hundreds of bodies found in the Concentration Camps and elsewhere
>Somehow this is gish gallop

>This conclusion is based on incorrect assumptions about the concentrations of HCN needed to kill lice and to kill humans
Not even going to read the rest as I've heard it all before. First off it is true that lice are harder to kill, with lice requiring around 48 times more. However the difference in HCN found in gas chambers and delousing chambers isn't anywhere that number but actually in the thousands.
Secondly considering the amount of people that are supposedly jammed in the chambers as well as the speed at which they died(under 10 minutes) require a great deal of zyklon B. This is confirmed by american gas chambers that use it, of which Leuchter is an expert.
Finally, the results of these studies are so low that they amount to 0. HCN found must be greater than 1mg/kg, you will find numbers lower than this in any old building nowhere near zyklon B, as proven by Rudolph. Offcourse Holocaust believers completely ignore this fact.

If you don't want to see the bodies, don't claim there were "no bodies".

A german lawyer, forgot his name. I'd have to look it up.

People like to rebel. They like to believe in rebellious movements that sound intelligent. It's why lefties like Che and it's why racists like to deny the Holocaust.

Probably because it's the part that most work was put into to deny it happened.

And the Holocaust wasn't just jews. 11 million dead was the figure given for the total toll of the Holocaust.

I've already mentionned them numerously in this thread. Do some research.

Actually you'd need less HCN concentration than normal in a crowded indoor space, never try and do a genocide kid, you aren't qualified

>Do some research.
Not an argument.